Mike F

Wow - these are great ideas!! Much better than solo - I am once again amazed and humbled. Thanks! -mike

All the preaching to boys about importance of coordinating actions with your buddy and maintaining balance in canoes while in Boundary Waters this summer and -- you guessed it -- the only canoe to go over was the adults. "Check this out guys -- here's how NOT to do it!" Fortunately the camera in fanny pack was in waterproof box...

Cary, I hear you. Did your advisor have a problem due to boots not broken in? Physical fitness is definitely one of the subjective criteria we'll use. During upcoming discussion with adults, I'm going to relay a tragic story from our former SM. When he was a youth at Philmont, they had an adult advisor die of a heart attack on the trail. That was before the current weight standards, but underscores the fact they are there for a reason. Any motivated adult has plenty of time to get in shape. Problem is that we need to let people know where they stand very soon so we have to go by our

Surely someone has faced this before - we have more than twice as many adult volunteers than we have slots for them. Any suggestions on how to decide who gets to go? Considering previous level of participation on campouts, etc., as the prime factor. Other subjective considerations: fitness level, backpacking experience, whether or not they went last time, general attitude (positive vs more negative), etc. No idea how to balance out the adult who is a big supporter and goes on most campouts, but can have a somewhat negative attitude. Or what about the adult who has a great at

Per the books, SPL should appoint his staff. He'll be working closely with ASPL (and others) and they need to be guys he's comfortable with and has confidence in. Recommend this be done with SM consultation. Same thing in the Patrol -- the PL selects his APL, etc.

Some (rare) kids will naturally attack that list of requirements like a stack of pancakes after a survival weekend. We might not be able to slow them, nor do we necessarily want to, but we need to heap equal praise and encouragement on the ones who are enjoying the scenery along the way. It's OK to spend a week at camp and only come home with one (or no) merit badge. Let's hear about the hikes he took, the coyote tracks he found, the wood duck nest in the hollow tree, and the perfect target score. Similarly, it's OK to not make Eagle. He shouldn't feel like a failure if he doesn't

How about "Monty Scout and the Holy Grill" or "Holey Bucket"? Recommend taking an evening with brainstorming crew, watch the movie, get a big pad of paper and start the ideas flowing. It will be great! Will the events have renaissance theme, too? Looking forward to hearing more -- sounds like fun!!

I'd much rather see an active scout come sliding in under the wire of his 18th birthday instead of a young Eagle who punches the ticket and drops out soon after. In my opinion, the boy who invests the bulk of his teen years (out to 17 or 18) as an active scout gets much more out of the program as a whole, even if he never reaches Eagle. On a related note, I had the opportunity to speak at an Eagle CoH last week. Started out my talk by noting that the Aims of scouting had to do with character, citizenship, and fitness. Note that reaching Eagle is not one of them. In fact, a boy can spe

I agree with this train of thought that the problem of immature boys on the path to Eagle should be worked within the Troop long before he gets to his Eagle BOR. Meeting the leadership requirements for Star and Life are a good start. Expectations for successful completion of the requirement at this level should be made crystal clear. This has almost nothing to do with holding a title or wearing a position patch and everything to do with performance. Use the standard Troop mechanisms to coach him along the way. Monitor progress. But if he doesnt show satisfactory leadership during his

Great idea! Along similar lines, I like to get more protein in the evening meal than standard Philmont and other freeze-dried fare usually have. Those little flecks of so-called chicken in the rice are hardly enough to help rebuild the muscles Ive been tearing down all day. Since I get tired of chewing so much jerky, Ive started carrying protein bars or ready-to-mix lo-carb protein shakes in packets.

Lots of good input above. Our local canoe training team swears by the big buckets, although I haven't used them (yet). Get ones with big o-ring seal, if you can find them. Whatever you use, recommend testing to be sure water-tight before trusting completely. Take to swimming pool, submerge completely and look for stream of bubbles. Clothing - avoid cotton, especially pants. Discount outdoor stores have nylon pants with zip-off legs for about $20. If guys get the ones with mesh liner, they can wear them like swim suits (i.e., no cotton briefs that stay wet all day). Shirts like

Ryon, That's probably the best way to do it with a troop your size. For larger troops, some prefer to use an optional method of grouping all the new guys into patrols together. This allows them to focus on the basic skills and advancement through First Class with the help of an older boy (called Troop Guide) and usually a dedicated Asst Scoutmaster. After a certain period of time (often 1 year) or upon completing First Class, they are allowed to move up into regular patrols with a mix of ages. There are Pros & Cons to this, too. Some larger troops still do it your way, but th

dferon, You'll find a difference of opinion about the composition of patrols out here. No argument - the guys will almost always prefer to be grouped together with a bunch of buds the same age. Why not? That's the way they learned in Cub Scouts and they are comfortable with it. Be aware - there are pros & cons. Worst is that leadership of peers is probably the most challenging of situations and generally requires more control from outside the patrol. I won't go into more here, but there are a lot of other threads on this subject. One titled "Single age vs mixed age

About the only way to ruin a cast iron dutch oven is to get it good and hot, then dump cold water on it. The resounding "crack" can be heard to the far side of the largest of campsites. Aluminum dutch ovens can be melted with fire that's too hot as some of our guys found out while heating on a propane "volanoe" burner to burn the crust out. Crust came out OK, but melted a 4" hole right through the dang thing. (I never liked cooking in it anyway - heat doesn't distribute as well in aluminum.)

