SR540Beaver

I'm sitting here typing this and telling myself that I am a fool for doing so as it potentially opens a whole other can of worms. The argument of ID vs evolution reminds me of the whole gay marriage thing. There are those who feel that as long as they love someone, gender shouldn't matter and they should be free to legally marry them. There obviously are those of us who argue that marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman. The ID/evolution reminds me of this. ID is based on faith and belief, not science. Just like two men should not be married because it is contray to the definition of marriage, ID should not be taught as science.....because it isn't. In both cases, we are talking apples and oranges. I read a lot of conservative commentary, listen to conservative talk radio and wathc a lot of political opinion on the cable news channels. Many of the pundits like to point out the people in the background who support a given cause to show what the true agenda is. For instance, the people who backed Cindy Sheehan. Likewise, who is backing attempts to put ID in the science classroom? Is it scientists or educators or is it religious groups? When you actually look at who organizes and backs these attempts, it is kind of hard to say that ID is science instead of religion. For the record, I'm an evangelical Christian and I believe that God is the creator. How he went about creating is beyond me and the Bible gives pretty simplistic references. It doesn't go into any detail about the process beyond saying that God spoke it into being. That is kind of like saying Eisenhower gave the go ahead for D-Day without explaining what all happened in the days, weeks and months following. I have no problem with ID in the home and church. It is not science and should not be taught as such in a public school classroom.

Season's Greetings to one and all!!!

ES316: "While I might be working in a gay bar (based on this example), I still would not be condoning homosexuality." Boy, this sure takes me back to my Situation Ethics course in Seminary some 25 years ago where we discussed things like whether or not stealing food is wrong if you are hungry. ES316, Is it OK to make money transporting illegal drugs as long as you are not the one selling it to kids on the street corner? Transporting it from one place to another isn't the same thing as condoning its use after all. While you may not condone homosexuality, placing yourself in a business that caters to that crowd sure sends out a message that you do. You are enabling their actions by working in a place where you serve alcohol that will lower their inhibitions and make "hooking up" all the easier. Do you really want to be part of that? You would be, no matter how you rationalize it in your mind. You would be trading your principles in the hopes of making more in tips. Now, before I'm accused of being homophobic....I hold the same view about tending bar in a straight bar (meat market) where guys and gals are looking to hook up for a one nighter too. I just think there are better ways to make a living that will not compromise your morals, principles or reputation.

ES316, If it were me, I wouldn't take the job. I agree with the comments about perception is reality. Being a Southern Baptist, taking a bartending job regardless of whether or not it is a straight or gay bar would be out of the question for me personally. Since you mentioned a Priest, I assume you are Catholic and of course Catholics have far different views on alcohol than Baptists. Religion aside, is working as a bartender in a gay bar something you want to be known for? Is it a good example to the boys you work with in the troop? Money is obviously a very important thing in life. We have to be able to provide for ourselves. But the need to earn money is not a justification for taking a job that can give you a questionable reputation. There are other jobs out there. Can you rake in as much as quickly as you can by tending bar in a gay club? Probably not. But you also don't have parents wondering why this young single guy who works in a gay bar is working with their son either. I'd suggest finding a job that will teach you something useful in your later life. I'd stay away from this opportunity and keep my reputation and peace of mind intact.

FScouter, You must have some really, really old shirts from before the uniform change. I've worn more than my share of dress shirts and ties over the last 25 to 30 years and the scout shirt collar is not designed with a necktie in mind. Can you wear a tie with it? Sure. Will the collar lay like a collar should with a tie. Not in my view. I have not had lapels that big and floppy since I wore leisure suits back in the early 70's.

I wore a tie for what seemed like an eternity for work. Once they finally went casual, the only place I wear a tie is a wedding or a funeral. I don't even wear them for church anymore. The Scout uniform collar really doesn't lend itself to the wearing of a necktie in my opinion. I wear a neckerchief when required, but as hot natured as I am, it really puts my thermostat into overdrive. 99% of the time I wear my WB beads.

Ed and Rooster, You are right, it is important to understand the meaning of words or sentences. I think you guys are viewing "respect" as accepting other people's beliefs that are contray to yours. I think the actual intent is to respect the person's "right to believe" what they want, not "what they believe".

