SeattlePioneer

Based on what's been posted, it sounds like rldavis should mail or e-mail the form for nominating an adult to OA to the Troop Committee Chair along with his interest in being nominated. If I were an OA Chapter leader I'd do whatever I could to get that nomination processed as soon as I received that nomination form, even if it might not come in when it was desired. I wouldn't be at all bashful about expressing my interest in that nomination. As explained by OA leaders in this thread, it is highly desirable to have Scoutmasters as OA members. As I think about it now, I remember being pleased to be nominated. But I don't recall making it a point to nominate other adult leaders after I was nominated in subsequent years. I never thought about that until now. Perhaps the Committee Chair was paying attention to that. If not, I would have benefited from being reminded about that by OA Chapter leaders.

> Three and a half years ago I took an interest in this Cub Pack when it had one Cub Scout and the Cubmaster as the only active participants. Now we are doing far better, especially in attracting adult leaders for the pack. Still issues to solve though before it has a stable membership base. Monday is our spring Recruiting night ---I'm doing recruiting at ten schools plus I have an initiative to try to appeal to the heavy Hispanic population in the area. My interest in a girls program is for the future when the Cub Pack has returned to stable health and can take on some new challenges. Those new challenges might be to leverage the Cub Pack to get a new program going in a neighboring low income area, or it might be to leverage the Cub pack to help start a parallel program for girls for the Chartered Organization. Another Cub Pack for which I'm Commissioner has had a tag along "den" for children not in a Cub Scout Den. Something like that might be a possible way to go too. I hate to see children brought to Cub Scout meetings left to their own devices instead of having someone keeping them occupied with some kind of worthwhile activities. Short term, perhaps I should bring that up to our Pack Committee. Perhaps someone would be willing to help put on a Tag Along Den program, which might later morph into a program for a regular youth program.

I would suppose the Committee doesn't realize nominating adults is something they can do. As a practical matter, once an election is held can the Committee nominate an adult at a later date if they have neglected to do so? When I was Scoutmaster (1982-1987) thye troop had annual OA elections but I had no knowledge that adults were eligible. I think it was my second year that I was surprised and pleased to be called out at Camporee along with Scouts in my troop. So what practical steps can rldavis take to correct this over site? Should he contact the lodge adviser or chat with the Committee Chair? What specific action should the Committee Chair take?

> Probably a bad strategy. If the council wants to make more money, I wouldn't be surprised if the SMART move would be to increase the payout to units. MORE units might choose to participate, FEWER units would drop out of the popcorn program, and units might increase payouts to families ( directly or indirectly) encouraging families to redouble their sales efforts. My former District Executive is managing the popcorn sale this year. He told me that declining unit participation was a real issue, and we retain the 35% payout --- I think that increases to 38% if units meet an ambitious sales goal set by the council.

Three and a half years ago, I began volunteering with a Cub Pack that consisted of one Cub Scout. The pack is in a critical location and as District Membership Chair I decided we couldn't afford to see it fail. We've been especially effective in growing the number and effectiveness of our adult leaders and parent volunteers. Last Saturday we had a terrific Pinewood Derby that gave both parents and Scouts a very good experience and a lot of fun. Last night we had the best Pack Committee meeting I've ever seen. People were happy with the program and ANXIOUS to volunteer for leadership positions to help continue and improve the program. One parent has agreed to be our new Popcorn sale leader and several people suggested new ideas for activities at our June camp out which they would lead. A one time Pack leader and long time member of the parish is going to be our Chartered Organization Rep and work on making the pack more of a part of the parish community. Monday we have our spring recruiting night scheduled. Yesterday I delivered more than a thousand flyers to ten of the schools in the area of the pack --- if I'd had more flyers it could have been twelve. I'll be visiting four schools at lunch to promote our recruiting night, which will have boys and parents decorating an egg and then dropping their package off a balcony to see if their egg survives. A number of schools in the area are heavily Hispanic --- up to 60%. For the first time I have an invitation on the back of flyers in Spanish ----I'd like to see if we can attract more Hispanic./Latino families to the program, which is chartered by a Catholic parish. We still have problems, but it is really nice to see some successes happening as well. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Personally, I don't see difficulties in having a more or less common program, especially when you start out. Leveraging the success of one unit to start another is just common sense. At some later time perhaps there would be an interest in dividing a a single group into the constituent parts. Or perhaps not. Personally, I think Scout units tend to be too isolated and atomized. As a district volunteer, I'd like to see successful units take more interest in starting and supporting units in less well served areas that may be near them. Perhaps a Scout Troop should look at starting a Cub Pack in a nearby area, and help get that started. In my case, there could be another Cub Pack in an area a couple of miles away. The Boeing Machinist's union has a terrific building and could serve as a Chartered Organization for a Cub Pack serving union members and the surrounding low income community. If I got my Cub Pack fixed up so it was running well (not there YET) I might ask them to expand their program to that second area to help get a new Cub Pack started, which might eventually be chartered on its own and independent. Anyway, I'd like to see Scout units looking at ways they can help Scouting expand by using their current resources and leadership assets. Helping to serve girls of Cub Scout age with a twinned program of some kind seems pretty natural as well. If such a unit thrived and wanted to be independent, well.... Fine!

