SeattlePioneer

> Generally speaking, women are pretty free to exclude men and fathers from their home in particular, and often from their children if they are no longer desired by the mother. We have mother dominated and controlled families these days, by and large. Men are expendable and disposable. Often women feel they can try to trade in or trade up to another man at relatively low cost and risk, so they are encouraged to try this strategy.

Congratulations on identifying effective methods to find new Scouts and on doing the work needed to take advantage of those methods. Relatively few Troops have the sophistication to do those kinds of things. Just out of curiosity, are you in an area with a significant Asian, Latino or African American population? If so, has your Troop been successful in recruiting among these populations?

You sound like a very valuable Cub Scout volunteer. It's relatively rare for a Cub Pack to have a Publicity and Membership Chair. Are those positions regularly filled by your pack or are they positions you created when you filled them? May I ask what kinds of activities you did as Publicity and Membership Chair?

The pack policy should be followed until and unless it is changed. You could offer the unhappy parent an opportunity to sell the pack committee on a policy change I suppose. What incentives do the Cub Scouts have to sell tickets?

Perhaps sooner or later you will begin to understand the comments that have been made, BSA 24. Right now they are going right over your head.

Why does the politically correct crowd on this thread feel entitled to refer to OA leaders as "overweight white guys" repeatedly and with impunity? That seems like insensitive and racist stereotyping to me. No matter how true it might be.

Hello packsaddle, Of course the legal profession takes pride in their idea that some abstract concept of truth is not the goal of their profession. Instead truth is supposed to be revealed as best it can through the legal process. The lay public often finds that hard to swallow, if not corrupt. Expecting the legal profession to give up their idea of how the truth is determined through a clash of advocates WOULD be naive, I expect. I have other issues with lawyers, but that's not one of them.

When I returned to Scouting as a volunteer in 2004, the first Troop I volunteered with had some issues I didn't care for. I considered staying with the troop and working to achieve the things I thought were important. I decided not to do that, and transferred to another troop a mile away that had other issues, but which was doing things I supported. You CAN fight city hall. Sometimes it may be worthwhile. But I'd seriously consider the alternatives.

Just to throw out an idea: Suppose you had an OA crossover ceremony that used Scout skills in a mock rescue? Have Arrow of Light Scouts in their den, with the OA Scouts in uniform and equipped with packs for backpacking and a climbing rope slung over their shoulders. The Webelos Den Leader stops the Boy Scouts and asks for their help in bringing the Cub Scouts into Scouting. The boys Scouts get out their climbing rope and tie a bowline into the rope, throwing the rope to the Arrow of Light Scouts, who put the loop over their shoulder and get pulled into Boy Scouts one by one, receiving whatever tokens of Scouting when they have been received among the Boy Scouts. That kind of thing would be richly redolent of the images and promises of Boy Scouts, illustrating Scout skills and teaching what to do if someone tosses you a rope in an emergency. Generally, Cub Scouts LOVE any opportunity to be pulled around by someone else, is my experience. I can imagine Arrow of Light Scouts finding that fun, and exciting the interest of younger Cub Scouts to be pulled into Boy Scouts that way one day. Just an idea...(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello JM, Congratulations on your recruiting sucess! It DOES tend to be difficult to recruit non Cub Scouts into Troops. That makes your fine success all the more commendable! What methods did you find helped make that success possible, may I ask?

Hello Two Cub, I had a parent who had just joined Cub Scouts this spring who agreed to read a story at our next den meeting. When the meeting night came along, her husband said she was working and wasn't able to do what she agreed to do. Well, that was rude, and it was inconvenient for me. I had to wing it with the story. However, one of the learned methods of leadership in Scouting is to check up on people who agree to do things and be sure they are ready to perform --- I didn't do that, so I share a measure of responsibility for that failure. So yes, it takes some time and experience with people before you can rely on them to do what they say they will do. It takes a while before new families make an emotional commitment to supporting Scouting. But that tends to come along over time. Not with everyone, but with quite a few people. That's different from the bad behavior I heard described earlier though, I suggest.

Hello BSA, Sorry, I've never observed the acceptance and tolerance for rude behavior in any of the units with which I've been associated. In fact, one of the things about Scouting that I like is that in my experience both youth and adults are usually on their best behavior. One of the reasons for that is that usually Scout units don't overstress youth and leaders to the point of emotional breakdowns. Parents can learn improved ways of managing their children that don't involve yelling, let alone hands on discipline. Parents usually see their children at their best. Children usually see their PARENTS at their best. Both can be an education for the other. So I would describe the kinds of rude behavior you describe as being rare in my experience.

> The program of each unit is unique. How can you mass market a program that is unique to each of hundreds or thousands of different units? You may be able to create a generalized interest, but you aren't going to be able to have people sign up on a website and then be assigned to a particular unit. Each unit is too distinctive, I think. Scouting does do some mass marketing to create an image. Council's typically offer staff assistance for unit organizing campaigns, leaflets, yards signs and flyers. But the sale is made when parents and boys attend those recruiting nights, or when families invite friends to join their unit. That's what I see as a District Membership Chair since 2004. I don't see any short cuts. The biggest variable is the quality of the unit program.

