SeattlePioneer

Two Cub Dad has an interesting approach if yu think the WDL is salvagable, Moostrackers approach to replacing him if he's not. As CM, I raised concerns about changinf from a Bear Den program to a Webelos Program in another thread. The current Bear Den Leader is overburdened and probably needs more help to do a suitable Webelos camping program. So I've e-mailed my CC and begun discussions about how we can get the information we need and discuss these issues with the Bear DL. The CC and her husband are good friends of the Bear DL and I expect can help get those channels of communication open that I haven't managed. Once we find out what to do, we can start talking to den parents to get the help needed to make the program work. I was feeling stuck when I couldn't communicarte with the DL. Someone posting pointed out that other people, notably the CC can do that too, and better than I in this case. It may be that this kind of assessment needs to be made routinely when Bear Dens transition to Webelos, because the programs ought to be quite different to accommodate the interests of boys outgrowing the Cub Scout program.

Report this to the Camp Director, who should put a stop to it right away. The Camp Director hires, manages and fires the camp staff.

Another reason to avoid general appeals for volunteers is.... the wrong person can volunteer. That can REALLY be a disaster! The general recommendation is to carefully identify the BEST PERSON to fill a position --- and ask that person! Can you really afford to have ANYone assigned important responsibilities, or do you need the BEST person to do those tasks? If you reaqlly go for the best person, you can often get them to agree. They will KNOW they are the right person for the job, and that makes a difference.

Good kick in the pants, Scout Nut! The Bear Den Leader has been in Scouting with his son for a year, and Den Leader since school started last fall. He's had some triumphs, like a pizza baking night where the Scouts rolled out and baked their own pizzas --- THAT was a winner! But too often he's been plugging away at the Bear Den requirements. We scheduled three Den Outings during the year when the dens planned their own activities rather than having the pack do that --- the Bear Den had some good outings. As I mentioned, I've invited the Bear Den Leader out to talk about Scout Stuff, but had no positive response. That's left me somewhat in the dark and frustrated. Perhaps I should give hima call on the phone and try to chat with him that way ---not recommended but perhaps better than nothing. What he may need is an Assistant Den Leader or two who can help in planning Webelos outdoor activities. I think there are people who will help with that if encouraged and asked. I've beeen supposing that was a task best left to the Den Leader, but it hasn't happened so going on to Plan B might be best. Thanks for the ideas & the kick in the pants! I have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done but was getting stuck on how to get started. If I were WDL I'd be running it much like an easy Scouting program --- with meetings mostly about getting ready for the next camping trip and advancement activities a part of the camping agenda. But I'm not, and I can't really impose that kind of program on a Den Leader. I'm trying to figure out how to square that circle.

I've been working for 2 1/2 years to revive a pack that was down to one Cub Scout. We've been building a solid base of families and pack leadership, and my aim is to give up my CM position at the end of the year and expect the new leaders to carry on. In past years, I've relied on two devices to majke the task of organizing outdoor events easier: 1) Three or four months are reserved for "Den Outings" organized by each den. 2) Taking advantage of district activities, such as our Cub Scout Bowling Tournament, Cub Scout Marble Tournament and District Pinewood Derby. This year we organized our own PWD and made that a simple and fun event. The aim is to have one major or outdoor event each month which includes the den outings. I avoid scheduling multiple major activities in a month, since families ten to choose one to do rather than two. Twice the work for half the participation. Also, in past years I've pretty much written up my own plan of activities and meetings and submitted it for comments and revision to our pack parent/committee meeting. That allows us to agree on a plan in a one hour parent meeting, and I've revised the plan to fit proposed changes. This year we have a parent meeting scheduled for July to propose a plan for the next Scouting year, and then the August meeting to review the proposal and changes made in it. That will be giving parents greater room to make revisions. I expect to propose a meeting schedule and different ideas for outings and activities. I plan to continue the Den Outings for three of the months or so. We did a bicycling outing a year ago, but not this year. I'd like to schedule another for next spring. I'd like to schedule a fishing trip. I'm a zero fisherman, so we'd need to identify a good person to plan and lead that trip. I'm considering a chemical rocket launch activity ---REAL FIRE! I found a pack that does this and they will be inviting me along to learn how it's done, and I'd like to find a parent who would be the leader of that kind of event to attend as well. It may be that parents will have other ideas they would like to add. Last year a family invited the pack to a Harvest Festival, which included making apple cider families took home and we had cider for our Blue 'N Gold dinner and Pinewood Derby. We seem to be doing reasonably well of building up a roster of experienced and able leaders who will be able to manage the pack on their own in the future. Since we have larger number of experienced parents, they can make more choices of things they'd like the pack to do.

