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Although @Armymutt has grievances, and although others may suggest better or worse ways to handle this, we need to start with one bottom line:

The COR wants situations like these to end amicably. That means, although the past cannot change, leaders in this CO need to prepare their unit to be open to people who aren’t contributing to the life of the unit.

There are limits. The advancement method loses its effectiveness when conventions for account are skirted, but a simple conversation with the scout can clear up if he at least gave requirements a try. Morale erodes when one member shows up at multiple event without paying and does not participate in fundraisers, but those are situations that can usually be put in the COR’s lap. On the whole, life is just better if we comply with the CO and move on.

Our pack typically plans on paying for guests like troop leadership at the B&G, although many of those guests have donated time and $ to the Pack in one way or another.

If the COR says you shouldn't have refused them, then that's it. You can argue about your "if it was some other family" hypothetical when one is at the door. Next year, pad your budget a little for such eventualities.

The most important impact is when this scout may join a troop. If registered but have not completed 5th grade, it's at age 10; if not, age 11. If the youth is 11 already, it's a moot point. But, the troop might appreciate knowing who's available for membership as of a certain date.

Welcome, and thanks in advance for all you do for our youth!

7 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

The TCC was clear that they did not approve of the 72 hour rule.  BSA was never going to exit bankruptcy without this change.  It was one of the changes that switched TCC from rejecting to supporting the bankruptcy plan. 

It was an odd rule.  I'm not able to do nearly anything with the GSUSA without registering.  I think BSA avoided it, like they avoided the YPT training checks for years, to avoid the complaints and moaning from scouters.  

As far as MBCs, they shouldn't be hanging out overnight with the Troop.  ASMs and SMs ... Sure.  I struggle to see why a MBC in that capacity should be sleeping in a tent with a Troop. 

I'm fine with the policy change and expect it will have minimal impact to my Troop.  i wouldn't want a parent or leader near my kids who would object to the background check or registration. e

One of the major complaints I have seen is impact to family camping.... Great!  I've seen too many parents looking to just hang out with the Troop overnight.  If this puts a barrier up so scouting can return to only necessary leaders and scouts I see this as a win.  Having 7 parents and 12 scouts at camporees is just not what scouting is about.

 

Scouters across the nation were clearly doing an end-around and dropping their registrations as direct contact leaders to avoid exorbitant fees. But just because they are now MBCs, many of them are competent leaders who are very helpful to have around. They are just making the registration fees more expensive for the rest of us.

Sooner or later BSA would shore up that loophole. That’s why my troop pays for leaders’ registration fees. (It amounts to maybe an extra hour of the scouts washing cars.) I think it’s kinda dumb and make up for it by providing a little extra here and there, but it removes one barrier to good parents signing on and getting trained.

21 hours ago, RichardB said:

This is not a change in Scouting Barriers to Abuse.   The requirement for an adult female leader 21+ for coed Venturing crews has been around for decades.    …

False. “For decades, “ leaders of both sexes were required for overnight coed activities — two of each for coed wilderness activities where a crew should prepare for  the need to split the group. Other than that a male advisor could certainly hold a meeting with a mixed group of youth, or arrange for another male adult to meet them at the range for a morning of firearms training.

Not even 5 years ago, in 2018, this was extended to include “all meetings,” and the language became one-sided “where a female youth was present.” The latter was to perpetuate corporate double-speak that skirted around “coed.” But, it also was probably to avoid disrupting boy packs (and maybe a few troops) who could only field a pair of female leaders for activities.

Venturing instantly became much more costly to implement for crews whose female adults were not available for every meeting.

14 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Now that is just plain stupid...

Supposing those were assistant Scoutmasters for a Troop.  They are not over 21, nor are they "adult program participants."  So, it's ok to meet with them.  But, the second one of them let's you know they have registered with a Venturing crew, you are a YPT criminal!! LOL

Oh, the humanity 😛

 

@InquisitiveScouter, keep complaining about it and those 19-20 year old ASMs will be reclassified as program participants.

