SR540Beaver

Barry, Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for cracker barrel! You were right about our course director/SM and SPL from your neck of the woods....GREAT guys! Speaking of the "Beav", our patrol yell the second weekend was, "Gee Wally". The first weekend was, "Chew or Die". SR540Beaver (formerly kwc57)

Fellow Scouters, the good folks at Scouter.com have graciously granted my request to change my User ID. I completed my Wood Badge experience yesterday and in order to celebrate my "advancement", I asked to now be known as SR540Beaver. I want to express my appreciation to the moderator for making my name change possible. For a while, I will be signing my posts with "formerly kwc57". Wood Badge was a wonderful experience I will cherish forever. With apologies to my friend Barry (Eagledad) for stealing his line.....I love this scouting stuff! I used to be a Beaver, and a good old Beaver too... SR540Beaver (formerly kwc57)(This message has been edited by SR540Beaver)

We had tables at three different schools for their open houses the day before school started. We had the table covered with patches, model rockets, pine cars, etc. We even ahd a Coleman stove set up with a laptop inside it playing a slideshow of Pack activities and campouts. We had flyers with our Rally/Pack Meeting date and time to hand out. We signed up 18 boys at our rally and have had 3 to 5 more sign up since then. We don't have a good head count yet of returning boys, but we believe we will be over 50 boys total when all is said and done. All in all, a very successful effort.

My uniform and my son's are right on the money. What is the purpose of a uniform if it isn't "uniform"? My pet peeve is the World Crest. Working from memory, the World Crest is supposed to be placed midway between the shoulder seam and the top of the left pocket and centered over the pocket. In most cases, that places it right below the point of the lapel. I don't know if it looks funny there to some people or what, but they end up placing it and inch or two above their pocket. Wrong! Another pet peeve is the trained patch. Geez people, look at the insignia guide, it isn't rocket science. OK, I guess I have a lot of pet peeves. Because my next one is the Webelos colors. The proper placement is pinned just below the US Flag. Yes, it cover up the other patches on the sleeve, but that is the regulation. Most boys pin it on the very end of their sleeve where it is flapping against their elbow so their other patches will show. The last one I'll mention is spacing. Regs call for the patches to bump edge to edge. A lot of people want to space them all the way down the sleeve. Just read the insignia guide, look at the pictures, sew accordingly and you too can be "uniformed"!!

NJ, Bill Safire was on Meet the Press this weekend. He sees the Clinton/Clark thing as a very complex Machavellian scheme by the Clintons. He thinks they are in the background pulling all the strings. They want Clark to knock out all the other Dems, lose to Bush and set the stage for Hillary to run in 2008 against a non-incumbant Republican so she can keep her promise not to give up her Senate seat. The Clinton's are very intelligent, but I think the pundits are giving them too much credit to be able to pull something like this off and make it work. As much as the conservative pundits like to rail against Hillary and dismiss her, I think she does make them shake in their boots at the prospect of her running against Bush. Keep in mind that the vote in 2000 was split virtually 50/50. They know that there are just as many "liberals" out there as "conservatives" and nothing is a lock.

FOG: Also, if you put a razor sharp crease in a pair of zip off legs, you'll ruin the zippers. True enough. But since only about one in a thousand bother to put a crease in their pants, it does not affect too many scouters. BTW, the temps have gotten cooler in the past week and I go back to Wood Badge this Thursday night. I broke down and coughed up $45 at the Scout Shop for a pair of long pants. If I'd acted earlier, I'd have ordered long rise over the internet. The pants off of the rack at the Scout Shop fit like hiphuggers on me. They only carry one cut and one fabric at the shop. I took them to the alteration shop to have them hemmed. I resisted the temptation to have zippered legs in them since I already have a pair or shorts. I'll just add the weight of an extra pair of pants to my backpack.

If you'll think back to other threads, you'll remember that we have been told a number of times that we are NOT representatives of the BSA. Only professional scouters can be representatives. So her deeds or misdeeds should not be considered a reflection on the BSA.

I think you are right that Clark puts a little fear into the Republicans. What really has them scared is Hillary Clinton running. It has been discussed repeatedly by the right wing pundits for months. They luagh it off, but I think the thought really has them shaking in their boots. One note on Clark and the Republicans going after him. I find it amusing that the conservative pundits like to insult the celebrities who speak out and really push supporting the troops 200%, unless it is a celebrity like Charlton Heston or Dennis miller or a General who runs as a Democrat. All of a sudden a celebrity is to be praised for his wisdom and the soldier is considered a low life. Amusing! By the way, I'm an Independent. I get to laugh at both sides.