I am a people pleaser by nature and offending people can give me sleepless nights. However, the older I get, the more I realize that you can't please everyone and some people simply need to grow a thicker skin and quit wearing their feelings on their sleeve. To me, the person who blows up over something so small and makes a mountain out of a mole hill is pretty petty. While I wouldn't want to lose scouts, perhaps you are better off to lose a parent who has enough time on his hands to sweat the small stuff and gritch about it. If it isn't this, he'll find something else to complain about down the road. On the up side, on December 26th, Fox News, O'Reilly, Hannity and John Gibson are going to have the wind taken out of their sails until around Thanksgiving 2006. I predict Gibson's book will move to the bargain rack pretty quick. One other note. I recall being a kid some 40 odd years ago and seeing and hearing Happy Holidays and Seasons Greetings as much as Merry Christmas. Regardless of what the ratings craving talking heads say, the use of the "PC" terms is nothing new. They are decades old and predate my experience. A Festivus for the rest of us!

KoreaScouter: "They begin with a potluck dinner (in fact, I think it's a state law in Hawaii that any gathering of five or more people has to have food served)." Hmmmm, who knew that the state religion of Hawaii was Southern Baptist? Go figure!

Semper, Actually I was going to make a crack about the Festivus 'airing of grievances', but decided to be on my best "Holiday" behavior. I don't want another lump of coal this year.

I suggest a Festivus for the rest of us! Look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus

I was listening to O'Reilly on the radio today and he was going off about the "war on Christmas" and complaining about Happy Holidays. Boy, I hate to inform him....but I'm 48 and I've heard Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings as far back as I can remember Christmas. I even remeber Andy Williams singing Happy Holidays. It is much ado about nothing. This time of year is usually a slow news cycle and Fox has a habit of inventing news when there isn't any. That and all of their pundits write books and promote each other. John Gibson has his new book out and it has set the tone for the Fox family to cry about the sky falling. BTW, are you aware that Henry Ford declared there was a war on Christmas by the Jews in America back in 1915? It seemed to have weathered the storm nicely over the last 90 years. One other note. My 7th grade son came home from school asking me if it was wrong or illegal for the school to be talking about Christmas. He was curious because he hears all of those guys I listen to on TV and the radio talking about it all the time. He was concerned because his school and teachers have been talking about Christmas and putting up decorations and such. He didn't have a problem with it, he just thought schools were not allowed after hearing all the Fox pundits going off about it so much. Maybe some folks think there is a war, it is still Christmas in these parts.

Lordy! Did I have spelling problems or what? In my defense, I had a cheeseburger in one hand while typing with the other.

Is it just me or are other people experiencing problems pulling up the page of "Today's ACtive Topics"? This certainly isn't meant to be a criticism because I truely appreciate the hard work Scouter_Terry puts into this FREE resource. That being said, the response time between pages seems extremely slow nad in the case of the page mentioned, it times out and gives me a message of "Unable to display this page". Aside from the usual slowness, I have been having this patricular problem for the past week. Do we need to throw a few more Webelos in the squirrel cage to speed things up?

Owl, To parrot a few others here, I think respect and courtesy are kind of interchangable here. While I agree that respect is earned, scouting like many other things in life has a chain of "command". Each time a scout wanders up to one of us adults and asks a question, we send him back to his patrol leader. We let them know that is how it is done and if he doesn't get satisfaction, he can take it to an ASPL, then the SPL and then an adult. Respect and coutesy are taught as well as earned. We don't just leave it up to them to pick it up on their own any more than we would building a fire or using woods tools. Trust me, from my experience, if we didn't teach the boys to show a little respect and coutesy when addressing people, many of them would refer to their patrol members as frickin' dudes......which doesn't fly in out troop.

There is no prohibition on night driving. The policy reads this way, "All driving, except short trips, should be done in daylight." SHOULD and MUST have two entirely different meanings. I don't disagree with the policy. Driving in daylight is much preferred over driving in low light conditions at a time of day where the driver will most likely be more tired. That being said, driving at "night" is the only way most units will get to an outing during certain parts of the year. But wouldn't you agree that it would be better to do it in the light if possible?

We usually have around 40 boys at any given troop meeting, so trying to have a meeting at our local climbing gym wouldn't work as I don't believe they could handle a group that large. We have a number of scouts and dad/leaders who do go to the gym every other Friday on their own as a recreational activity. My son went week before last and got his first taste and loved it. The troop outing was this past weekend and we went to one of our council properties with a climbing tower. The activities were split in shifts between mountain biking and climbing/rappeling. My son finally completed his Camping Merit Badge he took at summer camp when he got to rappel. I think climbing would make a great occasional troop meeting if the gym can handle a group your size.

