SeattlePioneer

Often I have a bone to pick with craft projects selected by lady leaders. Usually they are rather artsy but with little practical value, while I favor practical practical projects that boys can customize or decorate if they wish. In my experience, men tend to choose that kind of practical project, and boys are usually more interested in that kind of project. Also, Cub Scout love to use new tools and equipment, and love to make some kind of practical gear they can use. My latest idea---- making custom hot dog and marshmallow roasting sticks. I find wire frames for plastic signs littering roadsides, and I pick those up. Have Cub Scouts use bolt cutters to trim off surplus wire so that you have 18" of so of straight steel wire. Use garden loppers to cut branches from a tree. Have Cub Scouts use garden loppers to cut sections of tree branches that are 12-18" long and half to 3/4" in diameter. Use a drill to drill a hole in the end of the branch section the same size as the wire. Boys glue the wire into the hole in the branch section. You now have a hot dog roasting stick which can be customized and decorated in lots of ways by Cub Scouts. Personally, I'd keep these as Pack gear since they need to be used under supervision to avoid possible misuse as weapons. I'm thinking about making these as part of a pack hike scheduled for Saturday. This will be a hike to a beach at low tide, but I like Cub Scout hikes to have several different activities and I like to end hikes with a hot dog roast. Making hot dog roasting sticks could be a part of the hike and used for the hot dog roast. What inexpensive craft projects have worked well for you or your den or pack?(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I make up a variety of awards to give to boys and adults on suitable occasions. Upon joining the pack each boy gets a colorful neckerchief and slide that their parent helps them put on, so they will be "in uniform" right away. I cut about 20 neckerchiefs from a colorful sheet bought at a thrift store, and the slides are sections of tree branches with a hole bored in them. I've made "Cub Scout Hero" medals to award to parents for doing good things. In this case the Cub Scouts help pin the medal on the parent. The medal is a ribbon stapled to a section of a tree branch that has been sanded and marked "Cub Scout Hero."

Churches were often leaders in opposing "scientific" Marxism and now they are often leaders in opposing "scientific" liberalism. "How many divisions does the pope have?" sneered Stalin. A later generation of scientific Marxists discovered --- a lot!

> In all Beavah's examples, the possibilities of bad outcomes is always "small" and the bad outcomes never happen. Beavah's always does the right thing because he decides it's the right thing, no matter how bad the outcome may be. No law or rule will constrain Beavah's unlimited self confidence. As I said earlier, he is welcome to act as he pleases. I think it's often foolishness myself. Plenty of people die each year entering burning houses or drowning when they thing they are going to help someone. Often they are the only fatality in such situations. Frankly, I don't think it's heroic. I think it's reckless and stupid. But you and John Ponz feel free to dive on in.

Perhaps it's worthwhile to consider Cub Scouts in the light of our modern families: Many modern families have no father in the picture. Cub Scouts can give boys a quality male figure and experience in their lives. Many modern families are small, with one or no siblings, and perhaps no brother for a boy. Cub Scouts can provide a band of brothers in a den, and perhaps an experience with a reliable older brother in the form of a Den Chief (Boy Scout volunteer with a Cub Scout den). I've had a number of moms tell me they highly value having men as Den Leaders. Unfortunately, we've had no success attracting Den Chiefs so far.

Hello JMHawkins,

Hello Fred, You raise a lot of interesting questions. Personally I wouldn't try to combine a pack and troop committee, but strong communication links need to be there. I recently got myself appointed as Unit Commissioner for the neighboring troop while continuing to serve on the pack committee. That's allowed me to satisfy myself that the troop has an excellent program, but badly needs a regular recruiting plan and needs to make an effort to attract the four Webelos II Scouts we have this year. As UC I'm attending troop committee meetings and building bonds between the troop program and the Webelos II program. I see no reason to promote other troop programs. If someone asks, I'd provide information. I'm working to get some Boy Scout participation in the troop. I'd like to promote the idea of some Boy Scouts attending our pack recruiting night and running our Stomp Bottle Rocket launch as an Order of the Arrow activity and wearing OA sashes. In general I would direct Cub Scouts to a troop with a quality program. Secondarily, a troop that supports the pack and the pack program. Thirdly I'd like to support weaker troops rather than already strong troops if they have a quality program. Fourthly I'd provide information about neighboring troop to Scouts and parents upon request.

Congratulations on your achievements!

> The hypothetical I proposed was that a person applied a tourniquette when it wasn't needed, which caused an arm or leg to be amputated. Somehow I don't think the parents of the one armed boy are going to be saying "Thank you!" But if you want to lay your hands on someone's kid to do medical intervention you aren't trained to do, help yourself. I'm simply saying that's not something I would do myself. > Throwing a drowning person a rope is very different than injecting a child with medication for an adult. It's really foolish for you to try to conflate the two issues.

** Yawn ** Another non news story.

He sounds like an exceptional young man. Whether Scouting will be able to provide suitable continuing challenges is an interesting question. Leadership experience as a Patrol Leader and Senior Patrol Leader might give him useful experience. Beyond that --- hard to say.

