Mike Long

That is something only MacScouter can tell you. (or anyone whos site they host) I am an internet developer so I work with this kind of stuff 24/7. Really it is instantaneous once the files are placed in the appropriate directory but it depends on their business methods. They might have some sort of scheduled release plan or other policy regarding releases. Oh welcome to the forum and to being a Scoutmaster, it's ALWAYS an adventure.

We camp as patrols in separate campsites with the adults in a separate site. (but close enought to see everything and have a quick reaction time) If it's a big group site they pick their own areas. We camp every month but we only backpack for 3 or 4 trips and a week long high adventure backpacking trip during spring break. I'm very lucky I guess. I have one dad who thru-hiked the AT years ago (70's) and still backpacks for his family vacations. We also have some other dads who were willing to try and are now hooked. My older scouts are all hard-core backpackers now. About 4 are planning to do thru-hikes when they graduate next year. I'm in Florida, EVERYTHING is uphill from me!

Oh you are not alone Weekender. I'm in the same camp as you. Luckily my guys like backpacking as much as I do. Our quartermaster checks out gear more or less as you describe. I think thats the best way to handle troop gear. I have "I need to be out of sight of everthing" syndrome. Wanna go Backpacking?

Welcome to the board. If I might offer a bit of advice here. You posted some viewpoints with very little supporting logic. One of them being highly inflammatory. Many would easily mistake it for trolling as we frequently attract trolls here. You might want to carefully explain your position up front next time. Everyone here is passionate about scouting, expect a strong response to a strong statement. Once again, welcome. On to the discussion 1. I agree with your assesment in your second post completely but it doesn't provide a good reason to remove the flag from an organization that one of it's three charter priciples is patriotism. If I see a Scout or Scouter disrespecting the uniform I correct them without fail. It is part of our responsability to instill a healthy respect of our nation, its beliefs and its symbols in our membership. I don't that mission is well served by removing the only symbol of our nation from our uniforms. The word America is not enough. Members don't choose what goes on a uniform and should not presume to alter it. I'm sure your superiors would have had a problem if you altered your uniform while you were in service. The flag is part of the uniform, it should stay until national deems otherwise. When that happens my flag and I will have to go elsewhere. 2. The trained patch and the Scout badge represent different things entirely and serve different purposes. One recognises leadership training and one indicates a start on the trail to Eagle. Is the Brown Scout Badge ugly? Well I did think that it was until I became a Scoutmaster, but to my brand new scouts it looks like adventure and the promise of great things to come. I have never presented a Scout badge to a Scout who didn't have a HUGE smile plastered all over his face. I didn't think the badge was ugly after I realized the joy it brings to these guys. Made me remember when I got mine. I'm thinking I had a huge grin too. World brotherhood? Yes I teach it as much as I can. After all a Scout IS a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout, not just American Scouts. I am lucky, we are just outside of a Navy base and occasionally allied vessels call at port. When they do I contact the Quarterdeck at the base and ask if any current of former members of the Scouting movement would like to come to a meeting and talk to the boys. A few times we get visitors. It's a great experience. The Scout badge gets removed from the uniform when the boy advances. The World Brotherhood badge does not. 3. A collecting merit badge? I can see that but it would have to be awefully general. People do collect many things besides coins and stamps.

I didn't look too closely at the plans. But yeah, they shouldn't be so big and heavy as require a bunch of boys to move them.

So the world brotherhood patch means you are trained AND a Boy Scout? What about Boy Scouts that aren't trained? As to suggestion #1, it's not going to happen........ever.

Here is an old thread with some links to plans http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=224

The whole point of having big chuck boxes is that a single scout can't pick it up. He needs a buddy to help him, hence teamwork.

