sctmom

God had already decided to destory Sodom before Lot had guests. God saved Lot even though he was willing to throw his virgin daughter out to the men of Sodom. Is that moral?

OGE, It's not about supporting the flag, it's about the phrase "under God" which was not added until the 1950's. Even before the "under God" phrase was added, people questioned the constitutionality of making school children pledge allegiance to the flag. To some religions this is blasphemy. Remember the pledge was not written in 1892. According to some reports, it was written because people were not feeling very "patriotic". Also, getting school children to salute the flag each day would increase the chance of people buying a flag and increase interest in the flag. Many reports also say the writer was a Socialist. I agree this is a tough one to figure out. I don't understand why a person cannot just skip the words "under God"

Can you take the pack expenses and divide by the number of boys to get a per boy expense for the year? Then take the amount each Webelos earned, subtract the per boy expense, and that amount will be transferred to the boy's account at the troop level. You also need to figure out if you are going to do this every year when Webelos crossover. Personally, I think the troop should start new and fresh, even with the same CO. Just my opinion. The first year my son was a Cub we benefited from past year's fund raisers. The last year he was a Webelos, the money we earned went to support the Pack and all incoming Cubs. Seems fair to me.

My son is a picky eater but at campouts and an overnight field trip with the school he didn't starve. He found something out of every meal he could eat. My son will try foods he sees the other kids eating. He is also beginning to understand that as you get older your taste change, so try the food, you might like it. You need to flat out tell this mom that she is NOT to bring special food for him, if he does not have a medical problem. If that is not acceptable then he does not attend campouts and camp. End of conversation. Her visits are disruptive and her son will manage. The one thing I didn't see listed in your email (but you may have anyway) is fruit. But I have a feeling that would not satisfy this child. I once saw a quote that said "Scoutmaster Rule #47-No boy ever starved to death on a weekend campout".

In a letter from Thomas Jefferson to The Danbury Baptist Association in 1802: Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature would "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. One of Jefferson's proudest accomplishments was the Virginia Statue of Religious Freedom, an inspiration for the First Amendment. "...that our civile rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry;" "the truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error,..." "Be it...enacted by the General Assembly that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shal be free to profess, and by argument maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge or affect their civil capacities." Let me also recommend you look in the library for a set of books by Britannica called "The Annals of America". It is about 20 volumes of documents from 1492 to 1986 about the United States --- letters, speechs, laws, essays, newspaper articles, etc. A lot from our "founding fathers".

Need that blood pressure to go up a few notches? http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/26/pledge.allegiance/index.html

I'm not Mormon but I saw this article recently online about a man charged with polygamy in Utah. He has 5 wives and 29 children. The CNN article says: Polygamy's legacy in Utah dates back to the 1840s, when members of the Church of Latter Day Saints, as the Mormon church is formally known, first settled in the state. But the practice never gained wider currency outside the Church. By 1890, the Church banned the taking of multiple wives, with the penalty for offenders being excommunication. Utah's constitution formally outlawed polygamy as a condition of statehood. But despite the ban, polygamy never died out in Utah. An estimated 30,000 polygamists, most of them in Utah, live in the American West, according to the Associated Press.

