NJCubScouter

I don't know what benefit you think there would have been in having a "Faith and Chaplaincy Forum" in this instance - or any other instance for that matter. The thread probably would have STARTED in "Faith and Chaplaincy" and would have been moved TO Issues and Politics. But you are free to ask SCOUTER-Terry to start such a forum. Moderators cannot start forums. If you do make that request, and Terry asks the moderators (and/or other forum members) for our opinions about it, then I would have to decide what my opinion is. But I have never seen you really make a "case" for why topics regarding faith and chaplaincy, as they relate to Scouting, can't go in Open Discussion.

In theory I agree with you. But I think this thread has gone past the point where that is a real likelihood - at least as far as this particular moderator doing the work necessary to make it happen. The thread really can't go back into Open Discussion with all of the religious debate and bickering that is now interspersed through the pages of the thread. So a moderator would have to go through every post in the five pages of the thread and move the ones that are not about chaplain aides, to a new thread in a different sub-forum. It can be done, but it would be cumbersome and time-consuming. In a few cases a post might not fit neatly into one or the other. This is what can happen when threads go off-topic. In the future maybe people should be more careful about keeping their posts on-topic, and avoid adding controversial issues into a Scouting-related thread.

Stosh, if you think I&P is a "toilet", why do you participate in it? I also think it's a pretty discourteous term to use for a part of this free (to members) service that Terry so graciously provides. And besides, the "Views" statistic next to each post shows that more people will see this post in I&P than saw it under Open Discussion. So this idea that sending something to I&P is sending it into oblivion is a myth. And no, your post made it mandatory that this thread be put in I&P. The alternative was to delete your post that accused someone else of bigotry. When the debate gets to that level, there is only one place for the thread. Where, like I said before, more people will see it. Plus, if you thought the thread should have been moved to I&P at an earlier point, you should have sent a flag report. I know you know how to do that.

Ironically, Stosh, it is you who just pushed this thread far enough over the line where I have to move it to Issues and Politics.

I have never heard of a Scout getting Indian Lore MB outside of summer camp. Same for Basketry and Leatherwork. And Fingerprinting, which may be an oddity of our particular camp. I don't think I have ever encountered a non-camp counselor for any of them.

It doesn't. But if you read through this entire thread you will see a number of posts that have nothing to do with the Chaplain's Aide position. There are some posts that discuss what I would call "religious politics." Some might call that a "theological discussion" instead. Whether the thread needed to be moved to I and P fell into sort of a gray area, and none of the moderators decided to move it. In the end, it was I who accidentally said something that probably pushed it clearly into "politics" territory, but I have edited it out and nobody specifically responded to it while it was still here. So here the thread remains.

Without going point-by-point, some of what you describe is not typical. Certainly not typical of a well-run troop. The one thing that I have no problem with is having the Scouts who learn things in the "new Scout" ("mountain man") program be tested within the troop before having those requirements signed off in the handbook, regardless of what the camp says. I am talking about Scout through First Class requirements here. Merit badges are different. A fully signed blue card is the final word on a merit badge. Although it isn't really important in the greater scheme of things, your description of the troop's Court of Honor schedule boggles my mind. Are you sure they have regular Courts of Honor in May and June? I don't get the point of that at all. Are you sure one of them wasn't an Eagle Court of Honor, just for a particular Scout?

Maybe not. I have removed the jokey comment in my own post that apparently prompted this comment. This thread has been skating on the edge of going into Issues and Politics almost from the beginning anyway. But since it started out being about Scouting, I did not want to push it over the edge. I would say that some of the comments in the past couple days probably should have sent it there, but whichever side of the "line" this thread has been on, it was still close.

That's a big over-generalization. It is wrong paint an entire generation with the same brush. I would grant that a higher percentage of college students today need to take "catch-up" classes, partly because a larger percentage of students go to college than in "my day." Though I can't say that my son spent much time in college reading the classics, he was too busy taking advanced calculus and physics and engineering courses that I didn't even understand the names of.

