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skeptic

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Everything posted by skeptic

  1. Over the years I have on occasion made up an award to recognize special things, usually at summer camp. Two funny ones (in my opinion) were given too adults. We went to Cherry Valley on Catalina years ago, before they got rid of the wild pigs. The small groups would come down from the upper canyon and visit each campsite to see what they could find. The first night, it happened they were making a huge racket trying to get at our trash bag which was tied up high. All the scouts were watching from their tents, their flashlights lighting up the camp. An ASM decided he would scare them off,
  2. As I look back even farther than most posts, 1959, I see many parts of the Ordeal and Brotherhood that have either changed almost completely, or been modified to the point of having little or no real point any more. Was there, at times, hazing and unfairness; yes, on occasion. But it was not common, and mostly was dealt with when a problem became known. I would agree that putting some of the mystery back into the Order and its rituals would possibly make it significant again for many who now see no purpose. Of course, I also would like to see true selection by troop members again, in
  3. An acquaintance sent me this link about a supposed plot to secretly turn scouts in non-Christians. I found it basically silly and amusing; yet wonder if others may have encountered this and what their thoughts are. Here is the link, if anyone is interested. This might be better in the politics section, so moderators, please feel free to move. http://catholicintl.com/articles/OrderoftheArrow-JohnSalza.pdf
  4. I see this whole thread as someone "poking the pig"; therefore, other than this comment, I will ignore it as having no worth.
  5. Trev: "This is the way I see ("skew") it: BSA is telling two minority groups that they are not welcome while at the same time knowing it has no factual basis for claiming they can not be the "best type of citizens". " First of all, no reputable leader is telling the scouts either/or in relation to homosexuality; it is not a topic for discussion. But, if it becomes a problem due to various scenarios (most, again likely due to adult intervention), then they could be asked to leave. As far as Atheists are concerned; they cannot meet the criteria of membership. If they choose to adher to
  6. Trev: Actually, they are told that if they want to participate, they need to meet the BSA requirements. And, for the most part, the so called "won't let them join" refers to adults anyway. It is really tiresome to hear the same old nonsense that by actually adhering to their basic tenets, rather than changing for a minority (many who want to push an agenda)the BSA is in the wrong. You can skew it anyway you like. Those of us in the trenches lean over backward to accept any boy. It is the adults that tend to cause the problem. Case in point from years back now. When the Randall
  7. Like many topics here, we are not privy to the complete picture. We are only getting the view, expressed through a secondary source, that the parents are being unreasonable and are upsetting the boy because it is an on-going occurrence. On the other hand, we do not really know; was this the 5th time in a week that "Johnnie" was late by 10-20 minutes? Is he always late by a few minutes, and always has what would appear to be a reasonable excuse? We may not be getting the whole thing. I remember as a kid that I had my neighborhood side, and my in house side; and they were often complete o
  8. A long while back I had a similar problem with a boy. He transferred to us from another troop, as he said the other troop did not treat him right. We were actually the third troop. When he was unable to pass some rank requirements, due to having not mastered the material, his mother came to me with the race card. He was from a bi-racial family, and his mother was white. I tried to mollify her and clarify things, but she was convinced he was being treated unfairly due to his color. He never did advance, and soon afterwards, left the program. I felt a bit guilty, and discussed it wi
  9. Calico; While I hope your take on it is right, I fear that more likely it is because many, especially those who have their noses out of joint to one side or the other, really do not have knowledge of the prominent men involved in BSA's beginning. I suspect that both Beard and Seton would be appalled at some of the things that go on today in the program and the statements and claims that are made. On the other hand, they might also be pleased that some element of the program still clings to the things they found important in life and in leading youth. From my perspective, one of o
  10. Who was/is "Daniel Seaton"? Possibly a clone of Dan Beard and Earnest Thompson Seton? Just wondered.
  11. Yep, we, as adults, need to recognize that we have to draw a line as to what is acceptable in our units, and our own lives for that matter. The problem I see is that for whatever reason, too many people seem to think that we need to give youth a pass on things we really know are not acceptable, because they are just "testing the boundaries", or they are "just being kids", and other weak excuses. What it seems to mean to me is that far too many adults do not have the backbone to stand up to the kids and "draw the line" where it should be drawn. As scouts, they supposedly are working on being
  12. Hal; Yep; guess I should have added the punch line. Thanks.
  13. Beavah; Do we start with a ruler or yard-stick; or do we need to go to the two x four? Surely most of you are aware of the balky mule, the farmer, and his new bride. So, should we consider that kind of treatment for most of our representatives?