Scouting For All does not speak for everyone who thinks the gay ban should be lifted. I believe they also want girls to be in BSA at all levels. I will very quickly tell you that Boys and Girls need their own scouting programs. As far as atheists go, I am torn. I have been trying to educate myself more about the religous background of scouting and about atheists and other religions. I believe in a higher power, but think atheists can not believe if they so choose. Yet, there seems to be a lot in scouting that you cannot seperate from spirituality -- appreciation for nature, giving service to others. When I first became aware of the "gay" issue in scouting (after my son was a member), I thought about should we continue to participate since I do not agree with the ban. I do not feel that my son is danger, morally or physically, because of the ban. When he becomes aware of it, I will explain that I do not agree and explain both sides of the issue. He is welcome to disagree with me. Many of you feel that if a gay person is allowed as a registered leader that the boys are in danger, morally and/or physically. Therefore you would leave because of this danger, and rightly so. In my case the benefits of scouting far outweigh the "risk" to ME and MY SON of this one policy. If gays are allowed in and you are for the current policy, your risks are much greater. I believe the best about people and feel the scout leaders are not teaching him to be homophobic. If they are telling him to be homophobic I would remove him from that troop immediately because they should not be discussing sex with him. That's on the same logic of why we stayed away from the troop that had adults with bad language and bad attitudes. I felt he was in danger around those people. Does that make sense in explaining why many of us do NOT leave, even though we disagree with the policy? The other thing is that it concerns me that the Scout Executive has supposedly said that if the membership numbers drop he will reconsider the policy. That is the wrong reason to change the policy! That seems to go against so much of scouting values -- being brave in the face of adversity, standing up for your principles, etc. I would hate to see it changed just because of numbers. I hope that he was misquoted on that.

John, Tell your wife that being obsessive seems to be a common trait among Scouters. Stay focused on what is best for the boys and hold your course. Continue to get advice from the experienced Scouters on this board and get local contacts in the District and Council. I think TwoCubDad has some good advice also about "just do it". Somebody has to start setting the example. Good Luck.

Bubbabear said he didn't want women as SM or ASM. It is okay at the Cub Scout level but after that women should be only on the committee. He later gave a few examples of bad role models. I think he was referring to all those incidents being done by women. Our troop is fortunate that we have many active parents. The troop has a lot of active dads as ASM's. We also have some men whose sons are no longer in scouting. We have lots of active moms. One woman is a registered ASM. The rest of us are Committee Members, along with some of the men. On campouts I have just as much authority as the male ASM's. I'm glad my son has the chance to be around men in Scouting. Especially when you consider most school teachers are women. He needs to see men in these roles. He needs to know his sweet-talking, looking-cute ways will not work with the guys. It doesn't always work with women, but he gives it a heck of a try. I also feel that I can teach and encourage boys in Scouting. As in any team, each person has things they are good at and things they are not so good at. On the average many women are not effective at sounding stern. Yet, we are more effective at lending a kind ear to the scout who is missing his mom on the campout. So, we should all think about where we can truly help the troop and then do the best job we can. We shouldn't worry so much about people's gender. Even though a part of me was interested in attending Summer Camp, I refuse to go. Many of the people who knew me from Cub Scouts were amazed that I was so adament about it. My son needs a week with "the guys". He needs to be away from Mom. He needs to be away from Grandma (the other place he stays a lot). He knows which buttons to push with us when he doesn't get his way. :::stepping down off this soapbox:::::

I was debating about starting a new thread on this when I saw OGE ask Bubba some more questions on this topic. Why is it okay for women to be leaders at the Cub Scout age but not once the boys become 11? Why is it okay for the women to handle the paperwork but they are should not be allowed to EVER work directly with the boys? I will save my commentary for later.

In looking for more detailed information about WOSM's stance on religion and "duty to God", I found a document that was released by WOSM December 2001. I have not read all of it --- it is 78 pages long! You can download it in PDF Format. It goes through the history of "Duty to God" within Scouting in great detail. So far it seems well written and well-researched. Go to this link http://www.scout.org/cgi-bin/fs?f1=/navwso.html&f2=/wso/strat/strathome.html Then click on "Leader's Library" that is on the left part of the screen. You should see a list that starts with "The Basics of Scouting". Click on that to be lead to a paragraph about the document and to download it.

Per the U.S. Scouting Project: Whittling Chip: In return for the privilege of carrying a pocketknife at Cub Scout functions, I agree to the following: I will complete the Shavings and Chips Achievement 19 in the Bear Cub Scout Book. I understand the rules for safe use of a pocketknife. I will handle my pocketknife with care. I will always close my pocketknife and put it away when not in use. I will not use my pocketknife when it might injure someone near me. I promise never to throw my pocketknife for any reason. I will use my pocketknife in a safe manner at all times.