I joined an Eagles chapter in 1999. I found they were pretty much an eating and drinking club, which had no interest for me. I let my membership lapse at the end of a year. I rejoined Scouting in 2004 at age 54, after leaving in 1987. That's been just what I was looking for --- making a contribution to a quality program that benefits the community and providing me with quality activities to participate in with people who are generally on their best behavior. By 2007, Scouting was competing with time I spent self employed on my furnace repair business. So I sold off the business and retired. That's worked out well for me.

Hello bnelon44 I haven't noticed that myself. If boys can complete First Class in a year, fine. I've tended to notice a good deal of variability in when boys achieve First Class myself. Boys who aren't prepared in swimming tend to lag. Boys who aren't participating in camping trips ought to lag. Personally, I concentrated on having a quality program myself. Secondarily, I used outings as opportunities to help with specific advancement requirements and getting those signed off. But I wasn't especially concerned if boys took extra time, although I usually looked over what the reasons might be for that lest they be neglected for one reason or another. I'm not a big fan of FC1Y. It tends to encourage a cheesy program, not a quality one, from what I see. Still, I don't doubt some units do it well. They would probably do it well in any case.

The squeaky wheel apparently still gets greased. Two or three years ago, the youth baseball interests proposed to cut a chunk off of a "wilderness" park that the green interests were building up. Wow! There were LOTS of wheels squeaking over that one! I thought that was amusing, and I hope the green interests got gouged in the end on that one, although I don't know how it shook out in the end. Apparently it's true --- if you build it they will come, and come and come! (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I used to play tournament chess in high school, and was a chess organizer in college. Quite a few elementary schools around here have chess clubs. If I had the time, I might try visiting one of those and trying out a method I think would be good for teaching chess to young players especially. Rather than playing an entire game, I'd start by setting up stock chess positions -- King and rook vs king, pawn and king vs king and so on, letting youth learn how pieces move and how end game strategies leads to wins. I'd think that would lead to winning and losing a lot of games rapidly, which would be fun, and also learning something about the how the game works. After that try some games with all the pieces on the board and see how that works.

Unfortunately, it's quite common for units to delay or to neglect registering youth and adults. Probably that's a combination of the nuisance of getting applications completed and processed and avoiding spending money for registrations. The only time quite a few units get caught up is when rechartering. Perhaps others leave people off the books even then. I suppose this is the mirror image of Councils that add phantom Scouts to the membership that they claim!

I was recently appointed as a Unit Commissioner for a Scout Troop that has been around for decades. I've found they have good leaders and a quality program, but they are very weak on recruiting. I'm a Treasurer for a neighboring Cub Scout Pack. There are currently four 2nd year Webelos who are membership prospects for the Troop. The Webelos Scouts have been invited to participate in a mountain hike in July, with the hope of getting them to participate in Boy Scout activities. I've found one adult leader who is interested in recruiting new Scouts, and as the District Membership Chair I will be working to put together a fall recruiting campaign for the Troop. It's not at all easy to recruit new Boy Scouts who haven't been through Cub Scouts. We'll give it a try. Unfortunately, a lot of Cub Packs and especially Scout Troops do a poor job of recruiting new boys. It's one of the leading causes of unit mortality.

I've seen OA groups doing ceremonies for Cub Scout Packs on a number of occasions. I've never noticed much interest or understanding of the ceremonies even among Cub Scouts. If you can't work up much enthusiasm among Cub Scouts, I'd say you are on the wrong track.

The original post is unreadable to me --- at least too impenetrable to attempt to parse. Hard to believe that a MSW, a professional trained to be analytical about social situations and to write literate reports on the facts could produce such a post.

Part of the challenge of Scouting for leaders is creating an interest in uniforming among youth and parents. Part of the challenge of Scouting for youth and parents is finding ways and means of satisfying the desire they have acquired for uniforming. That necessarily involves choice, to my way of thinking. It's too easy to just say you hafta be in a full uniform or else. Or else WHAT? As I've noted before, as a unit leader I start each new boy with a neckerchief and slide. The pack makes about 2/3rds of popcorn sale revenues available to Cub Scouts and families for Cub Scout expenses, including uniforms. I like to think we are partners with families in making Scouting affordable. Those who want to can pay for most or all of Scouting expenses, including uniforms, through the popcorn sale. THRIFTY is a Scouting value. Ideally boys should be able to pay for Scouting through their own efforts, and we use the popcorn sale to make that practical. Uniforming is only one of the methods of Scouting. It's all too easy to exaggerate it's importance, but it needs to be considered along with other Scouting methods and values.

> This sounds like the complaints of the WWII generation about my baby boomer generation. I remember the contempt being returned --- "Don;t trust anyone over 30!"

As a unit leader, I find it burdensome to get a youth registered --- and hugely burdensome to get an adult leader registered. What a pain in the neck.

I've seen parents who were HIGHLY motivated to have their boys join Cub Scouts while he was in Kindergarten. And VERY disappointed to be told no. In one case, the very disappointed parent called a recently appointed District Executive, who said it was OK. THAT wasn't easy to correct. No doubt there are some Kindergarten children who would do fine in Tiger Cubs, but then again some who think they would do fine wont. I think the age limit there is a good one, but I would create a big stink after the fact unless there were actual problems that needed to be dealt with. I wouldn't borrow trouble.