Lisabob

I can't wait to share these ideas. Thank you all, and if you have more, please add them!

Going back to Jeff's original issue, I think part of the problem is the dues that the pack is charging. I understand trying to keep things reasonable but $10 for the year means the pack gets nothing and the entire dues goes to national. If you're trying to save the families money and/or are worried about some families not being able to afford more, ask yourself whether those same families are the ones who don't typically make their sales "quota"? Because I know that if I'm trying to squeeze my paycheck, about the last thing I want is to buy a tin of over-priced boyscout popcorn, the cheapest of which is $7 or $8 and which only gives a couple of dollars to the pack. I'd rather just pay an extra $5-$10 in dues! (Don't get me wrong, I understand where the money from the popcorn goes, I support the popcorn sale, etc., I'm just thinking about it purely from the perspective of my occasionally anemic wallet.) Also, a lot of "working poor" and struggling families do not have either the time or the socio-economic network to support their kid going door to door to sell a whole bunch of popcorn, because they're working two-three jobs and/or they are single parents with little family support. Not saying this is true for all people in those positions, but in my experience it is more common than not. And by the way, to earn the pack about $50 will require a boy to sell approximately $150 of popcorn. That's not bad if a boy has neighbors and relatives who can each buy some, but it is more problematic if a family doesn't have a local network who can afford to do that. And if a kid can't get rid of $50 worth of $1 candy bars, I doubt they're going to sell $150 of popcorn either. So - your pack is chronically short on money and about half of the folks aren't meeting the sales quota. Ok, raise dues a little bit, say $10 per family, and you've already gone a good way toward solving your problem. That's still not the $50/family you had hoped for, but then some families will sell a lot more popcorn than "required" so it should balance out. And $20 for a year's worth of activity is still a real deal. Make sure families understand where their money is going when they pay dues, too. If you're worried about people not being able to afford an extra $10, you can either let them pay it $1 a week (den dues) or in $5 installments or whatever works best for you/them, or you can offer scouterships (is that the word I want?) to those who need it, TBD by your pack committee upon request from a family.

Couple of other options for your older boys: Florida Sea Base and Pamlico Sea Base (in NC) are both at least regional. Our boys went to Pamlico this summer and had a blast. They also run a traditional camp (Bonner) for the younger guys who aren't ready for high adventure and it, too, got rave reviews. Our troop did a trip to Yellowstone three years ago in lieu of traditional summer camp. For us it that was 2 day drive (airfare was prohibitive). The people who went had a good time but two of the major criticisms I heard were a) that they were constantly exhausted (not enough time scheduled to just enjoy themselves/be kids, and up til 11 or later every night) and b) it was a LOT of driving. They were gone for 10 days, 4-5 of which were on the road. Just something to keep in mind as you plan a trip further afield.

Scoutldr, I agree with the gist of what you wrote, but I think I failed to make clear what I was referring to. We have an active troop of about 40 boys who do camp every month. Couch potato types who prefer their game boys, TVs, and pepsi do not tend to join our troop. But, a lot of what we do is the dreaded "car camping" and the older boys get a little lulled into a routine by that. And they seem to be hesitant about trying something else. What this Scouter in question is trying to do (and I agree with him) is to get some of our already-active older boys to try something a bit more challenging, as well as give them a chance to have some activities where the younger kids aren't involved (aka, avoid the "babysitting" complaint that older scouts tend to have). Ultimately he'd like to see the Venture Patrol do a longer "HA" trip like boundary waters or Philmont, but this is meant as a first step toward that goal. Now, we could try to compel them to attend as you suggest but that would sort of defeat the purpose. Plus, I seriously doubt that the Scouter who is proposing these outings wants to chaperone a bunch of unwilling 13-17 year olds! My question is more about how to peak their interest and desire, rather than about how to force them to do an activity that they're not sure of.

We are really fortunate in our troop to have a few adults who love to hike, backpack, and just get off the beaten path. For the last three years, one of these guys has been trying to drum up interest among the older scouts in doing more of these types of activities. Specifically, he'd like to see a Venture Patrol formed that could give the older boys in the troop some separate, more challenging activities. We have a history of doing well with keeping older boys active in the troop, and this is part of our effort to continue with that. Problem is, the boys express NO desire and don't generally respond to his overtures to try it (though some of the adults do!). This summer he tried once again and now that my son is old enough to be included, I was hoping he'd jump at the chance. He did not. I asked why, and he told me he wasn't so sure hiking and backpacking sounded like much fun. At least he's honest, but I know this response was disappointing to our Scouter who is trying to share his love of the outdoors with the boys. Today in another thread, Kudu writes: NEVER use the word "BACKPACKING" around children! Never, ever, ever! * A wilderness trek over flat land might be called a "Wilderness Trek" or B-P's term "Journey." Mountain climbing can be called "Mountain Climbing." Describe the trek NOT by lugging weight on your back ("backpacking"), but by an attractive destination such as a wading pool at the bottom of a waterfall, a remote fishing hole, or a scary night at a haunted lean-to. And I think that's a BIG part of the problem we're facing. I'm going to talk with the Scouter in our troop about re-framing his proposals to be more appealing (maybe including photos of a potential destination too). But in the meantime, what other tricks of the trade have you used to get skeptical boys to try - and then, hopefully, like - hiking and backpacking?

