BadenP

It really amazes me how much furor has been created and how so many defer to the IG like it is the Holy Bible, which it is not. Those pontificating uniform police in this forum need to look at the original question and ask themselves, with all the problems the BSA is facing today is this really an issue that should even matter at all? Insignia Guidelines are just that guidelines, not rules or bylaws, they are not mandates or commands, so to you UP out there get over yourselves already and put that energy to better use like maybe improving the quality of your unit program.

Actually this thread seems more a battle over semantics than anything else or a misunderstanding of the meaning of a word by certain folks.

And all of these situations just go to prove it is time to do some reshuffling of the Webelos program which is where the BSA are losing boys in greater numbers than any other program. 2 years of doing the exact same thing, the exact same way will be a bore to most boys, and they deserve better.

The problem is 89 that by the time a scouting pro makes SE the majority of them have lost that helper mode and reverted into a self serving mode with the goal to get promoted to National. Truefully many of them just wanna get away from the problems of running a council and from volunteers. Sad but true.

Sounds okay to me as well, they better watch out for your lad though, lol.

gee hankins still bragging on I see, lol. Scouting is all about being part of a team whether as a youth or an adult we all share in the successes as well as the defeats in our units, it is NEVER my unit or my boys. All of us volunteers are part of an even bigger National team which National office should pay closer attention to, IMHO.

Gee hankins nothing like dragging up an old thread to brag on yourself, lol.

Abel What Hankins related is more the exception than the rule, however professional scouting , once you reach the SE level, is a good old boys network that looks after their own and most of them are just transferred to another council. Some I am familiar with from my days as a DE were promoted to National and PTC.

I think that Oak Tree and le Voyageur's posts sum up very well what is happening within the LDS hierarchy and with LDS influence on scouting. I too think the Mormons as a whole are great people but the hierarchy is as corrupt as any body given that much power. You can only pull the wool over your membership for so long before you are found out and they in turn hold you accountable or they vote with their feet and leave the LDS. The same thing is happening in many Christian congregations today, a clerical collar does not grant you immunity from your deeds.

Man this thread has been the victim of one of the biggest scams in the history of this forum,and that still has a few holdouts who think it is legit. Time to share the apple pie al la mode and move on to bigger and better things. Heres to page 35!, lol

I agree with Frank and others, bylaws usually indicate control issues or lack of control within the unit. The BSA have enough rules to cover most situations without creating more and causing more confusion among your youth and the parents. In my Venturing crew we do not use the forest green shirt, the youth have chosen an alternative uniform which is their option. I am the only adult leader with the complete green shirt and gray pants uniform which I wear for district and council events in which I am asked to help officiate, why because young scouts and parents will ask me about the uniform and the venturing program, and it puts me on par with my other scouters from cubs and boy scouts. I however do not expect the youth or other leaders in the crew to own or wear that uniform because it is not the crew's official uniform. As far as a BOR or EBOR is concerned the uniform is not the only or most important way they should measure a scouts readiness for advancement or his scout spirit.

Abel' To answer your question the topics in quotes were what the speakers started with as to what the content of their class was really about, the published titles were, How to Make Your Volunteers Do What You Think Is Best for Your District, How to make FOS a Success: Manipulating All Your District's Financial Resources, How to Effectively Deal with or Eliminate Problem Volunteers. The final analysis was how to control and manipulate key volunteers and key people in your district, and nothing about how we work for the council volunteers, quite the opposite in fact. "You work as a representative of National through the guidance of an SE who sets the vision and priorities of the council as National's representative, and who selects an executive committee of volunteers to assist him in carrying out that vision."( NEI-1)

But did you guys notice he wasn't only wearing a shirt from over 30 years ago but he was wearing jeans, where are the uniform police when you need them, lol. Anyone out there who really thinks this is in anyway representative of the BSA is a lost cause to start with, it is nothing more than satire, SNL style. It might be good for a laugh and thats about it.

Al Interesting piece of nonsense, after watching the trailer I hardly think it will be a major blockbuster. Obviously made by someone with issues about scouting, but somehow the BSA will survive I am sure. That camp scene was pretty funny.

Good catch Fred. And for you units who do have your own tax exempt number when you do file expect to get red flagged and a letter from the IRS asking you why you have not filed before, and a probable follow up audit. This is the reason why individual units should never have their own tax exempt status since there are annual reporting requirements.