Our district doesn't have many effective Unit Commissioners, but I know the model will work, because I'm one of 'em! I've been UC for a pack since 2004. When I was first asked to assist, the Cubmaster Who Didi Everything had left and no one even has a roster of families. We developed a roster of new families and leaders over a period of three years or so, and we've had effectice Committee Chairs, SM and other leaders ever since. My most important role has been to organize spring and fall recruiting each year. Other than that, the pack leadership keeps things going very well. But I've contributed ideas as UC that leaders have picked up on. I've been promoting the idea of forming Bobcat Dens of new boys and families recruited in the spring. The SM gave that a try this spring and tolod me last night all ten new boys recruited in late March have earned their Bobcat Badge and have been sorted into their regular dens. I've also been promoting the idea of appointing Scout Parent Coordinators and making it their task to recruit new families to help as pack leaders. Usually it's an overburdened CM or CC who recruits new people to help as a last resort. A couple of packs are now using this person as their regular person to fill tasks large and small that need to be done. When I run across ideas or e-mails that are interesting, I forward them on to pack leaders who might find them useful. When a new CC or Cubmaster comes on board, I keep an eye on how they are doing and will be a sounding board and aid if they are having trouble figuring out what to do. Unfortunately, there aren't racks of experienced Scouters willing to help out like that. When I took over as CM of a troubled pack, I signed up the departing SM as the UC. He has helped from time to time, but he doesn't want the crabs to pull him back into that pot!

Hello Scout Nut, It's easy to say it's easy and no problem, but it IS a problem. I find the Webelos program to be the poorest run by a lot of packs --- too often at best it's run like another Cub Scout year. That causes boys to drop out rather commonly. As Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, I had a capable Webelos Den Leader in to explain how to make the program work. This was publicized to pack leaders and I sent it to my Bear Den Leader, but he didn't attend. Making that transition from Cub Scouts to Webelos is not intuitive and a lot of packs and Den Leaders don't make it work in my experience. By contrast, KISMIF_Works obviously has run an outstanding Webelos program. My congratulations on his program!

That's easy to say Scout Nut, but I think a lot of WDL would have a hard time scaring up a panel of Adult Activity Counselors to help them out. Personally, I wouldn't hand out badges that haven't been fairly earned. I would simply ignore them unless I could make them a fun part of the program. I have a good hearted Bear Den Leader who has been struggling along all year and doing a pretty good job. But I suspect he's not going to transition well into the way the Webelos program ought to be run. I've been encouraging him to plan a camping program and attending our district Klondike Derby and Camporee and such, but he hasn't committed to that kind of program. > There are resources among the parents, but unfortunately my Bear Den Leader hasn't managed to tap them, and I can't manage his den for him. If a Webelos Den Leader tries to continue a Cub Scout Program, the boys will usually drop out. My preference is to encourage a camping style program and de emphasize the pins and such if a choice has to be made. I've offered to meet with my Bear DL and chat about the program over coffee, and have not been taken up on my offer. As a busy CM, my ability to oversee his program is limited. The den has been gaining boys in recent months, which is great. But I'm worried about how the change to Webelos will go. If I were the WDL I believe I could get the help needed to do the job, but my Bear Den Leader hasn't managed to recruit an Assistant Den Leader this year despite my encouraging him to do so.

Hello Desertrat, As I described earlier, I've tried to make most Roundtables about a specific topic pack leaders NEED to know about. I've tried to recruit pack leaders who are Xperts about the subject to be presenters and publicize the topic so those that need the information will be aware of it. For example, my August Roundtable will be about how to effectively manage the popcorn sale. The presenter I have so far is a ten year old and his Cubmaster father who sold $4400 of pocorn and won a trip to Disneyland for the family by being the top seller in the council. My March program was a model recruiting night in which pack leaders were invited to bring their Cub Scout to make and launch stomp bottle rockets, recommended as a way to attract new boys to recruiting nights. My standard is to have a program so compelling that people will decide it's worthwhile to invest their time. My problem is that I have only so many of those kinds of topics that I can identify, and I've pretty much used them up. As I mentioned earlier, I really don't care much for the Roundtable program guide. It lacks the kind of vitality I look for, and frankly I can't create a fun atmosphere on my own. I can't really make that program work for me.