I want to make it clear how much of my life involves deeply personal one-on-one conversations with 19-20 year olds of the opposite sex. It is very hard for some young adult women to navigation their world — many are facing abuse, caregiver burdens, financial stress — and they open up about it to very few people. They often look for second father figure and, along with their friends, arrange a meeting with him. Sometimes that person is me, often I can rope a second elder into that conversation, but often time is of the essence and we can’t ill afford time to screen that fellow qualified elder by sex.

This is how the real world works and will continue to work. By imposing this kind of restriction, BSA will remove itself further from meeting the needs of young adults.

31 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

This one snuck in when the other change was announced (about adults staying overnight).

A registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over must be present for any activity involving female youth or female adult program participants.  

So, what is the change?  In the past, "female adult program participants" wasn't listed.  So, my understanding, is if you have a female 18-20 attending an event, you need a registered female adult leader 21 years or older.  

What it means @Eagle1993, is that if the proportion of females is nonzero, I could not meet collegiate adult Venturers for coffee without me finding 21+ registered female adult to join me.

It effectively makes it pointless to be a male crew advisor.

One small suggestion … if it’s at all that important, a scouter shouldn’t have to click through and advance the video to find out what s.a.f.e. stands for.

It’s also not clear how the checklist would have addressed the incident that inspired it. I would love its implementation to forestall death. But how does this do what the sweet 16 does not?

On 2/11/2023 at 9:43 AM, BlueandSilverBear said:

… The Eagle Scout uses some basic navigation skills (direction of the sunset) to go get help and eventually returns to save the day.  After the Eagle Scout explains how he did it, the first character exclaims, "Boy Scout!" 

…

Art imitating life. From marines at boot camp “remembering all those orienteering lessons that I had tried to forget” during their night in the crucible to veterans who told me about how calm and fearless Eagle Scouts were when their platoon had to bivouac … I’ve heard this story multiple times in multiple ways from multiple people.

A capacity of 15,000 is about 2.3% of 2021 Scouts BSA membership, so this is a lean year.

But … most Jambo-bound leaders had to choose between World and National Scout jamborees. A small minority have chosen to attend back-to-back events. That’s contributed to staffing shortages at Summit, and small numbers representing the USA in Korea.

For wannabe staffers, I have suggested and will repeat … if it really matters, take whatever you would spend to go , maybe divide that number by two, and offer it to another young adult who should go. For example your limit might be $500, but the scouter who knows you think that much of him/her might pull together balance of what is needed to attend.

The same *could* apply to youth. If your Eagle Scouts and others think that their troop should be represented at Jambo, pitch in to cut the fare for your best scout to go.

This decade is really forcing scouters to come to terms with what is really “worth it” for them. It may be that future Jamborees will forgo big name acts, and the arena will showcase more scout-grown talent. There might be fewer add-ons, like tours of the DC. We might pass on some of the circus that is WV’s playground.

Or, some really great council camporees might come to the fore.

Oh, for the days when completing an Eagle application was none of an adult’s business. … Just a scout, his typewriter, and correction tape!

Thank you for trying to help your scout, but it sounds like you should just save the .pdf for him to complete the rest.  Meanwhile, report your problem on the Scoutbook forums: https://discussions.scouting.org/

More details about his scouting career at 2:40 in the link below. I admire anyone who says “I am a Life Scout.”

Talk with the parents to see if they want their son cover the “why” of a restrictive sexual ethic.

More specifics on security risks here https://atlasvpn.com/blog/discord-privacy-and-security-problems-to-watch-out-for

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Advancement over adventure.  You and I both know they have it backwards.

A modest proposal for a new committee position:

1st Year (or as long as it takes) Parent Deprogrammer

Requirements

• YPT, Troop Committee Challenge, Register
• Master the following phrases in multiple languages including any local dialects:
  • Attend YPT. Talk about abuse, neglect, and bullying with your child. Know what to expect from us.
  • Yes, your scout is welcome time to do something fun and safe with us for zero credit. When he/she requests it, we will rearrange schedules accordingly.
  • The trail to first class is hard. The skills therein are difficult to master.
  • Use Scoutbook, but love that handbook. Trust, but verify.

10 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

For us fossils, Discord is a what?  What are the perceived strengths and dangers?  Thanks!

Think these forums, but invite-only with oversized emoji. What’s nice is it can handle voice messages and video calls.