FOG said, "I haven't seen any Cub Scout swelling with pride when they put on a tan shirt. It seems to be, "Ho hum. Mom bought me a new shirt." You obviously don't know the boys in our pack.

The change in uniform still is a significant step....it just comes a little earlier. Crossing over to a troop is significant in and of itself.

I think it should be regulated to some degree. When time and space might be at a premium, disposable cooking bags should be acceptable. Cooking the old fashioned way needs to be taught and learned and used the majority of the time though. My son and I went camping on vacation this summer. Since we camp the old fashioned way....a tent instead of an RV, we couldn't pop a bag of popcorn in a microwave. We fired up the old coleman stove, poured some oil in a pan and popped the corn. Washed the pot after we were done. We sit by the campfire and ate it instead of watching a video tape on a color TV under an air condtioner. It was some of the best popcorn we've ever shared. That being said, I'm one of those people who find setting up camp for one night a waste of my time. It isn't worth the hassle to put a tent up, roll out the bags, set up the stove, dirty the dishes, etc. one evening and then pack it all up the next morning. It has to be at least two nights to make it worth my while. If I were only going to be there one night, I'd opt for quick and easy disposable bags for cooking in the fire.(This message has been edited by kwc57)

Try this out...... While sitting in a chair, make clockwise circles with your right foot. While doing this, draw the number "6" in the air with your right hand. Your foot will change direction. NOW EXPLAIN THAT ONE!!

Boy, so many things can happen over the next year. It is really anyone's guess. Keep in mind that it was a virtual dead heat between Bush and Gore. Many people like to think that we live in a predominantly "conservative" (I really dislike labels) nation now. That is kind of hard to swallow when the last vote was 50/50. Bush's numbers shot up as a result of 9/11 and the people rallying behind him. I suspect the people would have rallyed behind any man who was president after an event like 9/11. His numbers have been steadily dropping. If the war continues on for a long time, soldiers keep dying after we claimed the military action to be over and the economy does not get any better, then Bush II could be a replay of Bush I's reelection bid. Nothing is a lock. Wesley Clark has got in late, but he does not carry the political baggage that the other Dem candidates do. He graduated 1st in his class at Westpoint, is a decorated VietNam vet complete with purple heart, a general and was commander of Nato. He is intelligent, has great credentials and is a fresh face. Time will tell if he can give Bush a run for his money. Ask me in about 6 months who I think will win. By the way, you called me out of the shadows. I follow politics big time, but never try to show it here.

I thought everyone knew that the smartest, best looking, most talented, funniest people in the world are left handed........just like me!

Dsteele, Technically yes......they would be official? Or did you really mean no? Yes, someone would call you on it, the uniform police are out there and just waiting for such an occurance. Bob, I have no doubt you have the correct scoop on this. However, WHERE do you come up with all this information that no one else seems privy to? How in the world did you know that the BSA considered doing this and scrapped it based on the military's findings? My son has a number of pants of various colors that zip off that he has worn out and the color has remained consistent between the top and bottom.

Getting to help organize the troops for the World Jamboree is a far sight better than being taken out behind the scout hut and shot!

In the many discussions on uniform pants, I think I have mentioned my desired improvements before. One of them was to have one pair of pants with zip on/off legs. It would be much cheaper than buying two pairs of pants and cut down on the amout of clothing you would have to take to camp. If it gets hot, zip the legs off. If it gets cool, zip the legs on. No need to run to the camp site and change in the tent. Now my question. During the first weekend of Wood Badge, one of the ladies had scout pants with zip on/off legs. Real official scout pants. She bought a pair and took to an alteration shop who cut the legs off and installed a zipper for her. The shorts half have an outer flap to hide the zipper and an inner flap to keep the zipper from runbbing your leg. The length is the same as regulation shorts and the flap just looks like the normal hem. The alteration shop is only a mile from my house. The question is this, would these modified shorts be considered part of the "official" uniform?

fscouter, It all depends on whether you are on the clock or salaried. I get paid the same if I'm late or leave early. Of course, when the job calls for it I answer the phone in the middle of the night and work an occasional Saturday. No overtime though, which is a bummer. Just yanking your chain!

A big simmering pot of pinto beans seasoned with hamhock. Fried potatoes, sweet cornbread and a big slice of red onion. Heaven! My dad used to mow the widow lady next door's lawn and she would send over a pot of beans or a pie from time to time. Her beans were different from everyone else's. I never got her recipe, but she did something to it to give the beans just a hint of sweetness. I've heard rumors that she put a can of Coke in them. I've experimented with sugar, but it was not the same.

