SeattlePioneer

The Congressional Charter is just prestigious fluff. It's amusing to see liberals grab at any and every straw in their desperate hatred of BSA and the things it stands for. Pathetic. And no matter what they do BSA has continued to stand for what it believes to be right, persevering against every attack. The very model of what it means to be Brave.

> It seems to me that paring a Cub Scout Pack and a Girl Scout or American Heritage Girl unit together is a good way to accomplish that purpose. That would allow the program to be optimized for girls and for boys.

Oh, I imagine scandals of various kinds and descriptions will be in the press and politics. It takes some time for things like that to mature.

I'd be inclined to send them a letter regretting their decision, but noting that records of their obtaining Eagle have permanently expunged. While "Once and Eagle, always an Eagle" is the norm, I think you have to respect a decision made on principle.

I fully support bthe right of the British Scouting movement to set their own membership policies. And moosetracker, I'm sorry to see you throwing around term "bigot" for those who support the membership policies of BSA. As I've noted before, if BSA chooses to change their membership policies with respect to homosexuals, I will support those changes. Do you remember the day you decided to support homosexual marriage? Were you a bigot the day before that?

> I don't see that the Congressional charter is of any practical significance beyond an endorsement of Scouting by a political body. But I suppose liberals who are unhappy with Scouting may wish to repeal that token. Perhaps you should have gotten Obama to do that in 2009 when he was enacting much of the homosexual agenda in Congress while neglecting the economy.

> I've proposed having an AHG unit for girls and a Cub Scout unit for boys managed by a common committee and running separate programs, probably in the same church parish hall. Would that still meet your preference for having separate programs for girls and boys? I'm supposing that the program material could be shared between units when appropriate and have different programs when desired.

> I have no expertise except very limited first aid training. "First do no harm" is the general rule in such situations. Washington State has a Good Samaritan law that prevents amateur aid givers from being sued if they are acting within the limits of their training. The law and common sense is counseling taking no action unless you have some degree of expertise upon which to base your actions. So I wouldn't use someone else's epi pen on someone in distress. Sure hope they get better with what aid I can provide them. I suppose many may recover without that intervention.

> Why start a new group when all you have to do is join Girl Scouts?

Hello Packsaddle, Too busy this year. My emphasis is on recruiting Latino families during the next year to see if I can make that program work. Maybe next year for adding an AHG unit to the existing Cub Pack. I'm sure there is more to learn about doing that in any case. I started investigating methods of recruiting more Latino families about October, 2010, so it's taken me close to two years to figure out promising methods to do that task. Better to carefully think about methods, ways and means and have a well planned program tends to be my bias.

> I've never been part of a troop that had a formal adult patrol. We were probably weaker because of that. Without a formal patrol structure, adults tended to cook for themselves, or in small groups. The opportunity to model patrol spirit to Boy Scouts was missing. It also should help keep adults out of patrol areas. So I see adult patrols as a good thing. Probably ought to be a formal part of the program. If I entered into a troop that had an adult patrol as a tradition, I'd respect the tradition and cooperate with the adult patrol. If I were a SM, I might welcome adult leaders who might form an adult patrol. As for COR reps, they really aren't Xperts on the needs of the program. They might raise the issue with the SM, but really shouldn't be trying to direct the program in that way in my opinion. In short, I'm with those who regard the Uniform Guide as a guide, not compelling rules.

I wouldn't use the epi pen from the second Scout if it were offered to me, let alone take it by force. I would be guided by the law and the limits of the training I have, which doesn't contemplate using an epi pen on someone for whom it's not prescribed.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> Optimal for selling cookies, perhaps? I seem to recall seeing Girl Scouts wearing vests decorated with badges, troop numbers and such. That seems like quite a practical way of displaying Scouting bling.

As I've noted before, I'm currently interested in adding an American Heritage Girl unit alongside the current Cub Scout Pack and managed by a common committee in the interest of both units. That would provide a program for girls in addition to the current Cub Scout program for boys. One advantage of this is that it's practical to do NOW. Another is that having a separate programs aimed at girls and boys seems like a superior method to a single program that combines girls and boys, with program compromises that don't serve either in an optimum fashion. Why change to a less than optimum method when the optimum method can be implemented now?

