SR540Beaver

Guess what I ran across on CNN's website this morning? http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/10/15/hip.girl.scouts.ap/index.html Girl Scouts work to punch up image New program hopes to attract older girls Wednesday, October 15, 2003 Posted: 11:58 AM EDT (1558 GMT) PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Since she was 5, Patti Duncan has faithfully attended weekly Girl Scout meetings, earned badges for taking care of pets and writing to soldiers and sold lots of those famous cookies. But each year, fewer and fewer of the 14-year-old's fellow troop members returned. This year, Patti and her mom couldn't even find four other girls in their large suburban neighborhood to form a troop. "They didn't want to do the badge work and just wanted to hang out with their friends," Patti said. The Girl Scouts have an image problem with older girls. It seems the 91-year-old organization -- known for service, leadership development and, of course, Thin Mints -- becomes uncool with the 11-and-older crowd. Of the Scouts' 2.8 million members ages 5 to 17, 88 percent are younger than 11. That number made it clear to Girl Scout officials that they needed to offer something different to attract -- and retain -- teens like Patti and "tweens" or preteens. After much research, a new program called Studio 2B was launched earlier this year. "Everything was tested with girls," said Harriet Mosatche, senior director of research and program. "It is very much a 'by girls, for girls' approach." Studio 2B doesn't have girls wearing uniforms, earning badges or going to weekly meetings. Instead, girls plan what they want to do when they want to do it, with advice from a college student or young adult. They can earn "rewards" if they want. Patti said she prefers traditional scouting but is interested Studio 2B. The idea of having more control over what the group does, even down to the details of putting on an event, appeals to her. "You plan something that you want to do," she said. "You think it over and decide whether it's a good idea or not." Yoga, manicures The Studio 2B's Web site makes no direct reference to Girl Scouts. Its content is the stuff found in teen magazines: advice columns, polls, guides to good skin care and planning for the future. The optional "rewards" are silver bracelet charms. A mirror, for example, represents the topic of body image; a money bag symbolizes money management. "We're not taking anything away from anyone. We're providing more options," Mosatche said of Studio 2B. "We know that what we have to offer is important for girls that either have never been in Girl Scouts or have dropped out." In southeastern Georgia, the Studio 2B program sponsored a forum that included sessions on travel, rock climbing and fashion design. At a spa night, girls in southwestern Louisiana did yoga, had their hair styled and got manicures. The Cactus-Pine Council in Arizona held pilot Studio 2B events, including an aerobics night and a mall scavenger hunt. The launch event was a night at a swank salon where the girls learned about nail, skin and hair care. "This is what they're already interested in," said Margaret Spicer, project manager of girl programming for the Cactus-Pine Council. The girls were so attentive in the salon, "you could have heard a pin drop." Nights at the spa and the mall are a far cry from the activities that the Girl Scouts have been associated with historically. During World War I, they sold defense bonds. During World War II, they collected scrap metal and grew Victory Gardens. The evolution to Studio 2B, while surprising, is somewhat predictable, said Mary Rothschild, an Arizona State University professor working on a book about the role of Scouting in American womanhood. "Girl Scouting has always tried to both lead girls and keep up with what girls are doing," she said.

Fog, One other thought. To be considered "trained" for SM or ASM, you must take IOLS. An SM or ASM can not attend Wood Badge without having taken IOLS. If IOLS has been dropped from your council's training schedule, you guys have some serious problems and will not be able to wear the trained patch or attend Wood Badge. Not a good thing for the scouts or scouters. Are your volunteer scouters not willing to give their time to devote to being trainers or is your council just not willing to promote training? How large is your council? I can see where a small council may have problems procuring trainers and providing training. My council covers 22 or 24 counties in Oklahoma and runs five different camp properties. Covering a good 1/4th to 1/3rd of the state gives us a large pool of people to pull from.

I'd rattle a few cages at roundtable and at the council office. That might be happeneing in your neck of the woods, but not in mine. My second weekend of Wood Badge was the camping portion. Of course we camped both weekends, but we spent much more time in camp and had to do our own cooking. We were even presented with a few challenges. Each meal we would have a couple of staffers come eat with us. When we went to the quartermaster to get our food draw early one morning, they gave us a heads up that the scoutmaster would be having breakfast with us. We were given ingredients for pancakes. They told us that the scoutmaster liked a fruit topping on his pancakes. Guess what, no fruit was provided with our food draw. We had apples left over and quickly began peeling some. Someone in our patrol had brought cinammon with them. A little heat, sugar, cinammom, apples and a few minutes of time and we had his fruit topping prepared before he showed up. We had to improvise in camp. But, on to your topic. WE have Webelos Outdoor Leader Training, Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills and a course called Outdoor Skills Training. They are all weekend long courses. The Outdoor Skills Training course is an older course that I understand was discontinued, but was so popular in our council that it was and is continued at the council level. It is actually a two weekend course. It covers maps, compass, dutch ovens, knots, woods tools, hiking, backpacking, etc. Don't know why your council isn't supporting the outdoor program, but mine is.

