Lisabob

Couple of weeks ago I was visiting family in a little farming town. It rained buckets every day I was there, cold, wet, soggy. One day I drove past the only restaurant in town to see that a small herd of cub scouts (all dripping wet in the rain) were attempting to hold a car wash, evidently without much success. They were looking pretty deflated. Add me to the list of softies. I got my car "washed," in the rain, for $10. And yes, I bought a cup of lemonade too!

re: the SMART thing, as a social scientist I found the delivery of it to be laughably poor at WB, particularly the specific and measurable parts. Those are not such easy concepts to put into practice. If adults struggle with it I really don't see it resonating well with kids. Sometimes a simple "gut check" is really all that is needed, and is a lot easier for people (kids in particular) to grasp. Does this feel right? Am I doing this out of frustration/anger/spite? How would I feel if I were on the receiving end? That sort of thing probably works better for most situations than a formal assessment.

We've been told new-new uniform only, which is a bit annoying since the BOGO sales on the switchbacks do not include the newest style. And we've been cautioned not to buy the new shirts now either, since they might change slightly again before this time next year. My son has a pair of the older switch backs (slightly lighter shade of green than the newer ones) that he'll probably still be able to wear as shorts by next year and I expect he'll take them. What are they going to do, rip them off him? He'll have a pair of the newer pants too for occasions when it really matters to (whoever) that all the boys are wearing the exact same shade of pea soup green, but I imagine there'll be plenty of time during the day to wear the other BSA-issue uniform shorts.

So, xl, where'd you do your wood badge course?

So xl, where'd you do your Wood Badge course?

Welcome, hurtonk. Boards like this one are a good source. You might also ask around at your district's monthly Round Table meetings. Chances are good that other scouters there will have experience with a lot of camps in your area. You asked about NC - my son's troop attended Camp Bonner/Pamlico Sea Base two summers ago and they had a very good time. Bonner runs a traditional BSA summer camp program for the younger fellows (and older boys who want that environment), including a good COPE program. Pamlico offers high adventure options for the troop's older boys, including Sailing School and Sea Kayak treks. We had boys do all of the above and reviews were generally quite positive. One other thing I'll say for the folks at Bonner & Pamlico was that they had a very well organized registration process (and as the paperwork person, I appreciated that a lot). Hope this helps. I'm sure others here will chime in about camps in the states you mentioned too.

Small troops have their advantages, but with only 4-6 boys you are going to be in perpetual danger of not being able to recharter (you need 5 I believe) if just one or two of them drops out, or ages out. So a somewhat larger troop would probably reduce your stress level a bit. Things you mentioned that I don't necessarily have a problem with: camping 10 months a year and taking June/July off (do you go to summer camp?). Lots of troops take a month or two off and are still successful, although I'm certain some people will tell you that you shouldn't do it. Camping 10 months a year is pretty good too. What is your attendance rate like at those camp outs? Are there other things going on that also might account for the small size of the troop? Is there a good reason why you only meet every other Sunday? Or is it just "we've always done it like this?" I think if I were in your shoes, I might want to see the troop meeting at least one more time a month for starters. Maybe meet three Sundays and have the camp out on the 4th weekend. Or have a PLC meeting (heck, with 4-6 boys, the whole troop should be at that meeting) as your additional meeting. Good luck to you, and I hope you'll keep us updated here. It is always interesting to learn about how other folks do things. I know there are several regular posters on this forum who have faced some similar challenges with very small troops, too.

Call your scoutmaster today and explain your situation. He or she knows you and the resources available in your area far better than anybody here.

We're kind of drifting away from Eamonn's original topic and I don't want to get too focused on higher ed here. But on the topic of paths to success, yes of course there are many ways to be successful and not all paths lead through a 4 year university/college. Also some people really are not ready at age 17-18-19 to make the sort of commitment that success in college requires, and they would be better advised not to waste their time and (somebody's) money. On the flip side, I know from having been an adult student, and from teaching a lot of adult students, that there are serious costs to waiting, too. One thing late teens and early 20-somethings do tend to have in their favor is a lack of other commitments in their lives. About the military folks, I've noticed they tend to be fine students but their patience for some of their more traditional classroom peers who don't have much life experience is often (understandably) lacking. And of course those folks who come back from the military in bad shape (physically or mentally) can really face some challenges when it comes to schooling. sheldonsmom, good for both of your kids that they've found a path that suits them.

