Mike Long

Um folks, those of you who suggest that this be worked out within the unit may I point out that Scoutmom stated that the leader in question WAS trained? I don't know about you but in every training I have been in it was clearly stated the BSA rules regarding alcohol. This isn't a matter of innocent ignorance, this is a matter of willfull violation. Not only that the unit leader and those involved were not only unresponsive but hostile. My opinion would be different if the CM's response had been to at least listen. The response indicates an unwillingness to discuss the issue. Get them

I'm reading this and my response is, Ummmm....wow? I'm with Bob, get them out of there.

I just can't see getting that worked up over one trip that went wrong. Ah well, some folks look for excuses to complain or are easy to set off. I would think that several successes woulf offset the occasional foul-up and your good record would be enough to satisfy the troop. I think the big thing to do is sit down with the PLC and Troop Committee and do a post-mortem of the trip and create some action items of good and bad things that happened and re-visit who does what. Be sure your youth leaders understand your thought process anf why's of you decisions. Someday they will be making thes

I'd like to clarify. I only have a problem with the suggestion to picket, write letters to the editor, invole people that have no reason to be involed (mayor, governor ect.), and generally work to remove support from the troop as was suggested earlier in this thread. That in my book is harassment and is unnecessary. The problem is they didn't tell ScoutParent up front about a policy that they can't even produce any evidence that existed prior to this situation. I don't have a problem with persueing a legal course of action as a last resort.

Part of the responsabilities of the Scoutmaster to to ensure the delivery of a safe and effective program. You are well within your rights to call extra meetings to prepare for trips that you don't feel the troop is prepared for. You are also well within your rights to cancel trips you don't think the troop is prepared for, especially if there are potentially life threatening situations involved. Safety first. The more thing change the closer you get to d-day the far greater the chances something will go wrong. If there is a massive flurry of last minute changes consider cancelling becaus

Definately talk to your council lawyers. Correct me if I'm wrong gang but aren't our units non-profit organizations? Why create a new organization if you already have one. Personally, that seems like a huge liability. It would be very cool to have your own camp but I'm not sure I would want the extra work.

I don't know if revocation is possible. I've heard that it was but in any event definately let the Scoutmaster and know about it and let him deal with it. If it's not to your liking well I guess the next step is the Troop Committee.

Oz, ALWAYS fight for the win-win. It's the hardest and most complicated road but the most rewarding. I meant not go on the trip not get out of the troop. I would definately keep working with him in the course of the regular troop activities but I would not put a capital trip at risk. I'm not so sure about this being something the boys can handle without major adult help. Most kids don't have the wisdom to rise above and try to see long term situation and repercussions.

I hate contracts. This is scouting not a contractual arrangement. Honor needs to count somewhere. If no one else has behaviour issue then I see no need to make them sign anything. I'd simply tell the Scout and his family that his behaviour is unacceptable, has been unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated. Either his behaviour improves or he will not be allowed to attend your trip even if his parents accompany him. You must consider the rest of the troop first. This is a capitol trip and the last thing you want to do is give someone a chance to make the trip miserable for yourse

I agree completely. So far I'm with you 100%. If you need to persue legal action fine but the suggestion of protests and such sickens me.

Well, after a one week abscence my Scout showed up in uniform last night. We got along famously, like nothing ever happened. I'm very grateful to not lose him.

Ok fine, if y'all won't say it I will. Harrassment and intimidation are not acceptable. Removing the scouting program from boys by making it impossible for their troop to operate is unacceptable. Slander and libel is unacceptable. And a scouter advocating the above is also unacceptable. If you really feel the need to go the legal route then consider the damage that will be inflicted on EVERYONE involved and the lessons this teaches everyone. Most importantly the boys who are quite happy with their troop as it is. Is any amount of money worth destroying a troop over? There is suc

Ok Dan I checked it out. (page 152 Scoutmasters handbook) Yes it does say that a uniform is not required to be a scout but then it goes on to tell of several ways to get uniforms and encourage boys to wear them. The general message I get from this is that if a scout can't afford a uniform he can't be kicked out because of it but if he has a uniform he is expected to wear it properly and proudly. It looks to be a reminder to Scout leaders to be sensitive to the economic means of some of our scout families. If uniforms were optional the Boy Scout handbook would say so as that is

"it was like your own Dad was there!" What an honor to be thought of that way. Keep on keeping on.

Wow, the millpond looks like the Okeefenokee swamp. Unfortunately most of the Okee is in flames right now. Ah well, circle of life.

Thanks Rooster. Well let me just say that if you have an adult interacting with the boys one on one outside of scouting you need to look very closely at what is happening. If it makes you edgy then trust your instincts and act.

Rooster you are probably right about the legal angle, actually I know you are right. Much the same I saw this happen as a scout amd it almost happened to me as a scout and I'm extremely sensitive to it and sometimes I react excessively. But yes I think you are right about that going too far.

I agree with Quixote about the cost issue and his secario but cost is not an issue here and even if it was the troop repeatedly states that if a Scout can't afford a uniform then one will be provided and we also have an experienced unform bin that anyone is welcome to dip into at anytime. The Scout was a PL (if I remember correctly) and Life when I assumed leadership. He's been stagnant for my entire tenure. He also happens to be my past SPL. He wore the uniform off and on while SPL (although not always completely) and was asked each time to wear it completely. As soon as his term was ove

If a Scout leader preys on a child it is almost always outside of a scouting event. Youth protection when used properly makes abuse next to impossible unless there is collusion between adult leaders. (an extremely frightening thought.) What predators do is build up a comfort level with the parents through the scouting program and then invite the victim out to do something (movie, campout, look at my old patches, ect.) outside of scouting. Everyone asks "why did the parents allow this." The parents allowed it because they had developed a comfort level with the adult. They couldn't imagine

Well I'll have to look that up but here is my reasoning regarding what is stated in the Boy Scout handbook. Page 12- "...Old or new, wear your uniform proudly whenever you are taking part in Scout activities. ..." I see nothing about should, ought or you might want to in that statement. It tells the Scout to wear the uniform in definate language with no amiguity. That quote is not taken out of context, there is nothing on that page that gives the scout the option of not wearing a uniform. Page 13 describes the official scout uniform (tan shirt and all) nothing else is granted the tit

Thanks for the input and support. My dad was my Scoutmaster, I knew exactly what I was getting into. Matter of fact he and I had a little "Scoutmaster conference" before I took the job. Made me feel like I was 15 again. It was a good feeling too, made me miss being a Boy Scout. My demands? Well, all I am asking is that the Troop obey the uniform rules as printed on pages 12 and 13 of the hanbook, nothing more and absolutely nothing less. I see nothing that indicates that Troops even have an option to do anything other than what the book states in regard to uniforming. Just because othe

Oh yeah, as far as bear bagging on a float trip see LVs thread titled "Bear bagging smarter" in the camping & high adventure section. Brilliant technique.

I was going to respond earlier but Eisely is on a roll and frankly he's stating just what I was plus more. I'll defer to his postings. Good stuff Eisely, I'm getting some great info here too.

Before I start let me state that I agree completely that we need to utilize positive reinforcment as opposed to punishments in Scouting and we should not "kick out" boys. Here is the situation. A couple of years ago I took over the position of Scoutmaster of our troop. The troop was in sad shape. Uniforms were not being worn, the Scoutmaster was planning the program completety, the committee didn't exist, the junior leaders were in name only. In my opinion this was not a scout troop this was a camping club that aped the BSA. Eventually I took over as Scoutmaster. The first point of

Congratulations, your Scouts truly understand what it is to be a Scout. I think you've accomplished the ultimate goal of Scouting.