Personally I think the Webelos program is 'way too complicated for a lot of average WDL to manage. Many just aren't going to have the varied skills or be able to manage all the teaching required. That leaves a choice for WDL --- turn Webelos meeting into school going over one requirement after another, or dispense with many of the requirements and concentrate on learning hiking, camping and other outdoor skills or fun activities. My choice would be #2 by a country mile. IF you have a WDL who can do it all, great! If you don't concentrate on having fun activities for the boys. They will still learn a lot more than "school" programs.

There is a Roundtable Commissioner's Guide, which mostly I don't use and don't care for. I want to identify issues which Cub Packs often need help with, or superior ideas they can use to improve their programs. I dentify the Best Practices in the district, and spread those ideas around. I liked Moosetrackers idea of identifying excellent summertime pack activities, for example. Do that as a program in March or so and you might get some of those packs that have no summer program started on one, and give other packs some new program ideas.

> One wonders how long it will be before this spills over into forums like this, and then into school papers. At least in theory it could completely transform written English communication.

The past year I've been the district Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner ----by default. No one else interested. There were a few things I was interested in doing. One was to see if I could build up attendance to a respectable level, which I did. One method I used was to limit Roundtable to no more than an hour. Oftentimes it had dragged on to ninety minutes or longer, which I think discouraged participation. A second thing was promotion. I sent out e-mails to pack leaders keeping people informed of what the topic would be. My most important contribution was deciding what pack leaders really needed to know about and finding the best Xperts in the district to discuss those topics. This could be recruiting methods one month, and making stomp bottle rockets as a pack activity another month. In August I'm planning a Rountable on the methods to effectively manage the popcorn sale. I was just thinking that the June Roundtable would have been a good meeting to discuss Pack annual planning. I'm pretty much fresh out of ideas after August, and the DE is going to have to find someone else to take over if the Cub Scout Roundtable is going to continue. I have offered to help as an Assistant Roundtable Commissioner. What topics would you like to see your Roundtables cover?

> It's always easier to do it yourself. It's a fatal slippery slope, just as you describe. Usually there ARE people who will help if you look for them and keep them happy. It's easiest to start with new parents who have just joined the pack. Frankly, I'd start by replacing that Committee Chair at the next recharter. The CC is a key person, and your CC has exactly the wrong attitude. You need to have a good Cubmaster and a good CC. When one is planning to leave, the other needs a year of good experience so as to be able to help with the program continuity when the other moves on. That's my experience, anyway.

Interesting questions, Two Cub. As a district membership chair, I confront failing units all too often. I see a variety of weaknesses which lead to failure, but not a simple or consistant pattern. I worked to revive one pack that had the classic "Cubmaster who does Everything" syndrome. When he left, none of the remaining parents even had a pack roster. It took about three years to revive that pack by gradually finding capable volunteers, and it continues to have a wide variety of capable adult volunteers. My main role there is another chronic pack weakness ----organizing consistant and effective recruiting nights in the spring and fall. I find the failure to have effective recruiting efforts to be the most consistant thing that leads to failing packs. Perhaps that's why councils and District Executives place a lot of time and effort in plugging that weakness. But DEs can't solve that problem by themself if the OPack isn't also providing effective leadership. Another source of weakness is changing demographics. The pack for which I'm Cubmaster now was down to one Cub Scout, although it had a long history and substantial base being chartered by an urban Catholic parish of substantial size. But many schools in the area are 10% white ---- if you aren't effective in recruiting hispanics and asians around here, you are going to be in trouble. That's one area I've tried to deal with without much success on my own or any aid from the council ---although I've been raising the issue as LOUDLY AS I CAN! As far as Commissioners --- our district is under Commissionered and too many that we do have are ghost Commissioners who don't do much. I used the need to get a new Committee Chair for rechartering as a lever to recruit an EFFECTIVE committee chair, but it's all too easy to reshuffle the ghost leaders of the past if someone wants to, which disguises a leadership problem rather than revealing it. Unfortunately, I find that there are dozens of easy ways for a unit to fail, while it takes consistant good leadership to thrive. I'll give an example of how I work to address just one of those issues: One of the consistant problems faced by every Cub Scout Pack is the need to recruit, train and motivate new Tiger Cubs and Tiger Cub den leadership. Fail to do that and you have a big hole in your program which can pretty put the pack on the road to failure. As district membership chair, I've made particular effort to sell units on doing SPRING RECRUITING, which a good many Cub Packs don't bother with. Secondly, I schedule Tiger Cub Den Leader training in June (June 9th this year) -------AFTER the bulk of spring recruiting is completed. I sell pack leaders on promoting this training, and the DE sends training announcements to Tiger Cub parents who turn in applications in the spring. The Den Leader training is aimed at training any adult in how to make the new Tiger Cub Den work. Secondly, I encourage participation in our Tiger Twilight Camp in July, and use that to help train new Tiger Cub parents in understanding what a quality Tiger Cub Program should look like and feel like. The Tiger Cub Den Leader training provides a technical look at how to organize the Tiger Cub program, while the Tiger Twilight Camp provides a look at how the program should look and feel when those principles are applied. The aim is to have Tiger Cub parents who are trained and experienced in making the program work READY TO GO in the fall. Too often I find that it can be months before the new Tiger Cub program iss effectively launched, and too often it fails altogether. My program is a way to try to avoid that kind of problem.

