Mike Long

Backpacking is carring all your gear, anything less is hiking. Size of the scout is irrelevant, it's the size of the pack ON the Scout that matters. Every single Scout is able to backpack if he can pack a pack and walk regardless of what the parents think the Scout can do. This has been proven to me time and time again.

Very cool Long Haul, thanks for the link. That is something to consider doing soon. Two years is about right, but what a knowledgebase to have available to Scouters. I think I've got a good portion covered but I'd sign up. You can't ever learn too much. Our council only seems to give lip service to the concept of high adventure. When asked they always reply with "Go to Philmont or Seabase or Northern Tier" Great programs every one but my guys can't afford it. That's pretty hefty list and the trips sound like a blast.

Actually that is an extremely extensive list that would be IMHO pretty close to entry level professional skills. Actually I know some professional guides that don't have all of that. (Scary huh?)That isn't an argument against it though. I'm all for it. I think it would be great to have classes that offer all of that readily available to Scouters. I think the WFR would probably knock out most Scouters though. Right now that (WFR) is my long term goal. So le Voyageur, what credentials do you hold and where did you aquire them? Timeframe? You mentioned that your council offers HA train

Yep, got me in trouble more than once.

I agree with le Voyageur completely. Only recently have I received any real interest in our adults even attending the high adventure trips other than the ones who already enjoy those activities outside of scouting. But yes I would be interested in such a class. Heck I'd be willing to teach it. Don't know if I'm a expert but I've done a lot of backpacking, that's got to count for something. I've been trying to take some NOLS (national outdoor leadership school) classes for some time now. The big problem for me is cost not time. Right now I'm trying to get my adults to take

Scouting is relevant to every American. I would think that the outdoor program would be especially exiting to Latino boys as their forefathers explored this entire hemisphere.

Character and morality are not creatures of conveniece.(sp?) Aim high. That way you won't shoot yourself in the foot. If it's easy it's probably not worth doing. There is no such thing as bad weather, only bad equipment choices. Any fool can destroy something. It requires greatness to build and even greater is he who re-builds.

Korea hit the nail on the head. Perhaps we should portray this not as a destination (Eagle COH), but a journey with Eagle just one of the waypoints... That is exactly what everyone should be doing.

Hi Tom and Dave, Welcome to the boards. The edit function must still have some bugs. Email the admin and let them know. I personally don't use the insulation but I know many who do. They tell me the stove heats quicker and gets to full heat sooner. I'm happy with performance as is. In answer to your question, yes. You are exactly right.

No thanks.

Camp Rainy Mountain in North Georgia.

Once again I guess it was just the way it was worded or how I read it that struck a chord with me. Were are all family, it's all good. Specifically the view that the bottom line of National is money. I too have never heard of the scenario you describe but the BSA does have a channel set up to help/encourage units to present the Scout program as intended. Unit Commissioners, Roundtable, District Executives and regular training classes to name a few. No the BSA doesn't regulate units. It instead relys on the above support structure to "enforce" the program. No it obviously doesn't alwa

I have to admit we do go north for summer camp in part because of climate but mostly we think the program is better. Scouts don't pack up and go home because it's cold, hot, wet ect. That shows that you don't have very good Scout skills and were not prepared. There is no such thing as bad weather. There is only poorly chosen gear and being unprepared. As an after thought I doubt that that would convince new parents of anything. The biggest reason to go to camp is learning. Nowhere else will these boys learn as much as quickly as they will at Summer Camp. A good summer camp

Hold on Ed, these kids have been following for a year by then.

No we aren't kids anymore. We also don't appreciate the suggestion that we are simply because we reject your view. I used to share that view, I don't anymore. (This message has been edited by Mike Long)

I agree. One of the major reasons I and my wife are active in Scouting even though my wife and I do not have any children as of yet. (NOTE: Our first is due in September and it's a girl. I'd better read up on Girl Scouts.) Is that I had a great Scout experience as a boy and in my opinion I had the best Scoutmaster/mentor/hero a kid could ask for. I'm biased, he was my Dad. It pains me when I get in a discussion with other men and when we discuss Scouting they all tell me they quit for one negative of another. Bad program, bad leadership ect. I despise the phrase "We didn't do anything."

It would take an extreme situation for me to consider removing a boy from our Troop and even then it's a matter for Committee discussion. The Scoutmaster is not the boss of the Scouts, he is the servant of the Scouts. Sounds like he forgot that the kids are then reason we are all here. I normaly push sticking it out and working to improve the troop but this sounds like a losing battle. I'd look for a better Troop. Nice to have you back le Voyageur.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

Ok Bob, my overactive little mind read too much into it. We are on the same page. Whew! I was starting to worry!

I don't have a problem with kids being in multiple activities or that sometimes they choose something else over us. We can't provide everything, and some activities provide some things better than we do. I just need to do better at providing a program they don't want to miss. As for your LLT course, I'm all ears!

To me a program that works is one that is fun and keeps the Scouts interested, engaged, and provides the three goals of character, citizenship and fitness. Chances are if you have the first three you have the second three. I agree wholeheartedly that "You really don't have to rush them to first class, you just need to plan a program that gives them the opportunity to get there." I'm stumped on the skill mastery comments. Say what? They don't have to know the skill? I agree that master is a very strong word but a best effort that misses the mark isn't doing anyone any good. The Scou

Maybe I'm being hopelessly optimistic but I thought in the BSA the boys were the bottom line, not money. To change a moral view or policy based on money and not on a moral epiphiany displays a definate lack of morals or at the very least cowardace. An organization that purports to be a moral one and does this is not an organization I would want to be a part of.

Thanks for the tag fix.

The Council typically (at least in what I see) has no clue what happens at the troop level. However at the district level the Troop should have been assigned a Unit Commisioner to help with problems like you describe. There is a structure in place to deal with these issues. Wether or not the structure is used or used effectively is another matter. My Unit Commissioners for seven years were useless to me. One I even wouldn't even allow to be near our Scouts. I got a call last week from my new one and THANK GOD he seems like he wants to get out and do. I'm looking forward to working with hi

Bravo Bruce!

Boring anything is a program problem. A good Scout program is not boring unless it's just not your bag. Not everyone likes what most Scouts do. Interesting view OGE. My older Scouts all want to do the High Adventure but some are not interested in leadership unless they get a HA trip out of it.