SR540Beaver

The only troop wide elected position in our troop is SPL and 1 ASPL. We have 3 ASPL's and the SPL appoints the other 2. Once we have elected the SPL and ASPL positions are filled, we hold elections for PL within each patrol. All other positions are appointed by the SPL and PL's. Each position has eligibilty requirements and a boy has to fill out an "application" stating which positions he would be willing to serve in. He and a parent sign the app stating that he will accept the commitment and carry out the job with his parents support. This gives us a working list for ballots and a list of possible appointees for the elected leaders to select from.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I concur that as long as you have multiple scouts present, a single adult can be with them. You can just never be one on one with a scout. Two adults are always the best option when possible.

Along the same lines and speaking of over zealous Scouters, I remember a thread here in the forums in the past year or so where the buddy system was taken to an extreme. One scouter said that boys were never allowed to sleep alone in their tent, they must always have a bunkie as a buddy for safety. I can see where you can stretch it to include tenting, but it seems over zealous to me. Usually your tents are set up within a few feet of each other and all you have between you and the next tent is two very thim pieces of nylon that do not inhibit sound whatsoever. In a previous troop I served in, we did not provide tents and the boys were responsible for their own tentage. They were welcome to buddy up if desired, but not required. In the troop I serve now, we do provide tents and sleep three to a tent in the winter, no option.

OGE, He served two terms as ASPL, but did the SM credit him for the service? We don't know from the info offered if he served "successfully" or not. If he is only there half the time or less, how could he fulfill his responsibilities without someone else doing his job for him? APL is not a creditible position for rank. My son's APL plays football and wrestles. In the last 6 months, I've seen him at one (maybe two) campouts and a handful of meetings. His attendance was sporadic enough that my son was named "acting APL" when the real APL wasn't around. We just went thru elections two weeks ago and my son is now officially the APL for the patrol. Had APL been a creditible position, the old APL would have been replaced and would not have been given credit. Right or wrong, our PLC created requirements and expectations of leadership long before we joined the troop. Boys fill out an "application" listing the offices they are qualified for and would be willing to serve in. This aids in the creation of ballots and gives the SPL a list of who to select from for appointed positions. They sign it agreeing to make the commitment if elected or appointed (depends on the position) and a parent signs it stating that they will support the commitment. This gives us a strong and committed leadership group that we can count on. Another condition of getting the position is attending the troop JLT. For senior leadership positions, they are allowed one missed outing. Junior positions get two. All of this is known up front and agreed to. We are a boy led troop that runs around 40 boys per meeting and we have 16 Webelos crossing over in the next week or two. The success of our troop depends on the commitment of the boy leadership and our training them in leadership. That can't happen if they are not there. Before anyone thinks we are too cold hearted, the SM does utilize his ability to assign a project to a scout who has waited until the last minute for Eagle and needs leadership to get it.

Come on guys......someone has had to have used the program in conjunction with scouting. They dovetail together perfectly. I'm looking for what kind of goals (using scouting) a boy might have set with the aid of his advisor.

I admire your son's level of activity and involvement in a variety of activities. Way back in the stone age in another life, I was involved in the high school drama department and know a thing or two about the expectations when there is a production being put on. Life often is about choices. As much as we may want to do it all, we can't. Look at it this way. Lets pretend that the school play your son was a lead in was performed each night for two weeks. Would he have gotten or retained the part if he showed up for less than 50% of the rehearsals and performances? He had to make a commitment as part of the requirment for getting the part. Why should obtaining his Eagle be any different. Does he want it for the prestige or because he believes in what being an Eagle is all about? If so, he needs to be willing to make a commitment. Older boys before him gave of their time and talent to teach him. Is it unfair to expect the same from him. Choices. Perhaps he could put some of the other activities on the back burner for six months and give scouting the same concentration he has the other activites. I don't mean that to sound mean. I really do admire your son's enthusiasm. He can play the field with many activities, but there are points where he has to choose one other others instead of expect people to bend so he can have it all. Just my two cents.

I have volunteered to promote and coordinate the Congressional Award within our troop. Does anyone out there utilize this in their troop and what is your experience with it? http://www.congressionalaward.org

And part of mission to connect people with Christ is: Matthew 25 31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

CNYScouter, Perhaps your reply back to them could be along the lines of whether or not a teacher will accept the argument that a student only has time to do work at school and can't do homework. Or whether or not a coach will accept the argument that a player only has time to play in the games and can't attend practice. In for a penny, in for a pound. Troop meetings and MB's are part of the same program, but they are separate parts of the program and done at different times.