Your son has been in the troop for 9 months and 4 Courts of Honor have already passed in which he was supposed to get a badge but did not get it? How often does your troop have Courts of Honor? The BSA recommends quarterly. What is the practice in your son's troop? I think F-P raises a good question. Have you asked the Scoutmaster these questions?

Welcome to the forum, TryingtoMom! Before I suggest any answers to your questions, I am wondering how long your son has been in the troop and what rank he is now. Also, is "mountain man" a program for first-year campers (new Scouts) at summer camp? If that is the case, the situation in your point # 3 may not be a problem. Many troops (including mine, at times) regard the "signoffs" in first-year summer camp programs as meaning that the Scout has been taught the subject matter of the requirement, not that the Scout has necessarily passed the requirement. The Scout can then be tested and signed off within the troop. This is especially true if what the camp provides is a "report card" rather than a signoff in the handbook. In fact, I believe the "report card" provided by the summer camp that my troop usually attends specifically states that the Scout's knowledge of the subject matter should be reviewed by the troop before it is signed off in the handbook. Or words to that effect. The other situations you report do seem like cause for concern, but again I am wondering how long your son has been in the troop.

Yes, and there are subdivisions within the subdivisions of Islam as well. Shia Islam has at least two subdivisions, the Twelvers and the Ismaili. Like some of the other subdivisions, they descend from the followers of different claimants to the heirship of Mohammed. Since learning about the Ismailis a few years ago, I have found them particularly interesting because their current Imam, the Aga Khan IV, is a near-billionaire businessman who owns hundreds of racehorses and has been divorced twice. Somewhat atypical for the leader of an entire branch of a religion.

Of course, I don't know the man in question and was not there to hear his "tone." I have, however, found myself in the position of being the only Jewish person (or one of very few) in a particular setting, so I can speak from my own experience. I may be completely wrong about this individual, but here goes: The "tone" may have been due to the man feeling that he was being put "on the spot" by your well-meaning question. He may have had in mind that requesting that others change what they are doing for the sake of one person can have consequences. He may have wanted to avoid "rocking the boat." As for "special treatment", I am sure you know that that phrase has two equal and opposite meanings. Whether you mean good-special or bad-special would depend on YOUR tone, which I can't hear because this is the Internet. It does sort of remind me of the scene in "Fiddler on the Roof" when Tevye is informed that his Jewish community is about to be targeted by a government-sponsored campaign of violence. He looks skyward, asks God "Why", and says (with his typical dark humor) "I know we are your chosen people, but once in awhile, can't you choose somebody else?"

I agree with Beavah. (Just checking to confirm that the Earth has not spun off its axis.)

Is the thread title supposed to be sarcastic? Some boys like to read, some don't. I think boys of today would find the kind of stories written by this author (starting 100 years ago) to be boring. They are more likely to want stories that are a little different, like Harry Potter. (Of course, Harry Potter books are so 10 years ago now. I don't know what teen and pre-teen boys are reading now. Assuming they are reading and not playing video games. Maybe someone could create some Scouting-related video games.)

I just merged the two identical threads that zuzy started. I hope I didn't step on something that you were doing.

That sounds nice. But do you mean, from Day One? So as soon as the boy walks in the door you are simultaneously encouraging him to work on Scout-to-First Class, merit badges, Mile Swim, STEM award, 50 Miler, Hornaday Medal, and all the rest of the things in the back of the handbook? I doubt it. Why would you? Some things are designed to be done very early in the Scout's career. I would encourage doing those first. I'm not suggesting that anything the boy is eligible for should be placed off limits. What I am talking about is guiding a young man to follow a logical path, especially if the young man is prone to distractions, as so many are at the age of 10. Maybe there are some Scouts who can "do it all" right out of the gate. But for most of them, I am concerned that trying to do too much at first will result in completing nothing at all, leading to frustration. Let them get a little older and more sure of themself first.

