qwazse

The BSA pathfinder compass from the '50s has not evolved much from what we have today. This looks a lot humbler than the standard issue of the time. No BSA logo. Probably a leatherwork project. The button is probably more valuable than the compass itself. Check if a company and serial # is stamped on the back of the brass housing.

Fuzzy numbers. A majority in one year is a minority the next. In this case, the representative majority voted on a policy, which the executive/judiciary could not countenance.

Best I've ever seen: http://councils.scouting.org/Council533/Camping/Camp%20Karoondinhahas a massive cinder-block 20 room edifice with individual unisex plumbed toilets and showers, heating included.

@@acco40, "may be" is not a policy determination, your word choice implies that there are different ways of doing things. I have done just a few EBoR's and since then many more ESMC's (for younger candidates especially we have several ASMs sit in to get them comfortable addressing a table full of old farts). And from talking about this with lots of others, total career service hours is just not something that comes up. We like to understand the project break-down of the boy's hours vs. the time contributed by others. That helps us ask effective questions about what the boy learned about leadership. I suppose the number of hours of service outside of his own Eagle project might tell me something about one boy vs. another. So, sure, that would be a nifty figure to hear about. I guess I'm a multivariate kind of guy and would prefer to see the figures for the two kinds of service separated. But, that's just me. Until someone digs up an official quote on the matter, choose the method that works for your district advancement committee. If they don't care, choose the one that works for your troop committee. If they don't care, ask the PLC and maybe some troop alumni how they would like it recorded.

@@skeptic, sorry, I must have read it wrong ... The grand total (likely an undercount if the kid is a first class scout) is a neat stat, maybe for a COH, maybe for BSA to brag about the good it does in the world. But if it's split between Eagle and other, it's still a neat number.

Although those are both nice things to do, what relevance is it to the EBoR?

This often where adults go off the rails. (And one of the reasons why I think if they had opportunity to earn the same ranks the boys did, they'd wise up.) Leadership does not come from positions of responsibility. Leadership comes from the service project requirement. Does Tom ask his fellow scouts to help? Does he get them to sing his favorite song? Does he make them feel welcome? If so he's leading. And he should do so again through his service project.

I know y'all think that this permissive vs. restrictive sexual ethic thing is what's dooming the BSA, but that's not where the ship needs to be righted. In theory BSA could have gone more restrictive, and the membership drain would continue. There's one thing that would restore value to the BSA that would undermine every micromanaging adult: Move aggressively from a vision of "adventure boy" and toward A Vision of Hiking and Camping Independently with Your Mates. Think about it. If my Johnny or Jane is never going to Jambo, or an HA Base like all the glossy photos talk about all the time, but instead is finding a little nook just outside of town (or even in town) where he or she can grow and learn do some good in the world, I won't give a care about who some crack-pot troop on the other side of the nation is letting be their leader.

Officially: it's optional. Frankly, there is no need to count any service hours at all. Scout tells PL he served, when, and how. PL remembers seeing him doing at least as many as was required. Signs off. @@lepzid, you don't want opinions, but how 'bout a story? National Honor Society loves collecting all of the service hours every candidate put out while in high school. Yeah, whatever. Son #2 fills out the paperwork turns it in. Well our school's chapter holds a big old banquet (which, we learned from Son #1 after the fact, it is bad form for parents not to attend) and current members are assigned a candidate or two and asked to write an bio-sketch introducing them. So, we have 'bout 40 speeches with mind-numbing statistics (___ is a wonderful student in X clubs with Y awards and Z service hours) and the country club coffee really has something to be desired. The boy who introduced son #2, ignored all of that, and testified to how, no matter how miserable the day was, son #2 would show up at their after school club, committed to spending long hours, always with something cheerful to say ... and how he was a great person to have by your side. Not a mention of grades, varsity letters, class rank, or hours of this or that. Well, guess which boy, by virtue of having his priorities straight, was declared a member of our family? Go ye and do likewise.