Not sure that it is a sign of an adult-run troop, so much as a sign of parents (who probably aren't scouters) not understanding the program. I think an SM or CC would be within their rights to tell parents up front long before leaving for camp - nobody goes home on Friday night so don't even think about it. (maybe phrases a little more diplomatically)

I spent a lot of summers working at (non scout) camps. My experience was that it took about 3 days for most campers to adjust to their new surroundings and really get into things, let down their guards, and open up to new experiences. Days 4-6 were always better. By day 7, the youngest kids were ready to go home (by which I mean 7-9 year olds) but the older kids were fine. Most of our campers stayed for two weeks (or longer) and week two was a blast. That's when you really got to know the kids. Of course, the camps I worked at, parents were not expected to stay with the kids, and that also changed the dynamic. Some scout troops I know have nearly a 1:1 ratio kids/adults at camp! (Which I think is more than a bit crazy, by the way) But shortening camp to just 4 days in order to accommodate adult schedules would be detrimental to the kids and the program, in my view. If adult schedules become a problem, set it up so that one group of adults is there for the first part of the week, and a different group replaces them later in the week.

shortridge, maybe I missed something but I understood uz2b's caps to cost about $12. That's about the same as one of the "official" cub caps, so quite a savings for a family that would otherwise buy all 4 (Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos) over the years at $12.99 each. But I kinda have to agree, the caps aren't that important. Lots of folks just don't bother buying them and I don't think it has a negative impact on their cub experience.

Glad you're feeling better. Honestly, I don't know that it was the "wealth redistribution thing" as you phrase it, that got Obama elected. I think there was a whole lot of other stuff going on, ranging from a deep anger at the Republican party (even within their own base), concerns about McCain's age + Palin's readiness and both of their temperaments, Obama's gift for public speaking, and a positive tone to Obama's campaign. I know many of my students - even the ones who didn't like Obama - felt that his "yes we can" message, while perhaps short on specifics, was at least an improvement over the incessant negativity of so many other politicians. Then too, the economy was in free fall, the war in Iraq had never been less popular, and trust in Bush's alleged "leadership" was at an all time low. Take almost any Democratic presidential candidate in the last 20 years and practically any of them would have had an excellent chance of winning in that climate. THe only people I know who chalk up Obama's win to "wealth redistribution" and such are the Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck types, who use the scary "socialist" boogey man argument to boost their audience ratings.

scoutldr, I get that you're outraged but I am a little puzzled. When did Pelosi and/or Obama say they wanted to take away your retirement savings?

Dunno Beavah, I am (thankfully) not one of them. And I have seen enough bad management to be sympathetic to what you are saying. Probably anybody working in higher ed has seen the same. My point, though, was that we take a lot of things for granted as citizens of a state. We want, want, want but then on the flip side, we feel we "deserve" a tax cut! Can't have it both ways, at least not in the long term. That, to me, is why the Republican party (in the last 20 years or so) deserves the label "borrow & spend Republicans." They've led a lot of people astray. At least (some) Democrats are a little more up-front - hey, you want that? Great, somebody's gonna pay for it through taxes ! Then it just becomes a question of who that "somebody" should be. Now Obama, I think he figured out a way to have the best of both worlds. You want this and that and the other thing, great, the wealthy can pay for it. We can argue about whether that will work, but I kinda don't blame him for trying. You can't win elections by telling people straight up that their taxes are going to increase if they vote for you. I think the last national candidate of note to try that was Mondale.

Yeah the phones are supposed to be turned off! Try policing that though. Would be one thing if parents were a little more willing to play along and refuse to let the kids take the phones to school in the first place, but as it is, they're not. Parents call their kids during classes! They get upset at teachers who take the phones away from kids. Teachers signed on to teach, not to patrol for errant cell phone users. It gets discouraging sometimes. I know the objection - "but what if there's a family emergency and I need to reach Johnny???" to which my answer is, then call the school office and tell them about it. Or at the very least, give kids one chance. If they get caught misusing the phone during the day, parents (not the school) should take it away. Ya know, be parental about it!

Yeah I love California. I use them as an example of how direct democracy (everybody gets to vote directly on policies) can be problematic sometimes. Voters get to require more and more and more services via referendum without a thought for how to pay for them, then they get all upset whenever anybody in the legislature talks about taxes and fee hikes to cover those mandated services. It's nuts. It only works if everybody is well informed and responsible, and we all know that's not the case. Politicians get the blame too though; how often do we hear folks from either party really explaining the trade offs and true costs of desired policies? At least Ah-nold tried that not so long ago but now everybody is mad at him! Go figure.