Yeah Brent those are the same surveys that said Sarah Palin would be a great president, man don't you read any credible news reports or listen to any other news than Fox and Limbaugh. Surveys are like polls slanted from the beginning to obtain a desired response and they mean NOTHING!. You sure are a sad piece of work and a source of abundant false information, and the saddest part is that you believe it is true.

An Eagle mill is not a method of doing scouting, but it is a strong indicator that a troop has gotten way off the track on the methods of scouting introduced by Baden Powell. Some of the worse cases of mills I have encountered were many LDS troops and troops run by ex military drill sergeants both of whom have very different agendas from traditional scout troops. To answer Posuwed's question the BSA would be better off without these rogue units because IMHO they present the scouting program in a very negative light. These troops are not boy run, and to be honest the boys have very little to no input as to the content and direction of the program. To put it plainly that is not the way BP created the program to run, and he was ex military.

Brent Truly you are one of the most despicable people I have ever come across on any forum. Your arrogance and outright nasty demeanor really highlights your ignorance of many important issues facing humanity today. Additionally you excel at portraying the stereotypical image that many people have of southerners as being intolerant,backwards and uneducated, and if I was a southerner I would be totally disgusted by your behavior. Your Limbaugh style of bullsh#t doesn't impress or intimidate me either, you truly are a sad and bitter person. So continue to play your little games here but as far as I am concerned you have not one ounce of credibility, honesty or kindness. IMHO you represent everything that is wrong with a certain uninformed and unenlightened group in our country, and with some leadership in the BSA. So take your potshots because as far as I am concerned you are a total waste of time and humanity.

And one who is Mentally Awake would not get all his scientific information from the news media whose ability to present an unbiased report of the facts is sorely lacking. One who is Mentally Awake would not be so closed minded to potential environmental problems just because his political party says it aint so. One who is Mentally Awake would care about the preservation of our environment especially if he is a scout leader, otherwise he should resign from that position instead of poisoning the minds of the youth he leads with his own misinformation and personal prejudices. Shame on you Brent!!!

Yes science is only theory until it is proven to be true by empirical evidence. The problem with global warming is that if it is true, which I think the signs are there now, the full effects will not be seen until long after we are all gone from this earth, and then it will be too late to do anything about it, and we have doomed future generations. Our selfishness and political disagreements have stalled any widescale global effort to really look into this problem. No one can realistically argue that they have not seen environmental damage caused by the way we live. Pollution of our oceans, waterways, rainforests, and wildlands are very real and can be seen firsthand right now. One thing science does show us is how little we truly know about the nature of the world we live in. Hiding our heads in the sand denying that we have a serious global environmental problem, and behind empty political rhetoric is not going to accomplish anything beneficial. We need to think about future generations instead of our own self centered interests of this generation.

No Brent they are incompetent so called scientists out there, as there are in every profession and when they are exposed that is good. However to dismiss years of research by a myriad of scientists because of one bad one is shortsighted and prejudiced to say the least. Try reading some of the credible research first before you start taking potshots at the whole scientific establishment. That is typical of the kind of reporting Fox and Limbaugh do all the time, condemn before even attempting to learn all the facts, that used to be called "yellow journalism", today sadly it has become the accepted norm. WAKWIB now you know the reason for my comment to Brent, this is his standard MO.

Brent I bet you also get all your news from the Fox network as well, in addition to Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson, lol. If nothing else you really are always good for laugh.

Scoutfish If you ever organized any type of poll you would know all polls are organized to go after a specific demographic and are usually just a small sampling of that demographic, say a few hundred to a couple of thousand. In this case say you asked a thousand scouts, which demographic will you go after, inner city troops, rural troops, wealthy, middle class, or poor troops. If you say all of them then your poll would be too diluted and diverse to be truly useful. Thats why your idea of polling a 100,000 scouts may sound good but is not really practical. In a troop from a well to do area their answer might be going to Philmont or the Seabase, while from a poor troop your answer might be to be able to afford uniforms or equipment for the troop. So you see why the polls are nothing more than a projection of a current trend from a very specific group for a very specific time period. Polls were never meant to serve the purpose that this particular thread is addressing, at best all they can do is to give you a possible starting point, but even that point will not be indicitive of the entire groups opinion.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

I agree with the others, it is a great idea but the timing is lousy and school is in full bore. I think St. Louis Council really dropped the ball here and my crew was looking forward to going to the event. Oh well.

Sorry Hilo but I think you are wrong because if you ask a 100 boys why they left scouts you will probably get 100 different answers each unique to that boy. Even if you got some duplicate answers they would hardly be enough to reinvent the program. No, polls only give you some possible trends but nothing really concrete to build from.