skeptic
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Posts posted by skeptic
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Another example of some adults overstepping. It sounds as if they are suggesting the youth, or the troop, or both do not have the intelligence or understanding to follow the pretty much bullet pointed form. Oh my gosh, someone might use imagination or out of the box thinking. Seems sad to me, and if it was from my district I would be on them directly, as I did once when someone on the district "Eagle Committee" told us that we had approved a project that was out of line with the intent. I had to actually read the detailed phrases and then ask them to explain how it was not done right or acceptible. The district head resigned, but sometimes it is just too much.
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Two seeparate versions of the program. The British or likely original BP concept leading to hopefully a smoother transition. In the Patrol system, as noted by Hillcourt, yes the patrol members would vote for a patrol leader, ideally. But, as understood, I believe, there is an adult option to veto that in "rare" circumstances. But, that should be the last option; often the floundering youth finds his way and surprises us. As adults, it can be very hard to watch the new leaders struggle, but that is part of the process.
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My councill is not on this list. What does that possibly indicate? Are these ones that sold property, or just what they are being asked for? I do not know for sure, but we had a settlement from a wildfire loss during this period, so that may be related?
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That just goes to show that I was not up on any such change. I had thought the 20 miles was part of the badge since "always", and it was one reason it was often not attempted.
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Like most of these types of things, it is variable as to the best approach. Ultimately, it is the leader that needs to decide, an d as long as it does not obviously contradict vague "rules or guides" there is not wrong answer. This idea that everything is black or white is just ignorant. Sky changes with the light it receives, and so do most human perspectives.
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We may need to be careful to not equate understanding cultura elements of various NA groups, with the inuendo of of Cultural Appropriation. Too many, it seems to me, jump overboard if even a mention of NA history or culture is put into discussion. Many of our issues in todays society seem to be overreactions to simple knowledge of others and their thoughts and histories. And often, that accusation is aimed specifically at the WAS parts of our society. Again, just my opininion.
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As an addin. Much of my early knowledge and views of Native Americans came from the generation of which I spoke above. But, I was an avid reader of good historical novels, as well as off the wall bits of history. That on occasion, with the better writers, touched on realities and inequities, but also on real intercultural mixing. Then when I took two courses in NA History, as well as an anthro course on NA language connections, I finally began understanding better. Episodes of cultural history can happen instantaeously, but the real picture takes dcades and longer.
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While I surely agree we need to review and in many instances adjust our approach, I do not see this being as great an issue as some are tyring to make it. Again, there are numerous examples of tribes working to display their customs and histories with others, both within and without the Native American groups. And there are many example of non NA individuals honoring customs and history , often with the support of local tribes. Once again, we cannot rewrite history, good or bad. But we can adjust and find shared interests and efforts to recognize and honor. We seem to have many suggesting that any study and hands on cultural study and sharing by non NA is somehow wrong. That is foolish and gains nothing but stress and misunderstaanding. Do we simply somehow erase all the history prior to a certain time, including that dealing with the intertribes and their treatment of others? Do we destroy all the early "westerns" that are poorly made in regard to NA culture and history? Most who review this issue likely understand that it is a evolving discussion. Many of us grew up when the stories of the Indians and White man conflicts was common and often the subject of B movies and yes, cowboys and indians. I hope most of us of that generation also can recognize much of the real errors of that period and can adjust. That includes the NA culture as well I would profer. Learn from history and adjust to make the future better and more cohesive across cultures and ethnic groups. That is why we study the past, or should be, in my view. And this suggestion extends beyond the immediate discucssion to other cultural groups and so on. We need to get back to the melting pot idea.
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If you have received the survey, you should note that there are soptions that suggest some of what you suggest. To me, it is very open and actually allowed me to give honest thoughts. To me, it is most important to respect both local and far flung tribes and to always work with them locally. We have had a number of visits from Chumash elders and they blessed our call out with a smoke ceremony in a few incidences. The most care needs to be taken, IMHO, in learning as much as possible and NOT appropriate things without the involvement of the local tribes. In regard to the Delaware, the initial tribe, the ceremonies may need serious review ans changes, and where possible maybe develop partner ceremonies for the local locations that reflect the originals if possible. In regard to the MB, it is in need of serious rewrite, and that shoud include input from Nationl level Native groups so as to NOT overstep. On the OA level, we need to FIX the poor ceremonial presentations that are far too common. Certainly, if possible do NOT read ceremonial lines, and also be sure if regalia is in play that it is worn correctly and is not looked at as simply costume.