I am so glad this thread was started, because it is answering some questions I had myself. I just finished the course a couple of weeks ago and am beginning to work my ticket. I left scouts as a Webelos and never went on to Boy Scouts as a kid. There are two men I have known since childhood who were members of my church. They were both very active in our church youth program as well as very active scouters. I grew up from being under their leadership in our youth program to end up serving as a fellow Deacon with them. These men's sons are now in their mid to late 40's like I am and are no longer active in scouting. However, It would mean a great deal to me to have these men included in my future beading. Their scout spirit carried over into other areas of their lives and had a great influence on me.

So let's be fair with President Clinton instead of holding him to a different standard than every other President. Yeah, he was a scum bag in his personal life. I'm not defending him. President's are busy people and making a speech at a Jamoree isn't always the top thing on their agenda depending on what is going on in the world. You can assign all sorts of bad reasons to it when you don't like the person (like liberals claiming Bush lied us into a war), but give a President the benefit of the doubt. No one accused the other Presidents of "snubbing" the Boy Scouts. The "snub" is a matter of opinion based on politics. Let's apply the Scout oath all the way around.

BW, Is the thing about Clinton snubbing the Jamboree an urban legend of some sort? I'm finding info that conflicts with your statements. http://jambo.forscom.army.mil/Jambo1997/bill.htm Clinton inspires Scouts By Warren Byrd President Bill Clinton directed Boy Scouts attending the opening show of the 1997 National Jamboree at A.P. Hill on Wednesday to lead the country into the 21st century by continuing to do what they do best dedicating themselves to building better and stronger communities across the world and doing "good turns." Clinton addressed an audience of more than 42,000 at the Jeb Stuart Arena , including nearly 34,000 Scouts from around the globe who ventured to the 14th National Jamboree. He thanked the U.S. armed forces for supporting the jamboree, and acknowledged the presence of Secretary of the Navy John H. Dalton, Secretary of the Air Force Dr. Sheila Widnall and the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Jay L. Johnson and other armed forces leaders. "To Maj. Gen. Dennis Malcor, the commander of the National Scout Jamboree Task Force, to all the scout leaders and to the men and women of the armed forces who are helping with this jamboree (more than 1,600), I am grateful to you for supporting these fine young Americans," said Clinton, who briefly mentioned his first experience with Cub Scouting as a youth in Hot Springs, Ark. "Its a great privilege for me to be here to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the first National Scout Jamboree, a pleasure to serve you and an honor to serve as your honorary president. "The Boy Scouts got their start in this country as the result of a good turn, Clinton said. "That one good turn set in motion millions and millions of other good turns over the years. The Boy Scouts of America, as much or more than any other organization in this country, have answered our call. The Boy Scouts committed, after the Presidents Service Summit, to provide 200 million hours of community service through the year 2000. I thank you for that commitment." Clinton encouraged the Scouts to help spread good will in their local communities when they returned. "Building communities and character are what the Boy Scouts have always been about," he said. "Today I ask all of you to help spread the word about doing good turns. All of you here, each in your own way, are future leaders of this country. When you return home from the jamboree, please encourage your classmates and your friends to join you in committing to community service. If every young person in America gives back to their community the way you do, just imagine what we could do, how many fewer problems we would have. "So many times I have wished that every young person in America had a chance to be part of Scouting, and tonight I see why more clearly than ever. The next time you recite the Scout oath, I hope you will remember that its not just your fellow Scouts, your parents and the people you know well, but your whole nation that is counting on you. We need you to remain focused on the strong values you learned in Scouting, remember that character counts and service counts. We need you if were going to build our communities and bring our people together across all the lines divided. We need you if were going to lead our country into the 21st century. We need you if were going to have a country where every person can live our his or her dream." Clinton closed his speech by challenging the Scouts to "help keep America good." " I know you will (do that) throughout your lives. So thank you for what you do, thank you for what you are and thank you for what you will become." http://jambo.forscom.army.mil/Jambo1997/wk3thp1.htm http://jambo.forscom.army.mil/Jambo1997/wk3thp2.htm http://jambo.forscom.army.mil/Jambo1997/wk3thp3.htm And this also.... http://www.scouter.com/archives/Scouts-L/199707/1024.asp Re: Jamboree Article from the Washington Post Paul Meyermann (Paul.Meyermann@UNI.EDU) Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:23:30 -0600 