What you are inclined to believe is not necessarily what is going on in another troop, or with another SM or Scout. That is one of the problems in this forum. People give advice based on what they think the facts REALLY are, regardless of what is said by the one person who actually knows the facts. Now, that person is of course subject to all of the normal human failings in perceiving and reporting facts and in overcoming biases that one (including me) is always subject to when reporting information about one's own child. But it doesn't change the fact that we don't really help a member of the forum when we advise them based on facts we make up. Going to a new troop is fine. Trying to make Eagle in the new troop may be a different story. Others (primarily CalicoPenn) have pointed out some of the pitfalls. When I put myself in the place of a SM greeting a new Scout in the troop who immediately (or soon after) wants signoffs for Eagle, it gives me great pause. If I were that SM I would advise the Scout to talk to the District Advancement Chair. This is the exact situation that the "disputed circumstances" procedure was made for. I think it should at least be explored.

I have merged the 2 threads that were on the same topic. It will still be a little confusing because one post above refers to the other thread (namely Beavah's shorter post refers to his longer post which was in the other thread), but I did not want to delete any posts other than the one by zuzy that was a complete duplicate.

My first MB was Coin Collecting. I was Second Class. The rule was that you had to be Second Class. Whether that was a national rule at the time (this would have been 1970-71) or just a "local rule", I don't know. But that is the way it was in our troop. The one thing I remember about Coin Collecting was that I walked to the home of the counselor, who was not involved with our troop and was a complete stranger, and met with him, alone, in his house. My parents didn't know him either. Except that he was just another guy, who like my father, was giving his time to the youth of the community, so what could go wrong, right? And nobody thought a thing about it. Amazing, compared to today.

I agree with qwasze's suggestion. But before your son actually goes filing paperwork, I think he should have a conversation with the District Advancement Chair who might have some specific suggestions and perhaps other options. I suspect that every council/district does this "under disputed circumstances" thing a little differently. It is also possible that, depending on the person, someone might place a call to the SM that clears away the obstacles. That seems unlikely in this case, I am just saying that a little conversation might not hurt at this point before formal proceedings are launched. I might advise differently if your son was staring down the barrel of his 18th birthday, but that is not the case.

It's one thing to permit a Scout to work on something, which as Hedgehog says, the leaders don't have a choice about. It is another thing to encourage. I personally don't think it's a good idea to encourage an easily distracted 10-year-old who hasn't reached the first rung on the ladder to be working on something that is a requirement for the FIFTH rank he is going to earn. It is not a matter of prohibiting something.

RogueRiverRun, welcome to the forums! Interesting question that may get a variety of answers. The correct answer may be different for a boy who has joined since January 2016 and is using the new handbook, in which Scout has been transformed from the "joining badge", with requirements that could be done in the young man's first meeting, to a rank, with requirements that are a little more substantial. My personal preference would be for boys to hold off earning merit badges until they are Second Class with just a few boxes to check for First Class, but that is not the "way of things" in the BSA currently. Our troop attends a camp with a "first year Scout" program in which the boys earn three merit badges, or two if they are not ready for Swimming MB. These are boys who have probably crossed over from a pack in March or April and now it's July, and they probably aren't even Tenderfoot yet. But they have three MB's. I would prefer they spend that time learning their basic Scouting skills through First Class, and they do spend about half the day on those, and the rest on MB's. I would prefer they spend the whole day on Scouting skills with maybe an open swim or open archery or rifle or whatever in the middle of the day to blow off some steam. But what do I know? What was the question again?

Members of Parliament in the UK do have specific terms but there are situations in which an election can be called sooner. In other words there is an outside limit but no inside limit. My understanding of Stosh's posts have been that in his troops, there is neither an outside nor inside limit. There is only a new election when the boys "decide", however it is they might do that. In my son's troop (I'm going to start calling it that again on here, rather than "my" troop, even though my son hasn't been a member of it for 6 years) all terms, elected and appointed, are for one year. I think our way is better.

Smile when you say that. I certainly do. (Says the mostly-by-the-book guy.)