OGE, In my opinion, one side has very little idea of how the other side thinks and they both deal in absolutes when speaking of the other. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a book out currently titled "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder". The author makes no distinction concerning how liberla you have to be to be mentally defective. I'm sure some liberal writer has an equally offensive book about the conservatives. It is still my opinion that much of this polarization has come about with 24 hour cable news channels and the rise in talk radio. The media works on a ratings system that helps determine how much they can charge for advertising. They end up selling out to ratings and bucks over fair or truthful analysis. People like sheep listen to the sound bite spin and insults and repeat it rather than actually research information and think for themselves. We've turned politics into a sportings event. It is no longer important to have consideration for your opponent, all that matters is scoring a point for your side and "winning".

Rooster, Let me help your comprehension skills. We can do nothing about natural disasters. We can do something about wars of choice. The point is that even if those did not factor into the equation as "extras", the congress and administration is growing our deficeit thru spending and growing the size of government at a pace never before seen in US history. It is not happening because of hurricanes and wars, but along side them. The Democrats stayed in power for decades thru spending and giving the American people all sorts of things. The Republicans harped about it for years. Now that they are in power, they had to figure out how to maintain that power and realized that they can only do it by doing the same thing their adversaries had done. Pork and plenty of it. Pork on top of paying for a war and natural disasters.

Rooster, Congress spending like drunken sailors and Bush refusing to use his veto power even once have nothing to do with the money spent on the war. I'm speaking of everything other than that. You realize that the conservative thing to do (whether at home or in government) is to put away savings for emergencies as opposed to blowing everything and then getting caught with your pants down with wars and hurricanes. Wars and hurricane spending aside, spending and the growth of government is at an all time high. Truth is hard to deny. As to the war, comparing Iraq to WWII is truly apples and oranges. Bush had me 100% with Afghanistan following 9/11. He lost me with a total war of choice in Iraq. If Iraq had been a real threat, they would have dome something in the 12 years prior to us going in. The viability of any WMD's they had plus any military hardware they had lessened each year that went by. I do hold Bush responsible for chosing to go to war when it was not needed and spending billions and billions of dollars that could have been spent her at home to secure our borders and make us safer from attacks. Experts say it is not a matter of "if", but "when" we are attacked again. If that attack originates from people who crossed the border while Bush courted the Hispanic vote, his place in history will be a bad one.

Eagle, I agree and we pretty much say the same thing. I remember watching boys (not ours) two years ago taking Personal Management at summer camp and being cooped up in the dining hall. That isn't what you come to camp for. I don't mind them doing Camping or First Aid so much, but go do horsemanship, canoeing, climbing or shooting for heaven's sake. It is all about learning to use your time wisely.

Aw, come on Eammon, it's just a little tweak.

Clyde, Probably so. Consider that you have a year and a half as opposed to just a year. I'm not sure what your monthly outings are. You could use the monthly outing to accomplish some of your requirments. If you go out for pizza and a movie, that would be difficult. We did a Pack outing once to the local nature park to do a service project so the boys could earn the World Conservation award. It is very helpful if you actually map out your program for the coming year. It should be loose enough to work in opportunities that pop up, but planned enough to cover all of the activity pin requirements in the course of year. Camp! In our council, we have Wolf and Bear Resident camp and Webelos Resident camp for half week sessions during the summer. We have Webelos Woods where boys can meet and camp with troops and can accomplish requirements. We have what is called Fall Family Adventures which is a cub weekend campout. Our Webelos den even threw in a couple of their own campouts. In the year and a half my son was in Webelos, we camped 7 times. You will find that the same group of boys and adults come to each campout and the others stay home. That is a fairly good indicator of which boys will be crossing over at the end of Webelos. However, we did have boys who did not take advatage of the camping or plan to crossover who did earn their AOL. It just all depends on your planning, organizational skills and keeping the boys on task......as much as possible. While I don't suggest it, you can actually meet all the requirements for AOL in the first year very easily. But then you are looking at a half year of very bored boys and end up losing them.

So Rooster, you'd recommend that individuals handle their finances the same way the administration and congress has for the last 5 years? Do you work for Visa?

Spot on!

