SR540Beaver

Well crud!!! According to the charts, I should be 7'8" for my weight! I do need to get in better shape for when my son crosses over to a troop next February. A number of our Cubs have crossed to a small troop that we went to camporee with this past spring. The SM told me that the boys really didn't care for the type camping we were doing at camporee as they are more of a backpacking and hiking troop. I remember thinking.....oh, GREAT! I am overweight and have a lot of hereditary joint problems as well as being an insulin dependent diabetic. That all sounds rather bad, but I'm actually in pretty good general health according to my doctor and my annual physicals. I look forward to Boy Scouts and sharing the experience with my son. However, I don't want to be the fly in the ointment stoping the hike every 30 minutes to check my blood sugar and eat a snack to cover the physical activity.

Not involve the youth? What she meant was she didn't involve them on the front side, but did on the backside when she managed to get their crew shut down. I knew what the BSA's stand was on atheist and homosexuals when my son joined Cubs last September and when I joined as a Scouter this April. If I was against their stand, we wouldn't have joined. Or we would have joined and I'd bite the bullet knowing full well that these are the membership standards and I had to live with them. My best friend from college is gay. I have a family member who is gay. I love them both and care for them deeply. I don't like or agree with their lifestyle, but I do love them. I fully support the BSA's policy and will abide by it. If I didn't, I would leave the organization. I would not make a personal stand and knock a bunch of good kids out of the program in the process. That is just plain selfish.

Doocs like to specialize. It is almost like a union now. You know, you shut down the assembly line half a day because a light bulb is out and only one person in the building has a job description for changing light bulbs. My old family doctor delivered me as a baby. He mended all of my cuts and scrapes and he took my tonsils out. He did it all. General medical stuff, ob/gyn, surgery, etc. When I go to the doctor and complain about a mole...go see the dermatologist. When I complain about plumbing pressure....go see the urologist. When I complain about foot pains.....go see the podiatrist. You get the picture. I often want to ask why I bothered coming to see them in the first place. I'd cut the middle man out all together except the insurance company requires that you have a do nothing primary care physician who is the only one authorized to send you to the specialist. Something stinks and it ain't my feet. Well, maybe......but something else stinks too.

Animal House Vacation Christmas Vacation Blues Brothers Planes, Trains and Automobiles The Jerk Something About Mary Say it Isn't So Shallow Hal Caddy Shack Pee Wee's Big Adventure Mr Mom and a host of others

NOW I understand why all of those Scouters wear their pants so low under their guts.......they can't pull them any higher! I can sympathize FOG. I'm 6'2" and wear a 42 waist. Most clothing manufacturers thing that anyone with a waist larger than 38 has a 28 or 30 inch inseam. I really don't like looking like I'm going to a flood. I is hard to find pants long enough or with a high enough rise unless you are built like a beanpole. You can find the same style of pants with a 32 waist and a 38 length. Go figure! Sadly, this problem isn't just with the BSA.

Sparkie, No problem. I'm glad to see a few responses. It sounds like a great program and I think troops should make their scouts aware of it. It fits so well into scouting that you could kill two birds with one stone.

dsteele, I'm giving it one more shot. I called the council registrar and she couldn't find anything. She transferred me to our DE who was away from his desk, so I left him a voice mail. I also sent out CM an e-mail asking him to follow up on it. I'm leaving for a week vacation of "real" camping (not RV camping) and will check back into it when I get back. I'm hoping I can hear the crickets at night instead of the hum of RV air conditioners I'll most likely be wedged in between. I'm bracing for the, "oh look, a tent....how quaint" comments! LOL Hopefully with it being August in Oklahoma and school around the corner, the campground won't be too crowded. I'm taking my 10 year old son to the camp ground my family took annual vacations to 30 years ago. It is his first camping trip outside of Webelos. While I will be using a tent, lantern and Coleman stove, our site will have electricity and water in it. Unlike our scout outtings, I will avail myself of the power and bring a radio and especially a fan for the tent at night. I'm proud to be a Scouter, but I ain't stupid!

I've been wondering if my suspension is what is holding up my registration. I turned it in back in April and it is now August and no one in my pack or at the council seems to be able to answer what the status of my registration is. In an attempt to follow the Scout oath I was honest and answered yes to the question with a note that it was for too many speeding tickets in my younger years over 15 years ago. I have not had a ticket since that time. My current record is clean as a whistle. I'd really like to find out as I'm paid for attending Wood Badge in about a month. Already have Basic Training, Leader Specific and CPR/First Aid under my belt with IOLS to come this Fall. Heck, I'm pegged as the Committee Chair for the new year. Sure wish the BSA and the Council would get on the stick and let me know something. The training is useful even if I'm not accepted, but I'd sure like to know something and the Council promises to get back to me and never does.

I don't know if this helps or not, but a quick Google search turned up this statement on a number of troop or council sites. While it does not mention guns specifically, you can read it and see what you think. "Military training and drill are prohibited. Marksmanship, military career experiences, and elementary drill for ceemonies are permitted."