Below is a copy of an article from the Washington Post Web site regarding the Presidents visit to the Jamboree. IMO The article sheds a good light on scouting. ++++++++++++++++ Scouts Swap High Praise With Clinton By Justin Blum Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, July 31, 1997; Page D03 The Washington Post FORT A.P. HILL, Va., July 30_Appearing before a cheering throng of more than 30,000 Boy Scouts tonight at the National Jamboree, President Clinton praised Scouting for pledging millions of hours of community service. During his 10-minute speech, Clinton drew on the jamboree's theme -- "Character Counts! Be Prepared for the 21st Century" -- and said Scouting teaches values, particularly the importance of helping those in need. "We challenged all the adults in America to engage in citizen service, another way of doing a good turn," Clinton said in his remarks to the 14th National Jamboree. "The Boy Scouts of America, as much or more than any other organization in this country, has answered our call." The jamboree, a quadrennial affair, brings together Boy Scouts from across the country. They have gathered at this Army facility 80 miles south of Washington for nine days of camping and activities such as scuba diving, fishing, rappelling and biking. Arkansas Scouts cheered loudly as Clinton recounted his experience as a Cub Scout with Pack 1 at Ramble Elementary School in Hot Springs, Ark. He spent several years in Scouting but dropped out after joining his school band, Boy Scout officials said. But Clinton received the most enthusiastic response from Scouts after the speech, when he stepped off the stage and waded into the audience, shaking hands. He walked away with a bounty of gifts -- patches, scarves and pins -- offered by Scouts with outstretched arms in the front row. "It was probably one of the greatest moments of my life," said Clay Champagne, 14, of St. Charles, Mo., nearly breathless after receiving a presidential handshake. "His whole speech just made me realize we're the future." "I've always wanted to shake the hand of a president!" exclaimed Toby Philpot, 15, of Pensacola, Fla. "It was just great, because I want to be president when I grow up." Clinton thanked the Boy Scouts for a promise made at an April conference in Philadelphia to perform 200 million hours of community service over a four-year-period. That translates into about an hour of volunteering per month for each boy, Scouting officials said. "Today I ask you to spread the word about doing a good turn," Clinton said. "If every young person in America would give back to their community the way you do, just imagine what we could do. Imagine how many fewer problems we would have." Scouting already requires volunteer work, but the Philadelphia pledge was for service in addition to that already performed. Presidents have attended jamborees over the years; Clinton missed the last one because of a scheduling conflict. Like presidents before him, Clinton was given the Scouts' Silver Buffalo Award for distinguished service to youth and for serving as honorary president of Boy Scouting. The president arrived by helicopter at a massive outdoor arena as the "Star Wars" theme echoed over an ocean of waving Scouts, Scout leaders and family members. Scouts chanted, "We love you, Bill," while others begged him to shake their hands. Clinton singled out several Scouts for service projects and good deeds, including one who organized efforts to bring meals to the elderly. Scouts said that volunteerism was one of their most important activities and that they were pleased the president highlighted their efforts. "Helping people, you get a natural high," said Riley Wilhite, 15, of San Marino, Calif., whose volunteer work has included feeding the homeless and organizing government records. "You get a feeling that you've accomplished something. I'm glad to see we're getting recognized for that." @CAPTION: President Clinton shakes hands with some of the more than 30,000 Boy Scouts at the National Jamboree. He came away with a hat and other souvenir gifts. c Copyright 1997 The Washington Post Company

Rooster7: The majority of voters - how complicated is that? I don't know, let's ask George Bush and Al Gore.

Ed, Go to the BSA Right Wing organization thread.

CJ, I participate in several political forums where the rhetoric and invective really fly. I do not want to engage in that in this forum. I'll respond to part of your comments with this quote from Pat Buchanan in the NY Times on September 8, 2002. "The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalsit, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with." Buchanan got so fed up with the shift in the Republican party that he ended up leaving it to become an independent. No one can lay a claim that Buchanan is anything other than a staunch conservative. The kind that had always been around up until around 20 years ago. His is not a lone voice in the wilderness. There are a number of prominent Republicans and conservatives who feel the same way he does. You can read more of Buchanan's thoughts at his magazine's website www.amconmag.com. The neocon movement that has taken control of the Republican party grew out of a liberal movement rom the 70's. That is why we are seeing policies such as telling other nations how to govern (bringing democracy to the Mid-East) that are very similar to the liberals policies of big government telling the citizens what is best for them. Think about it.