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/national/08warm.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1139427643-rLi7DA4WQkaQqQSce5zRrQ February 8, 2006 Evangelical Leaders Join Global Warming Initiative By LAURIE GOODSTEIN Despite opposition from some of their colleagues, 86 evangelical Christian leaders have decided to back a major initiative to fight global warming, saying "millions of people could die in this century because of climate change, most of them our poorest global neighbors." Among signers of the statement, which will be released in Washington on Wednesday, are the presidents of 39 evangelical colleges, leaders of aid groups and churches, like the Salvation Army, and pastors of megachurches, including Rick Warren, author of the best seller "The Purpose-Driven Life." "For most of us, until recently this has not been treated as a pressing issue or major priority," the statement said. "Indeed, many of us have required considerable convincing before becoming persuaded that climate change is a real problem and that it ought to matter to us as Christians. But now we have seen and heard enough." The statement calls for federal legislation that would require reductions in carbon dioxide emissions through "cost-effective, market-based mechanisms" a phrase lifted from a Senate resolution last year and one that could appeal to evangelicals, who tend to be pro-business. The statement, to be announced in Washington, is only the first stage of an "Evangelical Climate Initiative" including television and radio spots in states with influential legislators, informational campaigns in churches, and educational events at Christian colleges. "We have not paid as much attention to climate change as we should, and that's why I'm willing to step up," said Duane Litfin, president of Wheaton College, an influential evangelical institution in Illinois. "The evangelical community is quite capable of having some blind spots, and my take is this has fallen into that category." Some of the nation's most high-profile evangelical leaders, however, have tried to derail such action. Twenty-two of them signed a letter in January declaring, "Global warming is not a consensus issue." Among the signers were Charles W. Colson, the founder of Prison Fellowship Ministries; James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family; and Richard Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. Their letter was addressed to the National Association of Evangelicals, an umbrella group of churches and ministries, which last year had started to move in the direction of taking a stand on global warming. The letter from the 22 leaders asked the National Association of Evangelicals not to issue any statement on global warming or to allow its officers or staff members to take a position. E. Calvin Beisner, associate professor of historical theology at Knox Theological Seminary in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., helped organize the opposition into a group called the Interfaith Stewardship Alliance. He said Tuesday that "the science is not settled" on whether global warming was actually a problem or even that human beings were causing it. And he said that the solutions advocated by global warming opponents would only cause the cost of energy to rise, with the burden falling most heavily on the poor. In response to the critics, the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, the Rev. Ted Haggard, did not join the 86 leaders in the statement on global warming, even though he had been in the forefront of the issue a year ago. Neither did the Rev. Richard Cizik, the National Association's Washington lobbyist, even though he helped persuade other leaders to sign the global warming initiative. On Tuesday, Mr. Haggard, the pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, said in a telephone interview that he did not sign because it would be interpreted as an endorsement by the entire National Association of Evangelicals. But he said that speaking just for himself, "There is no doubt about it in my mind that climate change is happening, and there is no doubt about it that it would be wise for us to stop doing the foolish things we're doing that could potentially be causing this. In my mind there is no downside to being cautious." Of those who did sign, said the Rev. Jim Ball, executive director of the Evangelical Environmental Network: "It's a very centrist evangelical list, and that was intentional. When people look at the names, they're going to say, this is a real solid group here. These leaders are not flighty, going after the latest cause. And they know they're probably going to take a little flak." The list includes prominent black leaders like Bishop Charles E. Blake Sr. of the West Angeles Church of God in Christ in Los Angeles, the Rev. Floyd Flake of the Greater Allen A.M.E. Cathedral in New York City, and Bishop Wellington Boone of the Father's House and Wellington Boone Ministries in Norcross, Ga.; as well as Hispanic leaders like the Rev. Jesse Miranda, president of AMEN in Costa Mesa, Calif. The evangelical leaders are meeting Wednesday with senators or their staff members concerned with legislation on energy and the environment. Their letter commends senators who last year passed a resolution by Senators Pete V. Domenici, a Republican, and Jeff Bingaman, a Democrat, both of New Mexico, which called for regulatory measures like a cap and trade program, a system in which industries would buy or trade permits to emit greenhouse gases. In their statement, the evangelicals praised companies like BP, Shell, General Electric, Cinergy, Duke Energy and DuPont that it said "have moved ahead of the pace of government action through innovative measures" to reduce emissions. The television spot links images of drought, starvation and Hurricane Katrina to global warming. In it, the Rev. Joel Hunter, pastor of a megachurch in Longwood, Fla., says: "As Christians, our faith in Jesus Christ compels us to love our neighbors and to be stewards of God's creation. The good news is that with God's help, we can stop global warming, for our kids, our world and for the Lord." The advertisements are to be shown in Arkansas, Florida, Kansas, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee and Virginia. The Evangelical Climate Initiative, at a cost of several hundred thousand dollars, is being supported by individuals and foundations, including the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Hewlett Foundation and the Rockefeller Brothers Foundation. The initiative is one indication of a growing urgency about climate change among religious groups, said Paul Gorman, executive director of the National Religious Partnership for the Environment, a clearinghouse in Amherst, Mass., for environmental initiatives by religious groups. Interfaith climate campaigns in 15 states are pressing for regional standards to reduce greenhouse gases, Mr. Gorman said. Jewish, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox leaders also have campaigns under way.