In our troop, it is Mr. and Mrs. and I like it that way. In our old troop, everything was on a first name basis. We started the troop with all 11 year olds who had been with us in Cubs where we were known by our first names. They literally looked at us like we were crazy if we suggested using Mr. and Mrs. There was way to much familiarity and I think it was part of a pattern for discipline problems we had in that troop. The troop we joined a few months back uses Mr. and Mrs. The boys seem much more respectful in all of their actions. Part of trying to help teach these boys to make ethical decisions over a life time is teaching them how to be gentlemen and to respect authority. I will say that 90% of the time we refer to the boys as Mr. too. Having seen both sides, I believe that the expectation and use of Mr. and Mrs. makes a huge difference in the make up of the troop.

Let me encourage you to sign up immediately! Why look, I have a registration form right here in my hand. Look, I have a pin in my other hand. I'll be happy to take your deposit check and hand it in with the form at the council office. Of course, You will have to come to Oklahoma to attend the course where I will be a Troop Guide in Fall 2006. Seriously, there is no reason to wait. I took WB in Fall 2003 when I was the Pack Committee Chair for less than a year. My son was a Webelos, so the Pack got very little benefit from my taking the course since we crossed over the following Spring. Do it. You'll be glad you did.

Rising Smoke, I'm stunned that you have a bunch of Scouters who are stunned that those things are possible. Anyone with cable TV can see shows such as Survivorman where the whole show revolves around a Canadian gent by the name of Les Stroud surviving 7 days with next to nothing to begin with. You can check out his site at www.survivorman.ca. One of my favorite magazines is Wilderness Way. Unfortunately, it only comes out quarterly. From a description I found on the web, "It offers instruction for those who want to know how to live close to the land. Each issue unlocks the secrets to making friction fires, primitive shelters, plant cordage, and spears, birch canoes, teepees and much more." You can find their website at www.wwmag.net.

I seldom go to scoutstuff.org and actually meant to the other day, but got side tracked. I knew eventually they would put all the leftovers on sale. I guess I'll have to go take a look and see about purchasing some of the stuff I decided earlier that I could live without.

I'm a certified city boy. My dad was born and raised on a farm. They were too busy to hunt other than ringing a chickens neck for dinner. He was a hard working sort of guy and usually had things to do around the house when he wasn't at work. He never hunted, therefore I never hunted. Some 20 to 25 years ago when I was in my 20's and on my own, I did a little dove, quail and duck hunting. I never managed to hit a thing except for one squirrel. When I got to him and found him twitching all over, it kind of turned me off to hunting. My father-in-law was a butcher and he cleaned it for me. It tasted horrible. Most of the wild meat that others have supplied to me tasted pretty gamey too. It is a whole lot cheaper to go to the grocery store and buy a really nice cut of meat than it is to shoot your own. By the time you factor in the cost of the gun, ammo, liscense, gear, clothing, gas, etc., the deer ends up costing you something like $50 per pound! LOL The majority of hunters do it for the sport and experience....not to put food on the table. That is merely a byproduct these days. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against hunting and have a good number of friends who are eat up with it. It has just never been for me. The few times I sat in a duck blind in near zero temps and froze my patootie off broke me of ever WANTING to do it. Which reminds me, we have a campout this weekend and the overnight low on Friday night is supposed to be 13. Looks like I'm no smarter than my hunter friends!

Scoutnut: "BTW - Girls & boys ARE different. While they both have the attention span of a gnat at 5-6 years old, girls can be more easily induced to sit still for longer than 2 seconds & to actually work on a craft. Boys would much rather run in circles & jump on other boys. Actually this behavior extends into first grade too!" My experience is that there are a good number of jr and sr high boys that act the same way.

My experience is that if you have had a good active Webelos program, the boys have already advanced to AOL by February. In our case, there was very little for them to do and they were quickly growing bored with the Cub side of things. I think if we had held them further into the year, we would have lost them.

How many old timers remember the old Lion rank in Cubs? I do because I have the Lion handbook at home. While Webelos has been around for many years preceeding 1967, I believe Webelos became a formal program and rank in 67 which is when I became a Webelos. Before that, the rank of Lion followed Bear. I'm sure BSA has a warehouse full of old Lion stuff they can haul out and sell again.