Pack, Pack, Pack, What are we going to do with you concerning your scout spirit? (To everyone else, I talked Pack into e-mailing his question to me.) Your comment was funny, but not 52 times. The webmaster has got to do some serious work on this posting mail repeatedly. No offense taken friend. A sense of humor is a very good thing. I must confess that I think of a mule everytime I see your handle.

Pack ol' buddy, you know me! I used to be kwc57. I just completed Wood Badge course SR540 in the Beaver patrol. I asked the folks here at Scouter.com if I could change my name to celebrate my completion of the Wood Badge course work. Still have those pesky ticket items to complete. They were kind enough to change my screen name for me. They did such a good job that it actually changed the name for every post I've ever posted. I keep meaning to type (formerly kwc57) at the bottom of my posts for a period of time so folks like you will know who it is, but I keep forgetting.

That is sad indeed. Hopefully with the new mandatory background checks in place, this kind of think will happen with less frequency. The only flaw is someone who has not been reported or caught in the past. Until we can read minds, that is the risk we live with. One thing is for sure, this guy will never ever be allowed to work in any other organization that does background checks.

I'm not set up to receive notifications. I don't like wading thru tons of e-mail messages. I just check the threads I'm on periodically.

BW, Go back and reread my post. I do believe you are making my point for me. The point being that those who are throwing stones at democrats/liberals are just as quilty of dirty politics as those they accuse. There is plenty of blame to go around for both sides. I don't care how many times Hannity says, "wrong side of history" or Coulter says, "democrats are traitors to America", my WWII USMC dad does not fit their preconcieved political definition of him! Like I said, I'm an independent because I am disgusted with the actions or inactions of both parties. They both care more about scoring political points like two spoiled brats than they care about governing the country. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I don't have a dog in this fight over which president was better or who did more wrong than the other. Yes, Clinton is an adulterer and a scum. He did a good enough job that he was elected twice even in the midst of a no holds barred fight to defeat him. That fight started long before anyone even knew Monica existed. In the final analysis of all those millions of dollars and years, lying about his private sexual life was the only thing they could hang on him. I am no prouder of Reagan and the Iran/Contra scandel. His administration willingly broke the law and attempted to cover it up. How do you justify selling arms to a terrorist nation that just prior to his administration had held hostages for as long as they did? To say we did it to fight communism does not make it right. Would you urge a scout to knowingly break a law because it will serve your cause? Two wrongs do not make a right. Look Americans are Americans. They get up in the morning and put their pants on and go to work. They love and support their families. They pay their taxes. They vote. They go to church. They love their country. About half of those Americans are democrats/liberals and the other half is republicans/conservative. In the end, they are all Americans and proud of their nation.

CJ, No, we don't see conservatives suing the BSA. We do see them spending years and millions of dollars to overthrow a twice elected popular president. We do see them sue to determine who will be president in a closely contested election. We do see them initiate recalls to throw out elected officials. All power grabs due to not being able to accept the will of the people. Those are as much an assualt on our guiding principles as booing Boy Scouts. It must really feel great to belong to a party that portrays people like my father who was a life long Democrat and Marine veteran of WWII as a traitor because of his party affiliation. How big it is of them to dishonor his service to his country that way. Maybe theyd like to come here to middle America and try calling my dad a traitor or would they be too afraid? Ive heard some republicans say this isnt the party that they grew up with or that they believed in. They talk like its been hijacked. It has been hijacked by the neocons just as the democratic party was hijacked by the far-left. If thats true, fine take it back if they want to, otherwise they can always become an independent like I did as long as they dont cause a ruckus. Neither side fully represents me or speaks for me. They have both become full of backbiters who waste this country's time spouting rhetoric. I prefer to weigh each candidate and issue on it's merits, judged by my personal values and then vote accordingly. Both sides have faults and both sides are hurting this country by their partisan activities. The democrats/liberals do not have a monopoly.

