SeattlePioneer

Perhaps The Chief Scout Executive can get together with the SAT and AP people and lobby the Congress to allow those say, 14 years and older to sign up for student loans for Eagle Scout Prep, SAT Prep and Ap tutoring and such. Of course, no bankruptcy out when the loans come due.... Seattle Pioneer

Surely this program is for adults? A good many adults need to build up their skills and strength to carry their son into the Eagle's nest and could use coaching on how to do the minimum of an Eagle project and such!

I seem to notice more emphasis on Disneyland like high adventure camps than there used to be ---- high cost Scouting. Personally, my bias has always been towards low cost Scouting. At least around Seattle, there are more miles of trails and mountains than any Scout is going to do for a lot of years. Why go jetting someplace else? I never could figure that. But tastes differ, no doubt, and those who want to go to Philmont or a National Jamboree are welcome to do so.

I think the answer is yes, with varying degrees of choice. Just in the past couple of months my council announced it is requiring activities more than an hour away from a hospital ER to have someone certified in Wilderness First Aid, quite a burdensome and expensive credential to obtain and maintain. I'm about at the end of my Scouter years ---- If I were at the beginning I don't think I'd get involved. Just too burdensome for leaders to be worthwhile. And a lot more of the same is ahead, as far as I can see. Perhaps that's going to be the favored method for restricting more adventurous outings --- just make them unreasonably burdensome for most units to do.

Just say no, thanks. I see no reason to suppose the adult is going to be an asset and a problem adult can create lots of trouble. If he leaves --- 'bye.

I think I'd encourage the boys in the band to form a band patrol and hold band patrol meetings in conjunction with band activities and outings.

Hello shortridge, Yes, I think too often the program for new boys is aimed at replacing a troop program for new Boy Scouts. And these programs are so often available across the country at Scout camps I would suppose this kind of program is designed as a summer camp program by National, although that's a guess. Hawkrod has a program he likes for new Boy Scouts. Frankly, I can't tell too much how it works from his description. To me, learning about camping can be a combination of teaching, practice and experience. Ideally you will have older boys teaching new boys the skills, and then coaching them as they practice those skills. Ideally this is not artificial practice, but the process of setting up camp on an actual trip. After boys get that coaching, they then practice that skill till they can do it reliably themselves.

Hello OGE, I see National promoting the idea of First Class in a year, and they do so in the context of saying that those who complete First Class in a year are more likely to stay in Scouting. I think that's their aim and objective. Shallow trail to first class programs at summer camps are a part of that formula, in my opinion. Else why are they so common? I would suppose they are a part of the National program for summer camps. Those are my conclusions, any way. Perhaps boys who complete First Class in a year stay in the program because, What the Hell, it's only another year to get Eagle and I'll have another line of my resume!

Unfortunately, summer camp tends to set the standard for advancement. I think this is partially a byproduct of National's interest in gettign boys to 1st class within a year after joining the program. When I was Scoutmaster nearly thirty years ago, it was common for boys to take 2-3 years to complete First Class. We had a monthly camping program and both encouragement and instruction on requirements through First Class, but it was up to the boys to learn the skills. When they did, they were signed off. In my opinion, the real Scouting standard is First Class, not Eagle. The promise of Scouting is to make boys competent at hiking and camping --- the First Class requirements. In my book, Star, Life and Eagle are just polishing the skills boys should have learned by First Class ---although Eagle does add leadership skills and requirements.

> It's a selfish attitude, of course. If a lifeguard certification is required for swimming (increasingly the case), it may well be that no one will be able to go swimming. I don't think a person has an obligation to keep up the increasingly obnoxious variety of certifications that are being spun out, but I do think it's selfish to take the training and avoid the certification. I think this is covered in the "a Scout is helpful" category.

> I can't say I'm very impressed by this line of reasoning.

> So 83Eagle, The Rattlesnake Roundup was a little too much?

As district Membership Chair, I conducted a model recruiting night at our March Roundtable. Pack leaders were invited to attend and bring their Cub Scout to our Stomp Bottle Rocket Launch, the most powerful means I've found to attract the interest of new Cub Scouts. I helped three packs do spring recruiting using the rocket launch, including my own. They signed up 10, 9 and 13 new Cub Scouts. The 13 were all Tiger Cubs and my pack signed up six new Tiger Cubs. In my pack, new Scouts join the temporary Bobcat Den for a few weeks so that boys can complete Bobcat requirements and parents can learn about Cub Scouts by doing it. That includes a hike and hot dog roast. Before our June Roundtable, I offer Tiger Cub Den Leader training for any new parent who can be persuaded to attend. In July I conduct our district Tiger Twilight Camp with the aim of giving new Cub Scout parents experience in leading activities. Starting Tiger Cub recruiting in the fall is too late to reliably start new dens, in my opinion and experience. My aim is to get packs started in the spring and then to give them the ideas and leadership that will get those new Tiger Cub Dens formed in the spring and summer so they will be ready to go with a great program in the fall.