Ummm. Forty years ago by age 22 I had participated in election campaigns, public demonstrations of all kinds, had a BA in political Science, attended major party caucuses, district and state conventions, supported and opposed changes in laws and initiative campaigns. My nephew is currently a Sophomore in college and plans to major in political science. He has done pretty much none of these things to my knowledge, and the only political issue I've ever heard him discuss is his preference for vegetarianism. The Tea Party movement of older Americans captured a generous amount of control over the Republican party and came fairly close to nominating one of its own as the party nominee for President. The agenda of the OWS movement was mostly about getting into fights with the police and was characterized by an explosion in the rat population where ever it camped out. The young generation seems pretty helpless in political skill and energy compared with their wily elders. That will cost 'em.

In another ten years I predict that the 'boomer generation that began by promoting the slogan "don't trust anyone over thirty" will wind up seeing the wisdom of promoting a program of government supported ancestor worship.

I'm guessing Basementdweller is PEA GREEN with envy when he reads this thread...

Often I look through various council websites for interesting information. Here's a history of the Allohak Council in West Virginia I found to be interesting: http://www.allohak.org/index.php/about/council-history

> How did you "start taking girls" in Cub Scouts?

Well, the short answer is I don't know for sure what I mean by "twinning." Like many Cub Packs, we have several girls who attend den and pack meetings but don't have a real program of their own in which to participate. Twinning might mean a program for those girls, held in conjunction with den and pack meetings, outings and activities. We had a couple of girls who made Pinewood Derby cars Sarturday and raced them, for example. Any reason why that shouldn't be encouraged? I'm making an effort to recruit more Hispanic families at out spring recruiting nigh next Monday. I'm told Hispanic families want more of a program for the whole family, and perhaps a parallel AHG program might fill that bill. If the pack committee were interested in that, I don't see any reason why the AHG and Cub Scout program couldn't be run jointly, collecting dues from families and paying membership fees to BSA and AHG from a common treasury. This isn't a plan --- I'm just considering options and possibilities.

Personally, I have no objection to recognizing those who make substantial financial contributions to Scouting. I'm guessing most aren't actually being bought by recognition, and are simply being recognized and thanked for their contributions. My favorite was Bill Gates getting the Silver Whatever It Is national award a year or two ago. He received that award at a well attended $100,000/plate dinner. My only regret is that someone didn't send me a ticket....

I look at the various councils in Washington state from time to time for program ideas, activities and such.

Why do you want to make the change?

> I might do just that. As a leader in a Cub Scout Pack chartered by a Catholic parish, it would be nice to have a parallel program for girls, who are tag alongs in the pack and somewhat neglected. I'd be interested in seeing an AHG program to see what it's like and to see what I could learn, at a minimum. It might be possible to twin an AHG program with the current Cub Scout program.

Hello howarthe, This spring I will be doing an "egg drop" as the activity at the recuriting nights I run. I get permission to visit the target schools at lunch and hand out stickers inviting boys and families to the recruiting night. These are usually supplied by your District Executive at no charge. I'll have a decorated egg and describe how boys will be able to decorate and package their egg at the recruiting night and then drop it off whatever high point is available to see if it survives the drop. Boys can strongly relate to a task and competition like that! A ladder is the default, with the boys climbing the ladder and dropping off their package. Parents help the boys package their eggs as an example of a fun Cub Scout family activity. Interested families have a chance to join the pack during the recruiting night. It is all too common for Cub Packs to fail to develop and use good methods to recruit new boys in the spring and fall. I hope you'll post the methods you use and the results you get with your recruiting efforts. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> What? How did that come to be?

There another issue, too. I've heard repeated reports that Girl Scout staff often discourages men from participating as volunteers and program leaders. IF that's true, isn't that rather gross discrimination against men that would justify rejection of GSUSA? While GSUSA is famously accepting of lesbians, do they discriminate against male homosexuals or just male heterosexuals?