OGE, Extended delay out of any airport is redundant. I'm glad my traveling days are over. I hope. Never say never in this economy. I spent 10 months flying between Oklahoma City and Burlington Vermont each week with a 4 our layover in Chicago O'Hare each way......if flights were on time. No, I have not seen the ad, but am glad there is one. What I'd like to see is BSA run ads on Nick, Cartoon Network and sports programs. It needs to be seen by parents, but it needs to be seen by kids in particular who then pester mom and dad to let them join.

Those dang Texans!!! We Okies are constantly having problems with all of the tall talk our neighbors south of the border like to spout. We are thinking of putting border guards along the Red River to keep them all down there in Baja Oklahoma! And to think, I married one.(This message has been edited by kwc57)

Swordse, Perhaps what you meant is that we are all made in God's image rather than we are all part of God. They sound similar, but in fact are quite different. I'd agree with made in His image, but I have to agree with Rooster about not being part og God.

One note on low profile vs tall profile tents. When you are overweight, middle aged and 6'2", getting dressed (or doing just about anything) is a near impossibility in a low profile tent.

scoutldr, My leaky tent was a new Coleman Outdoorsman tent. Similar in design to the Eureka Timberline. The tent itself held up great in a couple of pretty rugged rain storms. We are talking rain blowing sideways. As stated before, the leak was where the stake tabs were sewn to the bathtub floor. If I'd followed Coleman's instructions and actually sealed those seams, I believe I would have stayed high and dry. Fortunately I was using a Coleman inflatible mattress that is 4 inches thick due to a bad back. I still stayed dry since the top side of the tent didn't leak. Everything on the floor got soaked though.

Swordse, First of all, welcome to the Scouter.com forums! Now, please don't tkae this as a criticism or judgement, because that is certainly not how it is intended. Help me to understand how you can take such a relaxed view on your child's spiritual life? I believe that we as parents have a responsibility to impart our values in our children. We teach them not to steal, not to lie, not to be selfish. We teach them to work and study hard. We teach them to treat others with respect. We teach them to be neat and clean. We do these things because it is what we were taught, because it is "right" and because it makes them good citizens, friends, employees, etc. It is rare to find a parent who would say, "well, I don't steal, but I'll let my child decide on his own which way he wants to go with this". Again, I'm not trying to criticize. To me the spiritual side of life is too important to just leave to chance and I couldn't imagine not trying to lead by example and instill my religious values into my son. He can chose to reject them or search for something different when he has the critical thinking skills to do so. BTW, my son is only 10, not 17. Just interested in your thought process? Thanks! And again, welcome to the forums.

BW, Funny thing is that my tent has a bathtub floor and had only been on one prior (dry) campout when my floor leaked. Again, being here in Oklahoma, I wasn't expecting rain. Shows you how smart I am. I didn't seal the seams as recommended and I believe the water entered where the stake tabs were sewn into the bathtub floor. That has since been remedied, but not tested. You see, I followed the Cub Scout motto of "Do Your Best" instead of the Boy Scout motto of "Be Prepared"! Live and learn.

Silver, Ah, the mysterious groundcloth! So many opinions. From what I have read AND experienced, you don't want to leave a little exposed around the edges. It defeats the whole purpose of a second barrier for the floor. When rain runs down the side of the tent and hits the exposed edge, the water runs between the floor and the groundcloth and gets trapped there. A groundcloth should actually fit an inch or so inside the edge of the tent so the water can run off and soak into the ground. Here in Oklahoma it stays pretty dry in the summer. I've used big pieces of plastic sheeting long enough to provide a front porch into the tent. If it does not rain, it works great. However, this summer at Webelos Resident Camp it rained cats and dogs each night and I had a wet floor in my tent. Of course, the campsite we were given was between a hill and a creek and the whole site was in about 3 inches of water during the storm. Every tent got water in it. But I think you will be happier if you measure and cut a ground cloth to fit just inside the footprint of the tent floor. What do you say guys.....agree or disagree?

Has anyone heard of or participated in the Congressional Award program? BSA is one of their partners. It appears to be quite a challenge, but rewarding. It dovetails nicely with Scouting. Here is their link: http://www.congressionalaward.org/congress/index.htm