> Please tell me how Tiger night is organized.

Encouraging participation in district or council activities during the summer sounds like a summer pack program to me....

I'm with Shortridge. That said, the instructor could have done better. I'd be sure this was reported to the Camp Director who may want to evaluate whether this staffer has adequate intelligence to do the job. Question--- I'm consider approving the Merit Badge applications when the Scout turns 15 if it's withing the next 6-12 months perhaps. Any opinions on whether that would be appropriate?(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I schedule our district Tiger Cub Den Leader training in.... June. Just did it this past Thursday before our Roundtable. We had four people attend, two people each from two packs. That's despite several e-mails to pack leaders pointing out the advantages to packs of promoting this training shortly after new families have been recruited.

What has been your experience forming new Tiger Cub dens for your pack? What kinds of problems and issues have you had? Any comments on the on-line training if you've looked it over? What kind of training has your district or council offered?

I was a trumpeter in high school. I did a little bugling on my trumpet when I was an adult leader in the 1980s. One Scout was really interested in being troop bugler and earning the bugling Merit Badge and begged to be able to borrow my trumpet so that he could practice. That was the last time I saw or heard my trumpet....

The most intriguing Scout program I've heard about is on St Helena Island about half way between South Africa and Argentina --- this is the island where Napoleon lived out his last days. I understand they have a Cub Pack and Scout Troop, chartered out of Great Britain. I haven't found an e-mail or mail address for them though.

Youth protection rules would seem to REQUIRE that tents and sleeping areas be segregated. Not by sexual orientation though. Formally allow homosexuals into Scouting, and I imagine YP rules would be updated to require segregation by sexual orientation as well.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Sasha, Well, if it works reliably for you, go for it. But an active summer program is an important part of many quality Cub Pack programs, and helps keep those Cub packs functioning on a high level. And it gives boys and families quality experiences --- one of the purposes of Cub Scouts. Folding up a Cub Scout program during the summer seems like a strange idea to me. I would say you are a relatively rare pack that dispenses with spring recruiting and a summer program and still keeps things working well.

I'm imagining an animatronic Kudu at the Scout Museum, commissioned by the Chief Scout Executive, and only making polite and supportive comments about programs coming out of the national office.

I've never been a Webelos Den Leader, but I'll discuss how I imagine I would like to run that important program. My aim would be to run it like an easy Boy Scout program. A good Scout troop does a camping trip per month. That might be somewhat too much for some boys that age ---- I'd like opinions on that point. If so, perhaps aim at having a camping trip every other month. Conduct as many of the camping trips in conjunction with various Boy Scout troops as possible ---- treating the Webelos Den as an additional Patrol in the Scout Troop as much as possible. Conduct as much of the Webelos Advancement requirements as possible on camping trips, using Boy Scout and Scout leaders as instructor/leaders as practical, and setting up exercises in the field so that boys are learning by doing and not by sitting on their behinds. Attend our district Klondike Derby, and compete with other Weeblos Dens on the competitions. Ditto the District Camporee. Look for districts that have Webelorees and attend them when practical. Make meetings about getting ready for the next camping trip, and schedule meetings as visits to Scout Troops fairly often if you don't have a camping trip coming up soon. Let the boys pick the pack meetings and activities they would like to attend, and the ones they do not want to attend too. Is it OK to complete the AOL requirements during the Webelo I year? If so, aim to do that. Give the Webelos Den increasing responsibility for planning their trips including meals, and start shifting leadership responsibilities to the den when practical. Find out which Troops boys are most interested in joining. As the Webelos I year and AOL requirements are completed, move the Webelos program into that Troop so that Webelos develop greater experience with the troop program and Boy Scouts. The actual transition into being Boy Scouts may then be almost seamless. That's my Webelos program as I imagine it in my mind. How practical does that sound?

There is an unpleasant bias among our educated elites to sneer at religion, and this latest prediction certainly brought out that bias. I seem to remember a Robert Heinlein short story about such a prediction and a person who sneered at it. At the appointed time he happened to look up at the sky and saw the stars winking out.... Along the same lines, I see all manner of predictions of Armageddon from asteroid strikes comet strikes, global warming, super volcanoes, new ice ages, global pandemics, super bugs, nuclear terrorists and whatever. Really, FAR more predictions of armageddon than religion cranks out. It seems to be a part of the scientific method these days to get funding. Scare the socks off a gullible population. Exactly how is that different than this latest religious guys prediction?