  14. TheScout; etal: Just once I would like to see you guys suck it up and admit perhaps you aren't always smarter than the average bear. The real question might be how long would it have been for the internet, as we know it, to become a reality if the first renditions, under the government and colleges, had not occurred? Same really goes for computers too, as they were really pushed in their infancy during WWII, by the government. Rockets, modern planes, "Tang", solar energy, radar, sonar, plasma, field medicine which led to paramedics............... Many would not have gotten very far wi
  15. BrentAllen: You say you are a history expert; so what made this country what it has been until recently? Initiative, innovation, and invention, leading to solving of problems useful world-wide. Maybe we will have those again once the whiners and businesses that have become short term profiteers have left. Maybe, just maybe, if CEO's, boards of directors, and politicians on both sides had taken blinders off, they would have reacted to many of these problems in their infancies. This I want/deserve all I can get, right now attitude is a large percentage of the problem. Ignoring infrastr
  16. Gotta go with Lisa on this one. From my perspective, the word and its variants simply replace using the widely unacceptable in general conversation. If they thought they could get away with it, it would be the actual word, just as they hear and see used in movies (which we know they see somehow)or is used by far too many of the pop culture icons. They have learned, for the most part, to not do that in front of me, nor, for that matter, use other substitutes for generic swearing. Of course, I realize they continue to do it otherwise. Very unlikely to have much affect on the I am afraid.
  17. Mile High; Would have to disagree in regard to hatchets, and even axes. They are no different than any other tool if used as intended. Proper safety and precautions should be learned, and violations should result in the individual not being allowed to use. On the other hand, small saws are often all you need in today's camping environments for downed wood prep. In exceptional cases, use of an axe is called for. Certainly they should only be used by senior scouts or adults, and even they should have had proper training first. Use of wood tools is important in many scoutin
  18. B.A. said; " Why is this important? If you study your history, you will know the reason the US was able to field an army so quickly for WWII was because we had so many civilians competent in riflery. These citizens became soldiers and instructors." You can achieve this competence without needing automatic or assault rifles. No one has said a thing about having general competence here, only common sense rules. While you may not personally be ready to use the assault or auto weapons for anything but rapid fire target obliteration; there are way too many who would if given an opening.
  19. You guys are pieces of work; it is just a bit worrisome that you might well be preaching this negative attitude to scouts. It is one thing to disagree; quite another to make blatant statements that verge on asking for the President's failure. Yet, what do you propose in the meantime? I have seen no even remotely alternative plans from the gloom mongers, and certainly almost no effort by the republican side to even attempt to seriously deal with the disintegration of our society. Whether or not the proposals and bills work, they could at least not start digging the holes under them before t
  20. Wondering if anyone can shed new light on those of us who are not yet assigned, but received the patch and letter? Our local council exec in charge of Jambo has no info, other than they approved me. Even though my schedule and availability are pretty flexible, it would nice to have an inkling as to plans for the summer. Especially since I am seriously considering doing a cross country trip from California in conjunction. Thanks for any current input.
  21. Possibly they could simply delete the record at National, but not bother with anything else. The fine print explanation under "trustworthy" back in the old days indicated they could take away badges. A SCOUT IS TRUSTWORTHY: A Scout's honor is to be trusted. If he were to violate this honor by cheating, lying, or not doing an assigned task, when trusted upon his honor, he may be directed to hand over his scout badge. We had to memorize all the explanations of the time. Still, apparently there is no record at National level of this. I do know that we have had Silver
  22. Once again they pass up a chance to make travel a bit less expensive for those of us on the West coast, and even midwest. Granted, perhaps the choice was the best available; I do not know what may have been offered more centrally. But I was truly hoping that they would settle on something about mid country. Ironically, I was just reading in an old Scouting Magazine from 1932 about the original gift of Schiff. Of course they sold that off. We will have to see.
  23. This seems as good a place as any to say happy BD to the BSA. One year to go to the hundredth.
  24. Your aside that if a prejudice is against Gays or atheists it is okay with the BSA is erroneous IMO. The BSA position does not encourage leaders to do any such thing; they only state that these life styles are not compatible, in their judgment, with the basic tenets of scouting. Good leaders will not abide denigration of others, especially in the presence of scouts. You can disagree with people and their choices, and still be tolerant of their rights to believe as they do.
  25. 76 Titles, many issued in more than one type. The BSHB was issued numerous times, beginning with the 1914 edition. The first type had the scout symbol in red on the front of the book, but not on the spine. The covers were all more or less khaki colored. There are a number of subtle variants of the symbol and semaphore flags in the background. The second type had the same front design, but also the scout symbol on the spine. Type 3 had an embossed symbol on the spine (hard to see on many of them) and the covers were weird greens, browns, orange and so on; there was no design on the front.
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