@@Eamonn, it's just the stupidest, craziest thing I've heard in a while. And it might just work. You could tell kids it'd be like Minecraft or some other world-building online game, 'cept they'll be moving more than their thumbs.

They don't need charging if I turn them off!

As long as they shun athiests, they will likely have repeated visits from district executives.

@@MattR, although the tension may come when you have a homosexual who you would like to register with your unit, a more likely scenario would be that your unit might be assigned an openly homosexual ranger or site-guide or Seabase captain. Even now, you could have heterosexual leaders with pictures of their out-of-wedlock children stitched into their gear. @@Southpaw, what profiteth the BSA if it saves New York, but loses Utah? To those who wish to grouse about how their fellow forum members have posted (rather than address their content) there is another topic where you may argue over style.

@@SpEdScouter, the Brits have spoken for themselves in various threads on the matter. Hopefully they won't mind repeating themselves. But for pictures and really good videos, this is one of my favorite links: http://scouts.org.uk/home/

Registration fees are a drop in the bucket. And, they are nearly offset by reduced needs for services. FOS could be a big deal if those who need program are disproportionately represented by non-LDS. What's lost? Community. As a scout I had an MBC from the LDS, his troop and ours worked on several projects together. Some folks here report that LDS units are aloof. And that's somewhat true because they spend time preparing older boys for missions. But they've joined our district in helping our crew place memorial day flags. If they are off the district roster, will they get that memo? If there is an LDS rift, will there be as many units who support permissive sexual ethics to fill it? I heard from one Mormon who would like Trail Life to extend a hand to "social trinitarians" of their sort. I don't see it happening.

Trappers and Pirates! Just need a little National Archery Association endorsement.

Those rumors are exaggerated. Based on stats never measured.

i'd say, in general no, but .... The camp director is a friend, so I wouldn't imagine not telling him. But, even with directors who I've met that week, I've found it helpful to go over any problem I've had with them. He might even put you in contact with another SM in camp who has a similar kind of scout. At the least, a camp would like to know it not was something about the program. Now, if it involved sexual assault, that's a whole different animal. Lots of folks should be informed.

So, is it every year? Or just on World Jambo years?

There is an off-season staff pool for weekends. Best deal is of you can provide volunteers who are qualified to staff. Not so sure about mid-week.

If it were whiskey SCOTUS might hear the case.

Yep, fun. What a concept. @, what paperwork did you all finally push?

Yah, and I have an Anglican friend who was the theologian in residence (or some such title) at a local synagogue. We're Americans, we like to mix things up ... a lot. I think outside forces would not touch your situation. They may asail the BSA for granting a charter to any organization who excludes adults of a particular class from leading their "ministry, but not who includes adults of a particular class. Also, I don't expect an effective assault to come through the courts, but rather through economic pressures of a plutocracy who favors a permissive sexual ethic.

http://caltopo.comis the best tool I've found for out-of-the-box (er.. printer) customization. BTW, the cost in ink is pretty steep, so make sure you fairly compesate for in-house production. If you want to learn how to do produce a map in large quantity to a high degree of accuracy, join your local orienteering club and ask them to show you the ropes.

Well, this topic is about musings ... We were musing about BSAs next move. Just 5. Years ago, it was toward a loose federation of organizations like AHG, whose administrative structure meshed with COs wanting programs that include all of their youth constituents. As other scouters including yourself at the time discussed, treating AHG was a sister org would be like pulling teeth. Well, it looks like TL has what it takes to bag that lion. I see this operating in a way we have never seen with GSUSA and BSA. Scouts would meet under the same roof on the same night. Open and close together, and in some COs have break-out sessions for the respective sexes, in others participate together for the duration. It has the potential to be extremely flexible.The CO calls the shots as to how closely the committees works together. That's how things can operate based on they way the groups are currently organized. If they pull resources and share membership registration, awards programs, etc ... they will accomplish exactly what scouters on this thread said they would never see or want to happen. Niche market? Definitely. But a big niche who has been looking for something like this for some time. The only question that will will remain is: will BSA and GSUSA follow their lead?