RememberSchiff

I would think not a problem ... for a Turtle. 

Let's stay on topic. This is about adult leader physical contact.

More than 250 planes that crashed over US land have never been found - but a team of volunteer detectives is on the case.

Robert Hyman, a mountaineer and explorer, was hosting a party at his home in Washington, DC.

It was December 2007, three months after the multi-millionaire Steve Fossett went missing over the Nevada / California border.

Despite a huge search, Fossett's plane and body had not been found.

For Robert, it didn't sit well. The military don't leave people behind, he thought. Neither do Boy Scouts. So, he said those six words.

Explorers don't leave other explorers behind.

At the same time, Lew Toulmin, another member of the Explorers Club, was walking past.

"When I heard it, it clicked with me," says Lew. "I made a left-turn, right into the group, and said: 'Yes!'"

And that, in a DC house party, is how the Missing Aircraft Search Team (M.A.S.T) began.

Fascinating story and video at source link:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42272952

I'm glad new laws are no longer blaming knives rather locations. It is not an illegal knife, it is a location-restricted knife. 

Your Honor, it's not my fault, my knife was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Seems every winter, I toy with building a snow gun as plan B for a white Christmas. Looks like plan A , let Mother Nature do it, will do.

Sorry, our replies are out of sequence.

Take the scout handshake, I have often heard Dads make comments  like "Why not shake like a man. Aren't you teaching them to be men."  They were unaware of the tradition and its reason.

5 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

In some cultures wearing a certain color is offensive, having women with men is offensive, eating with the wrong hand is offensive, eating during daylight is offensive, doing anything on a particular day is offensive, etc. Picking which customs we will and won’t honor is a slippery slope isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be using accepted American customs? Otherwise we will find ourselves with some local units barring and not talking to women. They won’t be chauvinists, they’ll be practicing their culture. 

But those customs are communicated, do we do as well?

Take the scout handshake, I have often heard Dads make comments  like "Why not shake like a man. Aren't you teaching them to be men."  They were unaware of the tradition and its reason.

Please stay on topic, which is issues with touching scouts in the course of the program.

Since you mentioned snow and football, how about Army using those camoflaged, 10th Mountain Division jerseys!

Go Navy, next year.

Ok then, less bickering please.

So far, our more thoughtful replies have mentioned trust, mutual respect, traditions, stricter CO policies, communication, cultural issues, instructional needs, and a change in parental concerns/fears. 

In the special case of a handshake; it seems a simple act of respect but the person "on the other hand" may not agree.

From Bryan's Tuesday Talkback Feb 11, 2014

...there may be some parents (and even Scouts and Scouters) who because of their culture are not willing to shake using the left hand. There are some cultures, too, that don’t like to shake hands at all. We should respect their wishes.

Some units, meanwhile, have a policy to only use the Scout handshake while in Scout uniform. I can find no argument against that practice and would leave that decision to the unit’s leaders (adult leaders in Cub Scouts and youth leaders in Boy Scouts and Venturers).

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/02/11/tuesday-talkback-who-should-use-the-scout-handshake/

Outside, the snow is clean and peaceful.

@clemlaw,  thanks that is great work-around.

Welcome to scouter.com.  Has your SM given you any specific tasks as a new ASM?

Given the situation, could one bring a friend (two legged or four-legged) along to a training course, who would not be taking the course?

IMHO, somewhere in the first lesson of adult leader training there should be a rule.

Thieves steal from scouts anytime, anyplace. It's so easy. Be vigilant,  protect your scouts, protect your assets.

This story from Portland, OR is another example but with

      a local contractor coming to the rescue, 

      a fundraiser - "This is how our troop pays for the entire program throughout the year. Our boys don't pay for summer camp they have to earn their way to summer camp",  Troop 351 Scoutmaster Mike Benson

      the Governor stops by, 

       the community responds and sales pick up

       and perhaps a girl Boy Scout interviewed.    She was working the fundraiser and appeared to be wearing scout pants.

http://www.kgw.com/life/holidays/samaritan-steps-in-after-grinch-steals-from-portland-boy-scouts/498150606

6 hours ago, MattR said:

 Is that the issue? The time it takes to develop trust between an adult and a scout?

Hmmm, @MattR now there's a thought. Back in the day, before the internet and cellphones, I knew the adults in my neighborhood as I played over at friends' houses and at Little League long before I joined the troop where some of those same adults volunteered. Trust had already been established.

Maybe we scouters now need to ask permission first.

 I found this teaching objective in my diocese Touching Safety Program for teens

They should honor and respect the wishes of others who don’t want to be touched, even when it feels like rejection and hurts their feelings. Learning that others have the right to say “no” and to have their “no” respected is a fundamental part of our character development as we grow into young adults. It empowers us to maintain our own boundaries and to respect and support the boundaries of those around us.

@Amynh welcome to scouter.com

22 minutes ago, David CO said:

I have found the most restrictive policies have been in regard to school playgrounds. Our public elementary school forbids physical contact between students on the playground. No touch games.

So far, these no touch policies haven't been applied to the scouting program. I'm not sure how long that will last.

Local Diocese has "Maintaining Boundaries" policies, mostly for coaches. Hugs and handshakes still okay for coaches, scouters less so.

7 minutes ago, David CO said:

The moderator's instructions to stay on topic, adult touching in scouting, was in response to a member's post about schools prohibiting physical contact.

Since a CO's policies will often apply to the unit, I think some general discussion of changing policies in churches, schools, YMCA's, and other groups that commonly charter scout units, is relevant to the issue in this thread. 

As always, I will abide by the judgement of the moderators. 

Point taken, CO's touching policies as applied to scout units are on topic.

Regarding those policies, I have found church CO's to be stricter with their scout units than the church school was with their sports team. 

Let's keep on topic, adult touching in Scouting.

I have touched Scouts during skills instruction for swimming (swim stroke mechanics),  knots, shooting (postitioning, hold), and First Aid.  Oh I have grabbed and pulled some scouts away from a dangerous situation. Is there a problem?

Touching other the that, nope.  No hugs, no slaps, Scouts can play in the NFL for that.

Kind or not kind?

http://www.3newsnow.com/news/local-news/businesses-worried-after-canfields-annoucement

Their Going Out of Business sale starts today.  70+ years!

"The Mid-America Council, Boy Scouts of America and many of its families have had a close, long-standing relationship with Canfield's Sporting Goods. We continually encouraged Scouting families to shop at this store and are saddened to learn of its closing," said Chris Mehaffey, CEO/Scout Executive, Mid-America Council, Boy Scouts of America.

No word of number of employees who will lose their jobs before Christmas. Other local merchants are worried of a ripple effect with the loss of a major store.

Teaching moment for Scouts?

1. Do the following:

a. Explain four features of the free enterprise system in the United States. Tell its benefits and responsibilities. Describe the difference between freedom and license. Tell how the Scout Oath and Law apply to business and free enterprise

from American Business merit badge    or

8.  Discuss with your counselor the different goals that may motivate the owners of a business, its stockholders, its customers, its employees, the employees' representatives, the community, and public officials. Explain why agreements and compromises are made and how they affect each group in achieving its goals.

from American Labor merit badge

All sides, less bickering please. Thank you.

20 minutes ago, David CO said:

Got it. You want to convince the other adults to come over to your point of view. 

If they are coming in to the meeting with the same goal, to convince you to come over to their point of view, then you are both out of luck. 

 

Good point with scouts in the middle. Maybe these arguments should come from some well-spoken scouts?

My $0.02

Descartes 

Multiple choice tests are easy to correct, but IMHO are poor for learning evaluation.