People, people give me some time! I will address EVERY question that I think I am qualified to answer. If I don't think am have enough experience I will direct you to a better source. My intention is to answer all these questions in SPECIFICLY TARGETED threads. By doing so it will make it easier for us to browse and find answers to our questions rather than digging through massive threads. Next installment by popular request Boots and Foot care. HI Marcy! Welcome to the forums, glad to have you. First off I have no children of my own yet so my suggestions would all come from observing friends and fellow scout parents. Luckily my wife and I found out last week that the childless situation will be over soon. YEA! I have an ASM in my troop that started backpacking with his son at 3 years old. Here are a few tips. 1. LOW mileage for the little ones. Your one mile trip sounds perfect but it most likely won't be a challenge for your older kids. The older ones could easily handle 5 miles in easy to moderate terrain. 2. Be prepared to carry more weight than you thought you would have to carry. The smallest kids should only carry their lunch, water, poncho, maybe a light jacket and a whistle (preferably a VERY loud one like a storm whistle) You should be ready to carry anything that they get too tired to carry. 3. Stop frequently. If they find something that catches their attention let them stop and explore it. If they look tired or bored stop. Teach then that every time you stop you must drink some water. 4. Snack frequently. 5. Bring extra clothes and wipes in case of accidents. 6. Games. Make everything a game. Bring cards or maybe some checkers and draw a checkerboard on your sleeping pad or a piece of cloth. Better yet make up your own games. My Scouts have "stick races" when we camp near streams or rivers. 7. Chores. Go easy on camp chores for the little ones. My best suggestion would be to make them helpers and nothing more. There are several good books on backpacking and most have sections on backpacking with small children. Here is another online resource that will be of interest to you. http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/menasha/fam_back.htm Gorp.com has a good article addressing the subject.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

Scoutmom I'm with you. If you are registered with the BSA then you are a member and the members of the BSA should wear the uniform.

I have had that same exact situation in my troop for 3 years now and it was not a problem. It just hinges on if the boy can handle both responsabilities and carry both out without doing a disservice to the other. I have had three different boys do this and all performed admirably. Could be I got lucky though. Just be sure to keep close tabs on him and ask frequently if he needs help.

We also limit our range to a comfortable one day drive. With us being in Jacksonville, Florida that opens up everything from the keys to the Smokies. Our guys like the mountains though. This year we are attending Camp Rainy Mountian in north Georgia. This March we will do a high adventure backpacking trip in the Smokies again. What is your range or is it open ended? If you can get more specific maybe we can too.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

The only difference between and active Scout parent and an Assistant Scoutmaster is the uniform and being registered (hopefully BSA training too.) The big kick is making them realize that. Most parents think that there is some mysterious hidden responsability lurking around the corner that will jump them if they commit. But really folks, can you honestly think of anything that a parent who shows up at meetings and goes on the occasional activity isn't already doing? I have found the best way to get these folks active is to ask them to do specific tasks after a while ask them to be ASMs. I have a dad who is an electrician. I asked him to teach electricity merit badge. He did it and the boys (and He) loved it. Then I asked him to teach fishing MB with the same great results. Then I asked him to be an ASM. He looked at me and said why. I told him "Well, you are doing the job already. You are mentoring boys, teaching skills and attending campouts. We might as well recognise you for all your hard work."

That's the best way to get scouts to do anything. Increase the "cool factor."

Yep, absolutely. That's what I meant by doing hikes at meetings. I guess I sould have expounded on that point more. Thanks Eisely.

Backpacking is an endurance activity. The number one area that you need to stregthen is your cardiovascular system. Anything that helps to strengthen your heart and lungs will work. Swimming and running are big winners here. The number two area you need to strengthen is your lower body. Hips, knees, ankles and feet take the brunt of the pressure of backpacking. So you need to work your quads, hamstrings, and calves. Once again running will most likely be the most effective exercise in that area. You also need to build the weight bearing ability of those muscle groups. A little weight training wouldn't hurt. Stair climbers are great too. If you feel the need to lay oput some cash or have access to a gym spend some time on a nordic track Teton. Remeber, a properly adjusted pack will transfer the weight of the pack to your hips and down your legs not your neck and shoulders. Now you may ask "What about getting used to that big 'ole pack?" I have bad news for you. The only way to get used to the backpack is to wear it with weight or exercise in it. My best real world suggestion that will work for everyone is to start small. Take a walk everyday and begin to take longer walks. If you are gung-ho start running. At some point take a long walk with your empty backpack. Over a series of packwalks add weight to the pack. Some folks just toss it books for weight but I think is a better idea to add pieces of gear you intend to use. This give you a feel for how the pack will ride. Gradually you will build up endurance to the point that you are walking with a fully loaded pack. Oh yes, don't skip that walk if it is raining, take it anyway. You won't likely have the option to not hike when on the trail so you might as well figure out how to deal with the elements and get comfortable with your gear in your own neighborhood. You might just find out that you hate that poncho and want a rainsuit, maybe the garbage bag was a better pack cover than the store bought one. How long will this take? Only you can answer that. My best answer is until you feel confident. The big problem that I have seen is that most first time hikers try to outpace their heart and lungs. This is especilly true when they hike their fist big incline. Only go as fast as your body tells you. On particularly rough grades I will literally take a step, breath, take a step, breath ect. Learn how to Rest Step. As you put one foot forward and down, you pause for a second or two while the weight is still on the backward leg. (it is ok to let the knkee lock.) Then transfer the weight to the forward leg, take a step forward, and pause again. This gives you a little break with each step. Once you get used to the rest step, you'll be able to set a comfortable pace and move uphill without having to climb 10 steps and stop to gasp for air, then climb another 10 steps and stop and gasp again. This technique will definately work to help you up that hill. How to save your knees and ankles. In a phrase, get some walking sticks. Not one but two. Telescoping trekking poles have been proven to remove TONS of pressure off of your knees. Many folks like the spring loaded versions to help cushion the shock of going downhill. Knee braces and supports are good but the poles will do much more for you. The biggest benefit for physical conditioning is not that you won't feel whuped on the trail, it is that you will recover faster when you get whuped. Get your scouts to walk and spend a couple of meetings just going for a small hike with backpacks on around where you meet. It really does make for an interesting meeting. In short you don't need to be an ironman to backpack. You just need to be in reasonably good condition. Granted the better your condition the easier it will be on you. The lesser the condition, well, just choose your trips and gear conservatively.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