NJCub, Ok, if you didn't like my analogy, here is a different one. I'm a Southern Baptist. Years ago, we had a family join our church who were Charismatic. They started promoting their beliefs to others in the church. When told that their views did not reflect Southern Baptist beliefs, they would say, "Oh, we are Baptists, we just believe a little extra!" There were plenty of Charismatic churches around that they could join. Instead, they chose to join our Baptist church and change it to fit their beliefs and desires. Why? They knew what Baptists believed and they knew there were churches out there that supported what they believed. They could have joined one of those other churches and fit right in and been perfectly happy. To this day, I have been dumbfounded that they thought their contrary beliefs would be accepted and supported in a church that belived differently than them. That was between 15 and 20 years ago. They have joined several other Baptist churches since then and continue to move around in search of a Baptist church that will accept their non-Baptist beliefs. They are fighting the tide and the tide keeps winning. Scouting has always viewed homosexuality as immoral and I'm willing to bet they always will. Just because society changes their views over time does not mean that Scouting has to or needs to. The mission and the message is the same as it was when Scouting was founded. As for your government analogy, that is apples and oranges. We have a democratic form of government that is of the people, by the people and for the people. We vote. A private organization is not the same. People have the right to be homosexual if they want. That is their perogative. They do not have the right to be a Scouter under the BSA policies. I would say that the vast majority of parents get their kids involved in Scouting because it is a program closely alligned with their own values and the values they want their children raised with. For the vast majority, that does not include homosexual leaders.

NJCub, With all due respect, how you choose to interpret the Scout Oath and Law as opposed to the folks at National who determine policy really makes little difference. I interpret doing my work in a timely and correct manner to be good enough. Unfortunately, my boss and his boss and his bosses boss all think I should show up each day, Monday thru Friday and be there no later than 8:00 AM and leave no earlier than 5:00 PM. Since it is their company and they are the management, I kind of have to abide by their decisions in order to continue working there and draw a paycheck. I could argue that I could get the job done in 30 hours instead of 40, but I don't think they will see it my way. You said, "Just because the National Executive Committee has the power to interpret the Oath and Law does not mean they are correct." Just who would you have interpret it? Being black is not immoral. Yes times changed and the BSA was integrated because it was wrong and it was the right thing to do. In the BSA's world, being gay IS immoral and defies the "morally straight" point. That probably won't change with time.

FOG, Seeing as how my son is 10 1/2 and just beginning 5th grade and Webelos 2's and can't crossover until next February, I'd be interested in knowing how a boy can make 1st class before he is 11?

Laura, Cub camping is pretty dependent on the Pack's leadership. My son is a Webelos 2 and joined as a Webelos 1 last September. Our Webelos have been on 5 or 6 campouts since we joined. The pack has had a couple of one night campouts. Our Cub Master explained to me that our pack did not campout until he came along. He loves camping and has tried to incorporate it into our activities as much as possible. However, even in the Webelos, there are people who will camp and people who will not camp. Our Webelos campouts consist of about a third of our den and it is basically the same kids each time. Same for pack campouts. Many parents get their kids involved in Cubs with no expectation of camping. They want a fun, clean, wholesome activity for their kids to attend. Many of them have never camped, have no interest in camping, have no camping equipment and are perfectly happy to do the arts and crafts and pass on the camping. My experience so far is that you can tell which ones are planning on crossing over and which ones are planning on packing it in after Webelos. We've already had a number of parents tell us they will be dropping out after Webelos to pursue other interests. I think there has to be a balance. Cubs is supposed to be fun and arts and crafts. But sprinkling in a little camping here and there for those who like it or are willing to try it out is a good thing too. We did break the rules on a Webelos den campout last December. In trying to teach the boys a few camping skills to whet their appetite for what is to come, we let them try to build a one match fire with plenty of adult supervision. So many of the Cub camping rules are restrictive and lend themself to Mom and Dad doing everything for the boys. That is appropriate for Tigers and Wolves, but by Bears and especially for Webelos, we need to start expecting a little help out of them and some learning to take place to interest them in doing the big stuff in a year or two. My feeling is that one single Den/Troop campout prior to crossover is not always enough to entice the boy to make a decision. We need to get them in the woods and doing a little for themselves as much as possible.

acco, From onehour's comment of beeing "too" by the book, I have a feeling that the conflict isn't a disagreement with true Scouting ideals as much as it is a disagreement with Scouters who run the program the way they want to. How about it onehour, is that the case? Don't take this the wrong way, but have you decided to give up because you were catching heat from other Scouters or you were tired of being labeled as a stick in the mud? There is nothing wrong with expecting the program to be run by the book. In fact, when our charter is renewed annually, that is what we are promising to do......deliver the program as it is provided. Now, I can understand if you are being ostracized and belittled by others for expecting quality that it could get you down to the point of "giving up". Could you please elaborate a little for us what made you decide to totally walk away? I say this with a humble heart and as a Scouter friend and mean no offense at all, but what message does it send to your son's to walk away when the going gets tough? I know I don't know the particulars of your case, and that is why I'm asking what was so different between your ideals and those of your co-Scouters?

Something done right is a point of pride and a thing of beauty.....even if to no one else but yourself. Others may have a trophy on their shelf, but each person who has one knows whether they actually earned it or not.

FOG, Just how did you sign up as something different and then change it? I've been all through the profile section and don't see where you can change your user name. How did you sign up under one user name and then change it? Do you mean that you attempted to sign up with a used name and it was rejected so you signed up AGAIN as FOG? You ask me to get it right, tell me what is right and I'll get it down pat. All I can go on is what I saw, and it was posts with a user name of Fat Old Guy, but signed at the bottom as Al Lundy.