The dangers are the same as most social media type things.

FWIW, I posed the issue of pen pointers to birders on a trail group and to our ASM who is all about bird conservation. They felt that there was no probability of a stargazing instructor inadvertently misdirecting migratory foul. These are mostly PA and WV birders, and they contend with a lot of light pollution. A laser pen pales in comparison to airplanes, fracking towers and windmills. So, as always, your mileage may vary. It’s a big country.

Have parents sign up. When their sons are 13 they may sign on.

I’m learning to use Discord because it was the medium of choice for my WSJ Troop. I have mixed feelings about it.

Do give them an ask.

They will have to take BSA’s YPT, regardless of similar other training.

@FirstClass, welcome to the forums!

As you can tell, scouters have no stomach for playing identity politics with religious awards. Having made the effort, a scout should proudly wear the awards for each faith he held at the time.

Setting aside that I thought turning Scout into a rank was pointless, now that it is a rank ...

We had several AoL crossovers who were still struggling with square knots. That's not to disrespect the program. We had a dozen crossovers, about half of them knew their knots well enough to quickly demonstrate them.

I think the pandemic was part of the problem. But, also, it's not in the nature of 10-year-olds to retain those kinds of motor skills. Scouts who are camping every month have greater odds of actually needing those skills.

No rubber stamps. It's a good life lesson to know that it's not about the patch. You have to be prepared to actually demonstrate the skills you claim to have.

13 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Citation required.

13 hours ago, yknot said:

Well, try Mr. Google. You can learn all about how lasers are used in bird dispersal. Or there are Audubon chapters in almost every state. …

First pass:

• A number of Audubon sites were recommending the use of higher powered lasers for dispersal. (Better than shotguns, I guess.) None were discouraging the use of pointers.
• I can’t find a Leave No Trace guideline regarding lasers of any kind, let alone pointers.
• Pilots don’t like them, but typically they are referring to higher powered lasers. Not pointers.
• I can’t find peer reviewed articles on the subject of lasers and migratory bird harm. I suspect that if a dead snot rocket by a stack of rocks could get accepted in the literature, a flock of laser pointer addled migratory birds would as well.

You know, it’s okay to make an argument by simply saying, “I don’t like them, nor does the ranger in my favorite park, nor the club I’m in. Maybe others feel the same way.” And in polite conversation, it’s okay to reply, “I’ll give my gal/guy a call and find out what he thinks.”

I didn’t like the drones at the 2019 jamboree, and scouts laughed at me as I cringed in terror. Along with the infantrymen on either side of the Dnipro, we are asking who’s laughing now? But, I’m not about to lecture the guy hovering his drone outside a wilderness recreation area who’s just trying to get a decent photo with one.

12 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

LOL, that's for those inconsiderate people who point them at animals.

Certainly check the rules for wherever you are going.  And I recommend adults only handle the pointer.

5 minutes ago, yknot said:

We have an observatory in our state park and the astronomers don't use laser pointers for scout talks during spring and fall migration. Songbirds migrate at night. The beam doesn't have to be pointed at them to be disorient them.

It's a big country. So check with your location about laser pointers. Myself, I'm not a fan. But ... sticking with reference as one of the fundamental steps in teaching any skill ... bring that star chart. In daylight, use it to show the scouts what they should be able to find once it gets dark.

Have a light with a red or green gel (or diffuser for that laser) so you can read the chart without disturbing your eyes once in a field. If it's planets you're looking for, have everyone sit on an east-west line in your observation field facing south. (Which they should be able to do once they've found Polaris!) Or, get them on a tarp with their sleeping bags.

Regarding light pollution, challenge them to find signs of human activity on the horizon (or in air/satellite traffic overhead). Being able to identify the nearest town or factory on the horizon could be a life-saver in the future.

3 hours ago, curious_scouter said:

Yeah loss/damage of a book happens.  Our SPL announces "Everyone, take pictures of your book tonight" at the first meeting of every month for this exact reason.  The adv chair also snaps photos at every BOR and attaches them to the note in SB for the BOR so they are preserved.  It's better than nothing and avoids a full rebuild.

The "holy grail" app would be one that converts pictures of a signed and dated requirements into scout book entries.