Ed, I can agree to a point but then we get to the real issue of where is the money going? I think a lot of times, if people better understood the budget, they'd complain less. About raises. Well I guess one can argue they're not needed for a lot of folks on the higher end of the pay scale. On the other hand, there are MANY state employees, ranging from the folks who pave the roads to many of the folks teaching your kids in public schools/universities, who are not paid a glamorous salary. Not all of them, mind you, but a lot of them. They do not deserve to see their already modest salaries eaten away by cost of living increases, to the point where they could make a better living working at BOrders or Starbucks. There are people teaching full time at the public university where I work, people with PhDs mind you, who make less than $30,000/year. Yes, they could use a raise. I guess this is a sore spot for me. Recently, many state universities in MI announced tuition hikes. Most were small, 3-5%. But this was not the first time in recent years that tuitions have gone up. There was a hue and cry about this. Newspaper editorials, letters to the editor, angry legislators, etc. And yes, our students are struggling to pay the bills and stay in college, but where do people think our schools get the money to operate? What is news to a lot of angry taxpayers and a lot more angry parents of college kids, is that the state has either cut or failed to increase funding for its 15 state universities for practically all of the last 10 years. The percentage of state university budgets that is paid for by state aid has steadily declined (and this isn't just in my state, but a nationwide trend), meaning that the difference has to come from somewhere else - which turns out to be student tuition dollars. Meantime, cost of operating has not held steady and certainly hasn't dropped. At the school where I work, faculty and staff members have been laid off or cut back to part time. People have given back scheduled raises and other perks. And of course, students (and their parents) increasingly expect dormitories that resemble luxury hotel suites and rec centers that rival elite private clubs - not just at the state's flagship campuses, either. Looking at other schools, I'm sure you've seen that many K-12 schools are no longer offering summer school because it is too expensive. Locally, schools in our area have cut their bus routes back (some got rid of busing entirely and left it up to the parent to figure out how to get junior to the school they built on the edge of town). They've cut music, art, and other extracurriculars, increased fees for sports, reduced field trips, laid off teachers, cut janitorial services, increased class sizes, stopped buying textbooks and other supplies, and left the lights off in the classrooms during the school day. Now beyond schools, I live in a state where the roads are literally falling apart because 10 years ago, our then-governor stopped funding bridge and highway repairs in order to give a "deserved" tax cut to folks! We are consistently rated in the top ten of "bad roads" in the country as a result. Thank goodness for the stimulus money, which is funding some much-needed repairs. I have lived and traveled in a number of states, including yours Ed, and I've never been anywhere with roads as bad as Michigan. Again locally, some towns have closed or cut back hours at public libraries because there isn't enough money to operate them. I think that's a mark that we've really gone down the wrong path. Free libraries are a sign of a society that values access to information and culture for all. I guess we aren't that kind of society any more. So sure, get mad. Be upset that governments don't always use tax dollars efficiently. But cutting more money from the budget to punish somebody really only results in punishing yourself, and all of the other citizens of your state too. I don't like taxes very much but I'd gladly pay more, in return for services that matter to me.

Great question. It is really hard to get scouts to think outside of their own past experiences. I know we've suffered the same thing with our troop's various efforts to have a functional venture patrol (which, in its current incarnation, was started back up with boys who are all aged 12-14). The challenge is that you say "well guys, what do you want to do?" and because they have no idea of what is possible, you get a lot of blank looks back. One jumpstart method is for adults to pick out three or four trips THEY were willing to do, and put them on the table for the boys to consider. Some of these started small. For example a 2 night backpacking trek (exciting if the boys are accustomed to car camping). You can build up to higher adventure once the boys have done some of this smaller stuff. You could also bring in those nice glossy flyers or web videos from the national HA bases (or local ones). I know our guys were practically drooling after they saw the Florida Sea Base and the Northern Tier material. The other might be to ask other troops who have a functional HA program to share what they have done. Best if you can get boys from that troop to visit with pictures of their trip, but even just a list of activities might help prime the pump. The challenge to the first is that adults also need to know when to let go. The idea is to feed beginning ideas, not set the troop's agenda and run it for them.

Hello Russ, Why don't you email the council office and explain what you're trying to do? They may be able to put you in touch with some people who can help you.

" The problem is we keep electing people from both parties that don't tell the truth. Anyone who does doesn't have a prayer of being elected." You want to know something funny? I teach American gov't to large #s of college students. Every semester I "run" a brief campaign. My pledge is that I will raise taxes, cut services, make tough decisions some of them won't like. I'll acknowledge our challenges in both domestic and international contexts, and I won't be able to fix some of them. Sometimes I'll have to choose between a set of bad options, and hope that I'm choosing the least-bad of the lot. When I get all done with my stump speech, I ask how many will vote for me. What's really funny is that even though I would always "lose," consistently about 1/3 of my students respond quite positively to such a doom-and-gloom approach (and I lay it on pretty thick). They say they'd appreciate someone who doesn't make impossible promises or tell them what they'd like to hear, in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. So I have hope for us as voters, but only for about 1/3 of us...still, I kinda hope some of the other 2/3 are more aware of the fact that politicians usually over-sell and that life isn't as simple as the soaring rhetoric found in stump speeches tends to suggest. (as for CA, if they would get rid of the stupid 1970s-era state law that requires special majorities any time they want to raise taxes or impose new fees, it would probably help them. You can't add more and more and more benefits with no new revenue stream to sustain them.)