We also pay dues ($5/month). Normal fundraisers (popcorn, Christmas wreaths, candles, etc.) - profits split 50/50 between Troop and Scout's account. This summer, we added some extra fundraisers explicitly for high-adventure trip where 100% of profits went to Scout's account. (Garage sale and car wash were winners. Cotton candy at ball park was not.) We still ran into trouble because we violated the caution above - spell out the details of how credit will be allocated in advance. Issues we had: Can adults going on the trip earn credit too? If an additional family member washes

We use "Thorns & Roses" for reflection at the end of our campfire on Saturday nights. Everybody takes a few seconds to tell their worst and best experience on the campout. After doing this for a while, it's really rewarding to see how the kids are looking at things differently. For example, they might (rightfully) say the rain shower in the late afternoon was a thorn, but the way they figured out how to cook dinner anyway was a rose. Leaders are always on the lookout for teamwork to praise as a legitimate rose. Getting to a campsite late due to car trouble might be the thorn, but the

red feather -- can you tell us more about how you used the sulfer powder? (I've heard about dusting it around ankles to stop ticks, but never more general use.) Good idea about keeping a Troop map with notes for the future!! Dale -- Lessons Learned in work -- I'll get them to you! -mike

We just got back from Boundary Waters and I wanted to get our two crew chiefs a special belt buckle, but was disappointed to find they don't offer them. (I thought they used to, but it's been a few years since I was up there.) Any ideas on finding something like this? (I've already sent email to trading post manager to recommend such a buckle -- young staffers on duty last week were too overwhelmed by crowd to take any notes on the subject.) Thanks in advance. -mike

We're back! Outstanding trip!! Mosquitoes weren't much of an issue until the last few evenings due to low rainfall earlier in summer. We did get a bit of rain every day and one spectacular thunderstorm/hail storm which interrupted a big fish fry (had 16 walleye, sm mouth bass, and pike) -- only got to eat about half of it, but our neighborhood bald eagle was delighted at the offerings left on a rock the next morning. Only significant injury was some pretty good slashes when an enthusiastic angler discovered a Leatherman tool isn't quite long enough to extract a Daredevil lure from deep

Eagledad/Barry - we're flying, or I'd be asking about bedding down in your scout hut or backyard! Got some good rates on Frontier - $265 round trip to Minneapolis, then rental vans from there. eagle90/Dale - I'll do that - just put note in envelope with check, so I won't forget. And I'll let him know you were the first to recommend NCCO (but not the only -- the word's out). Do you get a finders fee? I'm bringing a book of Robert Service poems -- boys are gonna get some culture while I've got 'em where they can't run!

We have two crews leaving for Ely on Tuesday and everybody is really pumped. Can't wait to get the guys on something besides Houston area bayous! We're working through North Country Canoe Outfitters, John Schiefelbein, thanks to the reference from this group. So far they have been outstanding! I'll let you know how it goes.

Yes! Outstanding!!!!

yarrow, I agree. Got on a rant that eventually stumbled around this topic a while back -- won't repeat, but you read about it here: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=18739#id_18739 We're going back to mixed age patrols in the Fall. It's been an uphill struggle with lots of switchbacks, but I think we're almost there. Key to winning folks over was checking out other troops in area that are using mixed age and having some good discussions about the details of how things are working. Good luck!

Bob White, In response to your question: "I have to ask where the idea that the venture patrol is a program change within unit comes from. The Venture Patrol is a standard part of troop operation." SM Handbook, page 142, first sentence under heading VENTURE PATROLS: "A Venture patrol is an optional older-boy patrol..." Some may opt to use them. Some may opt not to. Neither is wrong - it's optional. If you're currently structured one way and plan to change, it's a change to the program that needs full discussion and buy-in at all levels. I have boys in two different troops -

Two comments and a consideration: First - a change in Troop structure to use the Venture patrols equates to a change in the execution of the program. Not unreasonable to have Troop Committee buy-in. Second - the pitfalls of pulling the experienced boys out of regular patrols are right on. We've been moving our guys out of regular patrols and into Venture when they began High School and troop leadership has been going downhill every since. We're probably going to delay move to Venture Patrol until at least the Sophmore year and maybe Junior. A sister troop in area has had same pro