Trail Pounder said, "Those speakers aren't running for any office or stumping for any candidates, where does partisan politics come into this? It doesn't." Actually, if you watch any Fox news, you will realize that both Coulter and North are VERY partisan pundits. No, they are not candidates running for any office, but they most definitely push a certain political agenda and strongly oppose the other side. I agree with KS about the Marine veteran disabled in VietNam. There are many people out there who can provide patriotic inspiration to young people without bringing politics into it. Patriotism is a love of country that can transcend political leanings, not love of a particular political agenda. People like North, Coulter or Franken can not seem to seperate the two in their minds. The comment was made about how conservative that part of Georgia was as a pretext to why they might have a rally of this sort. Stop and think on this. Would you find it appropriate for your scouts at summer camp to come home and tell you that the religious service at camp was done by a hellfire and brimstome preacher who held an invitation for salvation at the end? 90% of the boys there might have been from Christian churches, but the other 10% were not. And even of the 90% who are Christian, a large majority may not prescribe to that particular type of doctrine. BSA is supposed to be non-sectarian and non-partisan. This council showed poor judgement in their speaker selection.

mmmmmmm.......bread!!!! Where's myknife and butter? Sr540Beaver (formerly kwc57)

Twocub, I doubt we will hear anything out of national concerning this. However, I'm sure national and the council will have a little talk about it.

KS, I hear what you are saying and agree with you. My question however is whether this is the kind of thing a BSA council should do for a fundraiser? Do we teach ethical behavior, patriotism and community service in Scouting? Of course we do. Do we allow Scouts to march in Parades? Of course we do. Do we allow Scouts to wear their uniforms and campaign for particular candidates? Absolutely not! While this rally was not a political campaign, it did push a certain political agenda and ideology. Sean Hannity had a "Freedom Concert" not long ago that featured some of the same speakers. It was also a concert with a number of country singers. I think this council could have had a patriotic program with maybe their governor and a few other state politicians from both parties plus some local or regional musical entertainment and raised a good amount of money. You can give a patriotic speech without taking the opportunity of bashing the opposing party. Since that is Coulter's whole claim to fame, she should have never been invited to speak. I would thing most reasonable people would know that having certain speakers will only invite criticism from certain quarters. Something the BSA doesn't really need more of. A patriotic rally can be held as a fundraiser and satisfy everyone if a little thought goes into it. I am not a diehard conservative or liberal. I'm more of an independent or centrist. If I were holding this rally, I wouldn't invite an Al Franken or an Ann Coulter without thinking I'm going to get flak from someone. Like I said, the intention was good, but the execution was bad.

All I can offer is that while the intention was good, the execution was poor. What one council choses to do as a fund raiser is not a reflection on the whole BSA organization. While I have always had my qualms about North and his involvement in Iran/Contra, I could see him being a possible speaker. However, whatever fool invited Ann Coulter to speak should be shot. Whether you agree with her politics or not, you can not deny that her invective and rhetoric is NOT Scout like. I did some research thru Google on this rally and here are some sites you can review for yourself of what the speakers had to say. http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/article1DDFC18FD05A404EA28D48E96719FC8B.asp http://www.nega-bsa-events.com/upcoming.php

BW, I was under the impression that Troops could design their own unique neckerchief. I'm sure it has to conform within certain parameters, but can still be designed by a troop.

10-4 on folded rather than rolled. I use the term rolled because....well, because so many people roll them. When they put our working neckerchief on us at Wood Badge, they were rolled. All those many moons ago when I was a Cub, we carefullt "folded" or neckerchiefs. Heck, we even ran a hot iron over the folds to set them and keep them crisp. I taught my son to fold his Webelos neckerchief. The material is thin enough and soft enough that it really won't stay folded. It turns into a roll pretty quickly.

I don't have my son's Webelos book her with me, but if I recall correctly, it called for 6 inches of neckerchief showing. It also shows how to roll the neckerchief. I was a Cub almost 40 years ago and we rolled them back then. I just registered this past April and just returnd from Wood Badge this past weekend. While I think our neckerchiefs looked sharp (when worn correctly), I hated wearing it. I'm hot natured and having a collar with several rolled layers of material under my collar kept me with a wet neck most of the course. SR540Beaver (formerly kwc57)(This message has been edited by SR540Beaver)

FOG, You say poe-tay-toe, I say poe-tah-toe. I am aware of the two proper ways to wear the neckerchief. When I say "over the collar", that means to me personally that it is not "under the collar". Yes, the collar needs to be turned under if the neckerchief is worn "over the collar". There was even a time when you could buy uniform shirts without the collar. I do not have the magazine and could not see the picture. That is but one infraction of the neckerchief. The others concern shoving the ends thru the tie slide instead of "rolling" the neckerchief and how much neckerchief you have showing in the back. You see some people with an inch or two and others with 10 inches. SR540Beaver (formerly kwc57)(This message has been edited by SR540Beaver)

FOG, What do you consider proper for the necerchief? It can be worn over or under the collar.