Tent pads! We had 3 inches of rainwater run thru our campsite two nights in a row at Webelos resident camp this summer and soak every tent inside. Nine and ten year old boys (many away from parents for the first time) having to sleep in wet bags really dampened (pun intended) their spirits for camping. The campsite had a road above the site with a hill on the other side of the road. Directly behind our site was a creek. The water had nowhere to go but thru camp. Why they built a campsite there is beyond me. But a number of various sized pads of chat gravel held in by railroad ties sure would have made for a more pleasant experience for cubs.....or anyone. In fact, when I return for the second weekend of Wood Badge, one of the projects will be to put railroad ties and rock around the SM hut (pavilion) in this campsite as it stays to muddy around it to use it.

Our pack pulls boys from three different schools. It is not a problem for us since all three schools are in the same school district and have the same schedule. We rotate our pack meetings between all three schools. A side note is that the district had kept trying to start a new pack at my son's school the past several years. Each time, they did not get enough boys to sign up to start a viable pack. The boys who signed up went to the pack that had kids from the original two schools. After several years of this, the majority of the boys in the pack are now from my son's school where we didn't have enough to establish a pack.

NJ, The mission statement of the BSA is, "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." My point is that making ethical choices involves being able to discern what is right and what is wrong. Alcoholic beverages have no place at scouting events and is covered in the rules. Cooking sherry is not an alcoholic beverage, but is a food flavoring. The scouts and scouters should be able to discern the difference and make the proper ethical choice as to which one can be brought to events and which one can't.

A little off topic, but that kind of happens all the time here. I have heard on occasion of wine tasting parties as scout fundraisers. Now to me, that is crossing the line. It is relating the scouting movement with the consumption of alcohol. Why would adults hold a fund raising event that can not be attended by the scouts? Isn't the idea of a fundraiser for the boys to earn money and pay their OWN way in scouting?

Just last night I posted a message referring to Pharisees in the "Whose Troop Is It" thread. Here I go again. Mark 2:23 One sabbath he was going through the grainfields; and as they made their way his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the sabbath?" 25 And he said to them, "Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him: 26 how he entered the house of God, when Abi'athar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those who were with him?" 27 And he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath." Alcohol is forbidden at campouts. You might include cooking sherry in the letter of the law. I doubt if it would be considered as such in the spirit of the law. Our job is to train young men in leadership and making ethical choices. I would suggest that the best way to teach them to make ethical choices is not to give them a list of "do nots" so much as teach them the ability to look at a set of circumstances and come to a sound rational judgement based on the merits of the issue. They need to be able to discern that a bottle of wine is off limits and a bottle of cooking sherry is not the same thing. Without a doubt you will teach your 15 year old son not to have sex with his girlfriend, but are you going to teach him to equate kissing her as the same thing because it is sexual too?

I just had to throw my two cents in earlier. Now I do want to make one more comment on a more serious note. There are two sides to this issue and they have been expressed in clear terms. Bob is right in that we serve the troop and we do not "own" it. Most of us get into scouting because we believe in the program and process, because we want to help develop boys into fine men and because we are just big kids who think scouting is fun too. Scouting is like anything else. We grow as we do it. Our understanding increases. Our committment deepens. We got into it with a little knowledge and might have seen it is "my" troop and somewhere along the way realized that it is the boys troop and we are facilitators to them. So yes, we serve the troop and we don't own it. Now, having said that, from our beginning as a scouter until we gain a deeper insight with experience; we have always had a vested interest in the troop. Otherwise, why would we have registered as a volunteer in the program. It is that vested interest we have in the troop that let's us include ourselves when we speak of "my" troop. I think Bob understands that and I think those that are arguing the fine points with him understand exactly what he is saying too. There are folks on here who enjoy a good peeing contest from time to time. Pardon my French. I think Bob's point would make a good Scout Master minute at a roundtable, Wood Badge, leader cracker barrel, etc. A reminder that would be a little nugget of thought for scouters to chew on.....we serve the troop, we don't own it. Remember that each time you use the word "my" so you don't get the urge to start feeling big headed. Then, leave it at that. Just as important as the words you use is how you present the words. Sometimes we become Pharisees on this board and nitpick the minute detail. Bob is right, we don't own the troop. Others are right in that we have a vested interest in "my" troop. Either way you choose to say it, the vast majority will know what you mean.(This message has been edited by kwc57)