Rather commonly the Girl Scouts doesn't like to have men in their program ---- even fathers. Apparently gay men are OK though.

John and Beavah both presume that dosing a kid with an adult dose from an epi pen will save his life, not kill him. But it might kill the kid. The diagnosis of a layman can easily be wrong. Suppose Beavah doses the kid with the adult dose from an epi pen and that kills him when Beavah's diagnosis proves to be in error and the kid is suffering from something else. Sorry, I wouldn't dose the kid. I don't know enough to know what's going on and the law is loudly saying "DON'T DO IT!" One of the risks of passing a lot of laws is that people might pay attention to them. Sorry, not me.

> In this case there are detailed laws that govern such situations, at least in this state. People really aren't free to just use what seems like reasonable judgement. Although what you do for your own son is quite different from what might happen if you take action involving someone else's child if you don't have the permission of the parents.

> Yes, that seems correct to me based on this discussion. I've now concluded that the "rules" advocates are mostly just plain wrong. The "rules" are mostly properly regarded as guidelines providing guidance which leaders may, or may not choose to follow. Unfortunately, along about tomorrow we are going to have new "rules" advocates snippily proclaiming that everyone who isn't zealously following every rule is a bad Scout leader, which is annoying.

This material should be shipped to the BSA Central Repository For Surplus Eagle Project Materials at Irving, Texas. There it is preserved in amber in case it might be needed for maintenance on the Eagle project during the next 10,000 years. OR You can use common sense and dispose of it in whatever way seems reasonable. If you sell it, I'd be inclined to contribute any cash raised to the organization benefiting from the Eagle project. I'm not aware of any "rules" on such an issue, although I'm sure I'm mistaken and someone will post some.

I would too. Personally, the Tiger Cub Knot is among those I value most highly. And it's among the most distinctive, at least for me.

I think this discussion has pretty well proven that "rules" stated in BSA literature should be taken as recommendations or guidelines rather than as commandments by leaders. This raises the issue of how many such "rules" should be taken in that light. When is a "rule" a commandement and when is it merely guidance for a leader to consider?

Hello Walnut,

Hello qwazse, > Ummm. I am even more familiar with the program collapse syndrome. Well meaning people figure someone else will step forward to do a needed task, but no one does. Usually I am taking action to FIND someone to do a needed task and only step in if no one else will do it and the alternative is program collapse. When I do step in, I'm usually looking to find new leadership to take my place as soon as practical.

As additional evidence that BSA anticipates multiple registrations for district leaders, I cite the "Journey To Excellence" program, which has several references to district leaders including commissioners having multiple registrations: Total number of traditional units (packs, troops, teams, crews, and ships) on 12/31/12, divided by total number of all unit commissioners (paid or multiple registration with position code 80) on 12/31/12. Performance improvement is the difference between the total number of unit commissioners on 12/31/12 and 12/31/11, divided by total on 12/31/11. Total district committee members, including District chairman (61), District vice chairmen (62), Neighborhood chairmen (64), District members-at-large (75), District committee members (79), and District commissioner (81), with paid or multiple registration on 12/31/12. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/mission/JTE_District_Requirements.pdf

> Heh, heh! Personally, I look to "the rules" as a guide to what I do. Usually they are an effective way to do things and I can avoid reinventing the wheel. Sometimes they don't work and I'll consider doing something that violates them when that seems like like a better or necessary thing to do. In the case of Youth Protection rules that appear unreasonably rigid and arguably harmful when followed in detail, I make an exception to that rule of reason. Reporting youth to the police and Scout Executive for foolish "sexting" or passing around porn at Scout activities seems extreme. However, Scouting has been subjected to legal and public relations attacks for not taking such issues more seriously. Perhaps early reporting of incidents might avoid more serious incidents at a later date. AND BSA has gone to extraordinary efforts to train every leader in detail over their YPT rules and get a receipt to prove people have been trained. In the light of those exceptional reasons, I think those rules deserve to be followed despite the fact that they seem excessive. But that's the exception. Relatively few other rules are managed with such care, and because of that seem more like recommendations or guidelines to me. Scouting places great emphasis on recruiting people with good judgement. Why bother if we are just to be by the book rule followers?

Hello John, > Your faith that how things are on paper is how they work in the real world is amazing. There is probably no more impotent group around in Scouting than CORs. I understand that on very rare occasions that have coalesced into wielding some real power, but that is very rare indeed. In practice you have three groups in a council which have power. You have the professional Scouters, including the Scout Executive, you have the suits on the council Executive Board, who often have real positions in the community and control over money, and you have the volunteers who organize the Scouting program. The CORs are notably absent from these groups.

> I'm guessing they were both beavers?

> Of course Japan's culture is different than our own. Conflating our own politics with those of Japan was intended to underline that fact in a humorous way. Sorry if you didn't apprehend that motive.