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With the ongoing challenge we are dealing with in regard to a youth with Autism and a meltdown I find this important. It appears we have no committee on disabilities in our council, and the SE seems unwilling to consider it as a need, even though a number of adults have broahed it and are willing to work with it. Mean, our young person is in limbo and no clear info is available. We want to put him into a Lone Scout program which allows separation if his issues are flaring, but still lets him be involved. Meanwhile, we seem to be wheel spinning. Anyway, this is a good piece by Aaron. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2023/03/16/guiding-a-scout-with-neurodivergent-issues-through-their-eagle-scout-service-project/
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Sadly, too true today, though we still have the units that do NOT fit that picture. But, too often, those units are dependent on too few adults that know how to sit in the background with occasional prods. And that is because they were not allowed to function in that manner. Add the modern issues with which we have now struggled for more than two decades, and it truly makes it harder. Yet, the program survives, and on occasion the public actually recognized it for its overall worth, rather than the image too often propagandized by the media and others.
I recently have thought how fortunate I have been that few of the negatives have largely affected my century+ unit, but as I have aged, and the needed YP guides have come into play, I also recognize how lucky I was in a few instances. When I first took over the unit, still in my thirties, two deep was NOT absolute. And some of my earliest adventures were with me and a few older youth that were traiining me in some respects. But we dodged a couple of bullets a few times, and it made me insist that I have at least one other adult with me at all times, not just for transport. I can pleasantly look back though and honestly boast that I have had a few exceptional men come out of the melee, and many more simply "solid" men with the keen focus. And that is what we still can do, even though often challenged by the guidelines taken too often to extremes, perhaps. Balance, one of myu favorite concepts. But I am soon to enter my last year of my seventies, and maybe my perspective is clouded. ????
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The young man who had never exhibited this kind of behavior and is in the extended program for youth/adults has been balanced and deemed no longer a danger. But the local council has refused to discuss his being put into the Lone Scout Program, or any program actually and the local SE has demonized him. We are not able to get info on where to go above the council, and we have been told the decisiion is that of the SE as he deems fit. When asked who we could appeal to he refuses us any info, and we have not found links on the net. Help, if possible.
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14 hours ago, Wëlënakwsu said:
It's been a few years, but I can advise in my Council when an adult’s membership was revoked… in addition to a prorated membership fee refund, the Scouter received information on appealing to the Region. The decision was usually made at a Council level rather then National and preferably after consultation with the Chartered Organization Institutional Head. It is not a District (ie DE, et al) function. Anecdotally... after appeal; membership was rarely, if ever, reinstated.
I assume it's likely there is more to the story then only “accidentally violated" the rule.
It is not really that uncommon to find yourself suddenly one on one, at least for a moment. Youth come into your space with questions or simply to get something in the general area. You can be sittingon the porch at camp with coffee and on occasion they will appear and your realize there are no others there at the immediate moment. That was one of my most diddicult things with which to deal as a sub teacher. The kids would just appear on occasion and I would find myself migrating very quickly to the open area outside the door if the student was alone. Most of these instances are completely innocent, but easily happen.
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On 2/10/2023 at 8:36 AM, Ojoman said:
As volunteers, we can't do much to control registration costs but we can impact program costs. In the Longhouse Council we have some unique things which frankly any council can have. We have a 'museum' committee and they started a 'hole in the wall' museum years ago. It attracted some good scouter followers and they ended up raising funds to build the modern 2,500 sf William Hillcourt Museum. Recently that group of volunteers agreed to create a new local Erie Canal Historic Award program that is low cost and we are having a free event in May to encourage youths to earn the award and other recognitions. Additionally, this program will introduce units to the many state facilities along the Erie Canal historic trail where they can do low cost camping. Volunteers can share all sorts of things from how to inject fun, low cost crafts to sharing resources for events (inter pack/inter troop) that are fun and exciting. Years ago one of the parents in my kids pack asked me 'when do we pay for all of this? we're getting a lot more than it is costing us." Even at todays fees, we can give families a lot more than they paid for if we all join together to put out the highest/best quality year round program experience. Low cost and free programs keep it simple and make it fun at all levels. https://www.williamhillcourtmuseum.org/announcing-a-new-award-that-can-be-earned-the-erie-canal-trail-medal-and-patch
Years ago one of the parents in my kids pack asked me 'when do we pay for all of this? we're getting a lot more than it is costing us." That is an interesting comment if I am reading it correctly. A parent asking when the other shoe of cost may drop? It is usually not that kind of comment we hear, so it must have been refreshing. Yes, we can find many ways of spreading the wealth while spreading the cost too. Sadly, far too many choose to ignore those realities and just seem to feel they have little need to contribute. Meanwhile we hope to keep heads above water, or simply absorb because it is fun or rewarding for us, as well as them. Then you have a Scout Sunday at your church where your unit has met for a centry plus, and the congregation smiles and loves the scouts and makes it clear it IS important.