Getting new Tiger Cub Dens started and started effectively every year is a key pack leadership responsibility, but there is no special training in how to do that. Too often the job is done poorly, and you have new adult leaders like the one starting this thread having a tough time, or the Tiger Cub Den never getting started or dissolving. We really need to do a better job at that. Many good ideas are discussed in this thread, but these kinds of issues should be dealt with in September, or even April or May when new Kindergarteners are initially recruited. This is not something National addresses either in training or program guides. It's a big hole in the Cub Scout program, in my opinion. I've described my own solutions: 1. Spring recruiting and forming a Bobcat den of new Cub Scouts and parents to get new families started in Cub Scouts right 2. Tiger Cub Camp twinned with Cub Scout daycamp to again provide new Tiger Cubs and Tiger Cub Partners with an example of what a quality Tiger Cub Program looks like, feels like and how to make it work. 3. Tiger Cub Den Leader training offered during the summer to prepare newly recruited Tiger Cub partners to assume Tiger Cub Den Leader positions or to help make their Tiger Cub Den work. My aim is to have those new Tiger Cub Dens up and ready to go in September with a quality program. That doesn't mean that's easy or will work all the time, or that my methods are the only way to go ---they aren't. But we need to do a better job of getting those new Tiger Cub dens started and running with excellent programs, in my opinion.

One of the most popular activities at our summer camps are troop canoe swamps. The Scouts go out in canoes and swamp each others canoes and then get back in, bail them out and do it again. I would say that's EXCELLENT safety training for canoeing.

My experience is that it's a mistake to be a Cubmaster and Den Leader both. You need enough detachment to be able to observe dens for problems and to be available to help if help is needed or you see problems. After spring recruiting April 3rd, I'll be forming a Bobcat Den of most newly recruited boys and families. The idea is to show boys and parents what a quality program should look like and feel like, and it gives me the opportunity to size up new parents for leadership positions. We also will complete the Bobcat requirements in time for all Cub Scouts to form their new dens for next school year at our early June overnight camp.

This year one of my projects is to get contact information for fifty people residing in the district who are signed up for the new Scouting Alumni program. I'll be contacting them and working to convert them into registered BSA leaders, with an emphasis on filling district positions. Ask your district chair to do a Friendstorming session at a district leader meeting, with everyone encouraged to suggest names of possible new district leaders. We did that a year or so ago and came up with fifty names ---although no one followed up on contacting those people. As a district Membership Chair I'm in contact with a variety of different unit leaders, most of whom need my help. I often question them about identifying pack and troop adults to help fill various unit positions. A parent who takes recruiting flyers around to different schools can be thanked and asked to do another task. In my case, I was a former Scoutmaster who volunteered to help a Scout Troop as ASM in March, 2004. A unit leader suggested I attend the Roundtable one month, which I did. the next month he suggested I attend the District Leader Meeting, which I did. The next month at the October, 2004 District Leader Meeting, the District Executive pitched me on being the District Membership Chair, a position I've filled since then. District Executives get occasional leads on people interested in being Scout Leaders from websites like beascout.org. My District Executive used to e-mail those leads to me since I had more time to pursue them than he did. So I'd contact those people and find out what kind of things they might be interested in doing, and find a place in Scouting for them. (Of course, completing the adult Leader App and background check are especially important in such cases). Let me know when you exhaust those possibilities.

You can't do better than the "Outdoors" post. Getting new Tiger Cub Dens started WELL is a challenge every pack faces every year, and too often it doesn't go well. As a district leader, I organize our Tiger Cub summer camp, which is for two evenings and one afternoon along with the Cub Scout Day Camp. My main purposes are to show parents and Tiger Cubs what a quality Tiger Cub program looks like and feels like, with the hope that parents will go on to replicate that in their packs. Last summer I had twelve boys and their Tiger Cub partner in the camp. The first thing we did was to allow boys to choose which of two dens they wanted to be in --- I was lucky and had two dens of six each. I immediately appointed two interested parents to be den leaders for each of the six boy dens. During the evening, each den made their own den flag and had a den cheer, and each den had a specific name (Saber Tooth Tigers --always popular). We'd had a couple of competitions between the two dens which began sparking pride. Parents of course help with the den yell and such too. The second day I also had different parents agree to be den leaders. The third day, afternoon with the Cub Scout Day Camp, one den had no parent volunteer to be den leader for the day. I said, "That's too bad. We are ready to go and shoot BB guns but we can't do that without a Den Leader. Ten seconds later, I had the needed den leader. So one key is to have activities the boys and parents really want to do. And parents really need to have a role in Tiger Cub activities. They should be MEANINGFUL partners, their presence and help obviously necessary. Competitions with Tiger Cubs and their parents competing against others is a good strategy. Usually the smart move is to ask a specific person to do the task you need done, rather than asking people to volunteer. I'd offer people some choices about what you need done and listen carefully if they refuse. A good reason for refusing would have me offering another task to do in most cases. I might make it clear that helping the den is a condition of den membership. I would consider suspending or dropping someone if the parent wont help for no good reason. Unfortunately, there are plenty of Tiger Cub Dens where the Den Leader hasn't mastered the art of shared leadership.

The comments I see in this thread do not support claims that the writers expect AHG to disappear. It supports the theory that such writers are afraid it will GROW and be successful.