I'd have to say I don't agree with the Alpha Dog model. Among the characteristics of an active poster is having the time to spend on the avocation. I'm retired, myself. I have the time. Another is resiliance. You are going to get slapped around and beaten up on these boards if you proffer your opinions often enough. If you can't deal with that and defend yourself and your ideas, you probably aren't going to last. That also means you can't take your own bright ideas too seriously. There are often a variety of good ideas out there, and a variety of ways of dealing with an issue. A part of that is being willing to search for the truth... or truths. To get the valuable opinions of others, you have to strike flint with a steel --- which produces sparks. In Scouting, I try to avoid being an Alpha Dog. I want other people to participate and see their ideas and efforts used and appreciated. As best I can, I'm always looking for the next person to be a leader and take over an activity, and I'b be glad to turn over anything I do to another person who would be interested in doing the job and has a certain minimum level of promise or competence. That's the way I see myself, anyway.

Does your pack go through a pack annual planning process? What do you do well and what ways would you like to see things improved?

The new writing standard is the text message. Unfortunately the standard is illiteracy.

I'm not much on decorative gardening, but I can work up enthusiasm for attacks on invaisive weeds from time to time. I got rid of a patch of bamoboo that was overgrowing a sidewalk I use. I cut it back repeatedly over a period of seven or eight years and it slowly faded away. I'll go after English Ivy in a forest from time to time. My current project has been getting rid of a patch of Himalayan Blackberries that was overgrowing a street. They grow like crazy in Seattle, and in August there are thousands of tons of big fat sweet blackberries that can be harvested and are great to eat. The rest of the time they are a nuisance. I went to war with this patch about ten feet by a hundred feet and cut it down last year. Yesterday I dug up a few of the root balls and mowed down the regrowth with my lawnmower. Another year or two and I will have it killed off for as long as I care to keep tending it ---- but it will be back after I am gone.

The secret to being a Tiger Cub Den Leader is remembering that Tiger Cubs can be interested in ANYTHING! For five minutes ---ten minutes tops. Get a copy of the Cub Scout Tiger Cub Den Meeting Planning sheet and use it to plan your meetings. It carries you along from activity to activity with elements that repeat from meeting to meeting and others that are new each week. It's well worth following in my view. Tiger Cubs is the best year of Cub Scouts, and the easiest to be a Den Leader.

When camping, parents start by carrying most or all the load to camp. As the years advance, the boy carries more. But just when the parent might expect a little help from junior---- he doesn't want to be seen in the company of the old man any more!

Hello Committee Chair, While I don't approve of the actions of your Tiger Cub Den Leader, neither do I approve of your methods of saddling him with a fund raiser. As Committee Chair, you need to improve your methods of recruiting volunteers. There are a variety of proven methods for doing that which you should investigate and use.

My pack is chartered by the Catholic parish and meets in the church parish hall. Mostl families are not member sof the church, which probably results in some questions, usually unasked, about how non church members will be treated. When I explain what the "Duty to God" means for the pack, I give two explanations: 1) a duty to respect the religious traditions of your family 2) a duty to respect the religious beliefs of other families. So a family that wished to not say the Pledge or participate in birthdays would be free to do so, no explanations needed. And similarly, families that didn't say the Pledge or do birthdays would not be able to impose those beliefs on others. Even steven, I think. Never had a problem with that. Not so far, anyway.

Hello Anne Laurel,

Hello Sasha, Teaching children basic information such as their parents name and address seems like a good idea to me. Lots of Scouting requirements could be taken as implied criticism of parenting, if a parent wants to take it that way. Actually, I think a good deal of Scouting winds up teaching parents improved ways to parent children. That's not an explicit goal of Scouting, but I think parents can hardly not notice the ability of a Scout leader to quiet a large bunch of boys with a non verbal gesture, to mention just one thing.