hello and welcome, mbrown! I guess you might have noticed that uniforming is sort of a hot button issue with a lot of people. I hope you'll stick around the forum though. Most of the time this is a pretty helpful place to be, even if it is just to realize that the way things are in one person's neck of the woods is not necessarily they way things are everywhere. I know I've learned a lot from many people here. Your in Scouting, Lisa

Maybe you owe him a bit of thanks for participating in your troop's fundraiser last year even though he wasn't active the entire rest of the year. He didn't have to do that much. He might not feel as comfortable with you as the previous SM. Different personalities, etc. I know boys in my son's troop, which has had 3 SMs in his 5 years, have gone through this too. Well so what; part of life is learning to get along with different folks and scouting is good practice for that. But really, call him up and ask for a friendly meeting. Not an invitation to go camping or attend a troop meeting where he can easily blow you off with a vague answer - a personal, face to face meeting. Something along the lines of "Hi Joe, this is Mr. Scoutmaster. I know you turned 17 recently, happy birthday! Now that you are getting close to the end of your time as a boy scout, I would like to sit down with you (and your mom/dad) to hear what you'd like to do in scouting this year. Would next Tuesday at 7pm at ___ location be convenient for you? " He might be kind of shocked, and also maybe a little impressed, that some adult is making an effort to hear from him what he wants. (instead of telling him what he needs to do) When you have this meeting, he will either assert that he still wants to earn Eagle, or he'll say he's content to be Life for Life. In the former, that opens a door to talking about what he needs to accomplish. In the latter, you can let him know you still respect all that he has accomplished to date (you do, right?). And either way you can invite him again to attend some specific upcoming events. If he truly seems uninterested, you can also ask whether he even WANTS you to continue carrying him on the roster as a registered scout. Maybe he has no intention of being active again and would just as soon be dropped. You won't know if you don't ask.

Hey hops, long time, no see (or read). Hope you're well. It might make you feel just a smidge better to know that several very large banks recently told California "no more IOUs!" Of course these are many of the same banks who took (or in some cases were forced to take) fed govt bail outs to stay in business last late last year (under Bush) and earlier this year, then sat on most of the money they were given, rather than using it to make loans to people who would have been credit-worthy. Seems those banks are not feeling too charitable themselves. As for screwed up state politics, well it is just screwed up everywhere! In MI, they routinely wait til after the fiscal year has begun to set the budget. And then they take money back from various state-funded institutions (like schools) after the money has been promised and spent. In Indiana, they only narrowly avoided a total shut down of state gov't last week by coming up with a half-finished state budget at the very last minute. New York - well who even wants to look there, they can't even figure out who is really in charge and have run "dueling" legislative sessions lately! As far as I can see (and yes, this is sort of a partisan moment) a lot of this is the hang over we're all now suffering as a result of the fast & easy 90s when states were flush with cash because the economy was fine. Lots of states - especially those controlled by Republican legislatures - cut taxes, stopped investing in infrastructure and services, and crowed about how low the burden was on their citizens! Yeah, great, when times are good and money is flowing freely. Not great when times get tough and infrastructure is crumbling due to years of under-investment.

From what you wrote, I am supposing that he met the activity requirements and POR requirements (he was SPL after becoming a Life Scout). I think I would request a sit-down meeting with the scout and his parent(s). I would lay out at that meeting what you have written here. I would also ask the boy point blank whether there is a reason for his absence. Is the program no longer to his liking? Is he too busy with other activities and scouting is no longer a high priority? Does he have a job that conflicts, etc.? I'd stress that you will not respect him less for moving on in his life if that's what he has chosen, but that if he does intend to work on his Eagle with the troop, then you need to see him being part of the troop again. And I'd do all of this in front of his parents so that 8 or 9 months from now, there are no ugly surprises. Also so that, if he really isn't that interested and it is a parent who is pushing him, you are giving him an out, right in front of them. He can opt to take that out then and there and another adult (you) will back him up. I would follow that up with a friendly email to the scout (keep a copy in your records) expressing appreciation that he met with you, and reiterating what was discussed. I'd also make this, in plain language, a standing invitation to the boy to rejoin the troop at any time, whether his goal is to make Eagle or not. And that he will be welcome to submit an application as an adult scouter once he turns 18, again whether he ends his youth tenure as a Life scuot or an Eagle scout. Either way you look at it, both are impressive accomplishments and obviously this is a good kid (else he wuoldn't be a Life scout and former SPL of the troop, right?). All of this is a little bit less formal than a letter and it gives you a chance to understand the dynamics driving this young man at this point in his life. The letter, to me, is kind of a "I'm wiping my hands of you" sort of move (or can be perceived that way) and I can see why your CC might not want you to do that. Hope this helps.