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This type of conversation seems trite to me. IF the original shake, the one suggested by B.P. is not for you, that is your choice. And the possible story behind the choice by B.P., the one from meeting with an African chief is to be accepted, then it has a place. Ultimately, just like the saluting of Scoutmasters and other leaders that was common at one time, things go by the wayside or get altered to newer concepts or ways. Tradition has its place. Ultimately, we may want to keep the idea of the shake in view, whether or not we choose to use it. JMHO
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It seems he has done it nightly over that time period. Not just winter, and not just in the snow. Not likely a challenge most could handle. A week or two for me was enough when I was younger, though I did sleep on our portch in the summer in the desert when a teen. Got to know the stars very well, and absorbed a lot of spiritual vibrations that still linger.
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It will never satisfy everyone. Some cannot see the forest as they say. Others simply cannot get beyond their own fears or bias. We are all human, and we are also prone to errors in judgment and make dumb decisions at times. On the other hand, the majority mean well and most respond if challenged in a meaningful way with education on the program and its history.
One of the biggest fallacies in the ongoing media attention is that somehow they either lose track of the fact all people involved are human, as far as we know anyway, and humanity has many very flawed and messed up people. The concept that somehow BSA or any other youth oriented groups will be perfect is simply ludicrous.
Focus on the goals and find the best methods that work and stay on the intened course. Follow the safety rules and maybe allow adults to actually make logical decisions if they are "in charge". If something occurs that is not positive, then work within the system and clarify, find solutions, and in rare cases get authorities involved. STOP making every mistep a plot or blanket accusation that is painted with a very wide red or black brush.
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I like the digital idea. Design the shirt to have an electronic sreen of some type on the needed place and they could be uploaded to scroll or something. Might even do that for youth ranks; push a button after approval and the rank displays on the pocket. Similarly, optional patches on the other side could be loaded and chosen to show in a rotation or somethng. How exciting would that be?
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18 minutes ago, MattR said:
Most communities in So Cal seem to have a good idea of what tribes were present since the Spanish days and before. Much of the area bordering the Great Basin and the Colorado River were home to transiant tribes that moved with the seasons. In our area, the Chumash is the accepted principle tribe, and our lodge works with them to keep in touch with tribal concerns. They have often blessed some of our activities with special ceremonies. But there are records of a number of other tribes in and out, and trading inland to the ocean was common. Many tribes were very small, and after the Mission era, some were basically extinquished by the mining and cattle interests that moved into the areas. More recently, we have seen discoveries of small enclaaves of surviving tribes in the desert areas and along the coast. I suspect similar patterns may be known in much of the country, and from my studies in Native American history and anthropology of the same I am aware that much of the knowledge is only now starting to emerge, especially since so many tribes were small and mobile. We need to respect what we know, and make real efforts to not corrupt cultural places and history.
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58 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:
And they were very segregated.
Mostly, as was the culture of the time. But there was interactions, and blacks were not banned from international events, nor not allowed. All of these challenges Evolve with the time and surrounding cultures.This predates apartheid of course, yet in 1979 at Philmont our crew met a crew from South Africa that had come due to the cancellation of the jamboree. A full crew of youth, all White except for their leader. Yet there did not appear to be any real problems with their interactions. Granted, we did spend much time with them. But, the fact that they came with that type of arrangement says a lot, or at least seems to.
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4 hours ago, johnsch322 said:
Was that Black or White Africans?
Both, though surely you knew that already.
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More trying to somehow rewrite history. The FACT that scouting was open to Aftricans when BP was still alive should be enough to negate this. But, we just have to find ways to make history read as we wish, rather than it is. Different time, different world and even local ideas and ways. Just like BP moved to respnd to the Girls that showed up in a group and told him they wanted to be Scouts too, and so they were there, he spent time and effort to find ways to mitigate much of the cultural and raceproblemsof the time.
You cannot rewrite history nor hange the culture from the past to somehow look good today. It is simply ignoratnt to even suggest. JMHO of course, as I am really tired of this type of ignorance and would hope others might agree,.
Base on today, there are huge differences in cultural awareness and responses. And many are tin ted with the wrrors or poor ideas of the past. Fix today, but leave the past in the past, as you CANNOT change it.
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We need to transition to a troop is a troop
in Open Discussion - Program
Posted
IMHO it is our screwed up legal system that allows lawyers to cause issues where there are none, or they are minor. Far too many ridiculous monetary payouts for things that are mostly part of the larger human race. The issue we face(d) likely would never have even gone to court in much of the world, and our media just makes it worse by their skewed focus on sensationalism.