I don't know of any gay families around my child. We do have some bi-racial families in the area. I think that raises more eyebrows from the parents than the kids. But is just as controversial for many. As parents we do have to address such things with our children on an age approriate discussion level. When it is talked about depends on what your kids have seen or may see. We can't go through life thinking our children will never be exposed to beliefs different than our own. Seems that anytime I'm around other Scouters, Scout Parents and Scouts we are way too busy to be discussing personal lifestyles and beliefs.

Oops, I meant have never witnessed it. Sorry, my mind and fingers were not communicating very well.

Personally, I've never heard these topics discussed locally. I'm sure some kids are exposed to it, but I have witnessed it.

As a parent of a scout, I hope the Scoutmaster will encourage my son to work on badges he is ready to work on. Especially as a new scout. I was thinking about that this weekend. Being a new scout my son needs to be focusing on scout skills, but earning merit badges is fun and rewarding for most boys (and girls). As I'm getting to know some of the boys in our troop, I'm starting to see certain merit badges they could work on. Badges about things they would have a great interest in but still be challenging. I see some merit badges I will point out to my son soon that he should work on alone. I think some of the boys and parents think they just work on the ones offered during troop and council activities and at summer camp. If my son wants to work on a badge that will be difficult for his age, I hope the Scoutmaster will discuss it with him before just signing the blue card. My 2 cents worth.

Could you approach them with "Having some Scouting experience, I would like to offer some suggestions to make Scouting more fun for the boys"? Then bring up the patrol method, positive games for the boys to play, importance of uniforming. Volunteer to be the one to gather information about training in the fall and the one to get copies of the current BSA manuals so everyone can start reading up on how things are done. Just a thought.

Bob gives good advice. Ditto what he said. Finding another troop is easier than starting your own and well worth your time.

OGE, You just gave me one of the best laughs I've had all week -- picturing an "old grey eagle" in his disco suit doing THE Travolta disco pose. So when we see the "fashions" of some young boys today we should realize that in 20 to 25 years their kids will look at the pictures and laugh, saying "I can't believe you dressed like THAT". Around 1990, my then teenage nephew swore he would NEVER wear bell-bottoms. Haha. A few years later he had some on that looked like Gilligan. About cotton --- being from Georgia, I still have a hard time realizing that cotton is NOT king. The thought of wool makes me start itching and sweating. I do actually own wool hiking socks now. I do like the new lightweight synthetics for long johns -- not as bulky as cotton.

Thanks for sharing a good story with us. I hope the young man has a successful project and continues with the troop after he is 18. Sounds like a very good role model for the younger boys.

I bought a nice camp size fleece blanket at Wal Mart a few months back. I think it would do well for sewing patches on it. Was less than $10.00. Would have to check the package about flame retardant. The fleece blankets are very popular and affordable now days.

A final update: Jordan Curtis loved baseball. He dreamed of one day becoming an Atlanta Brave. A Tennessee funeral home has honored the 7-year-old's dream of playing in the big leagues by donating a baseball diamond-shaped burial site for him. He was buried Thursday in Lewisburg, Tenn., at home plate of the 625-square-foot infield his mother and father named "Jordan's Field," a gift to them from Christopher Taylor, owner of Bills-McGaugh Funeral Home in Lewisburg. "He wanted to play for the Braves," said Wende Curtis, 27. "He would always say, 'Mommy I am going to play for the Braves and then you will not have to work anymore.' " The complete article is at: http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/0602/21funeral.html

What would the ramifications to BSA be if BSA said "Fine, we don't want to belong to WOSM anymore"?

Thanks! I think much of our society has a "been there, done that" attitude. My son seems to have been born with that attitude! At 6 months old he would no longer play itsy-bitsy-spider once he learned it. You are right that we constantly have to prove ourselves over and over in life. Never can have too much training in safety issues.