> If a unit wants to honor a long serving Scoutmaster, I wouldn't stand in their way. But that experience is probably used more effectively elsewhere than burying it in a unit. New leaders need the opportunity to develop their own program, and having the old SM hanging around is a common impediment to new leadership. > It's certainly different than being a unit Scouter, and sorry if it didn't work out for you. But it might well be an excellent place for a former SM to provide service to Scouting.

Hello BSA24, Scouting has always been about a lot more than "The Outdoors." Sorry if you never noticed that. I think you outline the liberal agenda for BSA quite well, and it makes the point of why trying to compromise with that agenda is a waste of time. Planned Parenthood collects $1 billion/year from government while carrying out its various programs. Efforts by the right to defund Planned Parenthood haven't worked either --- so far.

The Chartered Organization for my Pack is a Catholic Church. It's not an issue for the school districts I deal with. Being able to invite girls and boys to a common recruiting night would be a plus. As a practical matter our Cub Pack has almost no references to Christianity. I'm not familiar with AHG materials, but I imagine the same thing would be followed as far as program goes anyway. I see no reason the two programs couldn't be run by a common committee approved by the Chartered Organization.

"Inclusive" is a red herring. The purpose of adult leader screening is to screen out people. Girls are screened out in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Atheists are screened out. Overweight people are screened out on some trips. Smokers are screened out in limited ways, as are those who drink alcohol. Leaders under 21 are screened out in many positions. Tiger Cubs not in 1st grade are screened out. Illegal immigrants are probably screened out from leadership positions. Nice try bringing in a new issue, but it doesn't wash.

The Scoutmaster Emeritus patch is the Unit Commissioner or other district leadership patch.

Hello Baden P, Oh I bet I can! I'd be doing joint AHG/Cub Scout recruiting and I'd just invite the girls right along with the boys. We have a rocket launch sign up night scheduled for September 12th. Bring you parents and have a great time building and launching rockets!

When I do Cub Scout recruiting in schools, girls are more aggressive about join than are boys, and disappointed when told they can't join. However, I think there are good reasons for keeping Cub Scout dens boys only. A parallel American Heritage Girl program to offer a Scout like program for girls alongside Cub Scouts would be a better choice, in my view. I'm looking at having a single committee which would organize Cub Scouts and AHG units together, sharing program where it's practical and desirable to do that. The Chartered Organization for both units would be the same. Recruiting for both Cub Scouts and AHG could be done together for example. That's my current preference which I'm investigating.

> BP fought the White Africaners who were Xperts with the German Mauser rifle. It's the same continent, though. "Zulu" showed the value of even rudimentary fortifications. The previous day a regiment of a thousand British infantry were pretty much wiped out by the Zulu infantry when caught out in the open. A few years earlier Custer was being wiped out at the Little Big Horn.

I think a good deal of the problem of losing older Scouts is that they have achieved what Scouting promised them when they joined. That's first of all learning to be competent hikers and campers --- the Trail to First Class. Beyond that, leadership and Eagle are programs a good many Scouts will take up and that troops are commonly able to provide. For older Scouts, though, interest are a lot more diverse and it's probably harder to find a common program and expertise to lead meaningful programs on robotics, engineering, medicine or whatever. Explorers made it possible to participate in some career fields in meaningful ways, as does Sea Scouts. But it's probably hard to provide programs of that kind within most troops.

> That's probably good advice. Larger troops may have or develop specialists for these kinds of activities. Perhaps OA should be organizing activities like this that Scouts from around the district will find it attractive to join in.

I'm guessing a pierced nipple will heal up pretty rapidly, while tattooing is a lot more difficult to get rid of. People do foolish things and devise and follow foolish fads. I'd say you did your best to offer him wise rules and counsel. He has to live with the consequences.