Hmmmm...... Used to not be that way. Thanks for the info.

Thanks everyone. Eisely just how senior do you think I am? LOL.

This worries me. I have only been getting tour permits for camping trips and nothing else. Not only that, I fax in my tour permits in advance to the council and only once have I ever recieved a reply.

If you and your assistants are comfortable with doing it, you think the boys are ready and all the safety issues have been delt with then the troop is ready. Do your homework and have fun.

I was going to post a clarification to what I meant but Eisely said it quite well and I am in agreement. One point though, just like OGE had a very bad experience with a Snipe hunt I had a series of bad experiences with camporees. We had (when I was a scout) a few units in our district that would dismatle thier patrols and place all of their oldest and most experienced scouts into patrols strictly so they could win at camporees and then went back to normal afterwards. That specificly I have a problem with.

Hang on folks. Here is what I plan to post in the near future 1. Physical conditioning 2. Food and nutrition 3. Water and hydration 4. Gear and weight considerations 5. Trip planning 6. Other online and offline resources. 7. Stepping up to week long trips (High Adventure) and more as I think of it. Each subject will be in a different thread.

I intensely dislike the idea of "competition" patrols as defined as a patrol that never exists as a patrol outside of competition. It smacks of stacking the deck. If the rules state natural patrols and troops are creating patrols strictly to win in this one event then they are cheating. The patrol method was not designed to win contests. Rather than stack your patrols you should instead concentrate on bettering everyones skills and make ALL of your patrols better. When scouts join our troop they are placed in patrols. They get to spend a few months with their patrols and get to know each other. If there is a problem with a boy and his patrol it is rectified. Otherwise they are members of that patrol until they hold a leadership position such as SPL, ASPL, JASM or become a Life scout. When they hit that category they become part of the Leadership Corps (in affect a patrol). Our patrols function well with a mix of ages and abilities. I can not see any legitimate reason why ANY scouts should be excluded from camporees, it's not like many if any of them are high adventure. (although a high adventure camporee would be cool.) "They are new" So stinking what. Let them experience all that scouting has to offer. When I was a PL I worked my butt off to make my patrol the best it could be. When we went to camporees and had to compete against "competition" patrols composed of 16-18 year old Eagles I felt cheated. Alexiv in your situation there is no easy answer. There have been times when we had to mix patrols to get enough guys to even compete. The boys should choose who is in their patrol not adults. The only fair way for it to work in my mind would be to let those going re-form patrols of their own choosing. As a Scoutmaster I would let this decision fall to you the SPL and your PLC.

I had heard that a while back. Just wondering if we got want we were expecting.

Many of you know that I have been active on this forum for a few years now and we don't really discuss much beyond our love for all things Scouting and Scouting related. However, we have learned a fair amount about each other through our posts and I would like to share this with those of you who may have gotten to know me a little bit through our online discussions. So.... I am very pleased to announce that my wife and I are now expecting our first child.