My son didn't start until Webelos 1. Our den always met weekly except for the week of the Pack meeting. We had other lower rank dens that decided to meet every other week and seemed to continue to run a successful and well attended program. Now that I'm over in Boy Scouts, my suggestion is to hold weekly den meetings for at least the Bears and Webelos.....AND camp!!! Boys and parents that come from a 9 month program that meets 2 times a month are in for a culture shock when the come to a full year program that meets weekly. We have 16 Webelos crossing over to our troop in the next 7 to 10 days with the possibility of 2 or 3 more in April. If I heard correctly, I thought I heard one of the Webelos say they meet once a month. The ability to keep the kids from that pack concerns me greatly. We have a great program......that is why we have 16 new boys coming in.....but if they are used to a once a month commitment, they are in for a HUGE surprise.

Barry, We are not far off from what you describe. We do the traditional thing where the boy goes to the SM first and gets names and a card signed and makes arrangements. Even for an MB fair, the boy is responsible for getting a card from the SM and finding out any pre-reqs or any other info he needs. Like I said, we limit the number of MB's we offer as an outside class and we limit the frequency of holding the classes. The main reason for doing them is to control the quality. Personal Management and Family Life just can not be done justice in a summer camp situation. In fact, the SM will not sign a card for certain MB's at summer camp. He either wants them done in-house or thru an MBC on our list. While taking any MB is highly encouraged, we do explain to the boy why we want them to take certain MB's in certain environments as opposed to others.

PS What I meant to say in all of that and didn't really spell out is that security plans change from minute to minute. It is not always possible to get advance warning.

Acco, In this day and age of high security, that is the way it goes. I don't recall if you were at the Jambo or not, but IMHO it was security that got so many boys sick. We were getting different security instructions every five minutes. It is an honor to have the President come and speak at Jambo. It is also a huge headache. Due to security, we had to be at the arena a couple of hours early. That meant marching some boys (like ours in subcamp17) more than 3 miles on blacktop, shoulder to shoulder, front to back with 40,000 of your closest friends in a 121 degree heat index. Because we had to march mid-day, there was no lunch and no dinner. A meal was served in the early afternoon to replace the two normal meals. On top of that, after spending $585 to come to Jambo, the boys missed out on all of the various activites because they had to be in camp to march. Some activites like the water activites had to be scheduled. That was the only time you could do them. Our session was during the time we were expected in camp. Our boys missed out on getting one of their rocker patches because they couldn't do the activity. I won't even go onto the well documented fiasco that occured once the march began in record heat and then retreated into a storm. All of that for security of one man. A very important man to be sure and that kind of security is required to ensure his safety. As much of an honor as it is to have the President speak at Jambo, I'd prefer that he didn't and instead sent a video address. It is just too disruptive. All of that to say, I understand that you had disappointed boys, but those responsible for high security situations feel that their needs will trump every time......and do.

Yet all of the people currently in charge who lay claim to Reagan's legacy are delivering an ever increasing government.

Barry, Our troop does something similar. We have a number of parents available for various MB's that boys can work with anytime they want. We do however periodically schedule certain Eagle required MB's that we want to ensure the quality of. It is announced that Mr or Mrs So and So will be teaching the Personal Management MB on X night over the next X weeks if anyone wants to sign up. They are always done outside of troop meetings and it is up to the boy to decide to sign up.

scoutldr, The other side of that scary equation are all of the people who vote simply based on what Hannity and other pundits say. For many, it is easier to be spoon fed than to cook the meal themself.