Thinking a little more about this - why don't you have the 4H kids do the demo, teach some rudimentary horse care skills like how to brush a horse, how to walk it, what a horse eats and how to feed it, how to muck a stall, etc., and then schedule a riding day at a nearby public stable that has the insurance, the proper safety equipment, and the kind of bomb-proof horse that is most likely to work well for your kids? It might cost more, but then you'll have fewer worries too. And your kids would still get the more personal intro to taking care of a horse that they might not get at a public stable. And, if you're really thinking ahead, how about also checking with the 4H adult to see if she would be willing to register as a merit badge counselor for the Boy Scout horsemanship badge too?

I don't think I'd want to use it for a SM minute either, for the simple facts that a) most kids won't have a clue who Craig is (or care, either) and b) most middle-school-aged boys are more likely to get hung up on the titillation factor ("eewww, he was trying to do what???") than on the moral behind the story, whatever one believes that moral to be. And then there's: c) Talking about sexual behavior or politics (or both together!) with youth at a scout function is to invite some pretty serious "feedback" from parents, and in this case that's a "gift" I think I'd rather not receive.

Speaking as a person who used to run a horseback riding camp and (formerly) certified riding instructor... Bike helmets are NOT an acceptable substitute for riding helmets. They are not made to the same specs. More over, the standard advice for the more recent bike-like riding helmets is, if you've taken a good fall with one, replace it because the foam won't cushion as well in the event of a future fall. Now, how many kids' bike helmets have been dinged up multiple times? And you want to put them on a horse with that? Nope. Chances are fairly high that everything would be ok, but you can't be sure about it. So regardless of what the G2SS does/doesn't say about this, I wouldn't let my kid do it, and I wouldn't allow someone else's kid get on my horse (if I still had one) with one of those bike helmets on. By the way, you want to ask about foot gear too. Many barns won't allow sneakers and will instead require a boot with some kind of heel. The reason for this is that (esp. with smaller kids) a sneakered foot can slip all the way through the stirrup and get caught if a kid should fall, resulting in being dragged. Yes, I have seen this happen, though again, it isn't common.

Hi there GA, and welcome (again). I think you've identified some really important issues that lots of troops face these days. And the fact that yours is a very new/young troop does make it a bit more of a challenge, if only because you've got a lot of other, unrelated issues to deal with too. On another thread recently someone brought up the presidential challenge fitness program. One thing I like about it is that it includes different levels of activity depending on how fit a person is to begin with, so it might not seem as daunting to the (until now) couch potato types. This might be something the boys (families?) in your son's troop would be willing to try out, or if nothing else, it might be a source of ideas and information for you as you try to encourage a little bit more healthy lifestyle for these guys. Here's a link to the President's Challenge program, a non-scouting national effort to improve fitness: http://www.presidentschallenge.org/ And here's the BSA "To Be Physically Fit" program. It matches up rather well with the concerns you've voiced here. Note the links (in grey) at the bottom of the page, for the specific requirements. http://www.scouting.org/pubs/19-327/index.html Either of these programs could be something you work on together as a troop, though they require additional activity at home too. If your boys agree to work on them together, then even just meeting once a week and charting progress might be enough for SOME of the boys to get motivated to keep working on their own during the rest of the week. If you do pursue this, make sure those skinny kids recognize that they, too, can improve their fitness - it isn't just about weight. The older boys in my son's troop did a high adventure sea kayaking trek this summer, and one of the boys who had the hardest time was the stick-thin kid with little upper body strength. As I suspect you know though, all of this has to be done from a perspective of fun/preparation for more fun, and not "you're fat!" Boys don't join (or stay with) boy scouts to be criticized, they join for fun and adventure. So do be careful about how you package this, if you choose to introduce these programs to the guys.

I appreciate all of the feedback. This is really a tough one for me. It is interesting that several of you suggested that this boy may have Aspergers Syndrome. We've had a couple of boys in the troop in the recent past who had AS, and they were NOTHING LIKE this young man in terms of their social skills and difficulties. So AS didn't occur to me as a possibility here. Part of the problem is, indeed, the mom. I don't blame her for being defensive - this boy has a reputation and has been removed from all sorts of programs (school, rec. sports, cub scouts) in the past. We lost an entire den of potential cross-over scouts because they found out "he" was joining our troop too. (He had been kicked out of that pack the year before.) So it must be really hard on her and opening up may seem like an invitation to removal - yet again. The cultural stuff is also difficult. The boy's father is from the Middle East (not mom) and all of his other relatives on his dad's side remain there, not here. Further, "dad" is only sporadically involved in the boy's life and is not supportive at all of (more like, actively hostile to)scouting. I'm not certain but I don't think "mom" has any nearby relatives to fall back upon, or at least, I've never heard the boy or "mom" mention any. I think my biggest concern is that I haven't seen our troop take the steps I think we ought to take before just throwing up our hands. Yes, this boy is difficult to work with. Yes, he requires a great deal more supervision than most boys, and yes, that can be a drain on our volunteers. And heaven knows, yes, most of these volunteers have been (or have tried to be) patient; the boy has been with the troop for a year and a half now. They're good-hearted people. But we haven't called in any experts to work with our ASMs/SM/Committee members to teach us about working with boys with his problems. We haven't, as a group, even looked at the supplemental training on special needs children put out by the BSA. So far as I know, only a couple of us have looked at it individually, and we're committee members rather than the front-line ASMs. We haven't looked the disabilities awareness MB. We haven't worked with our youth leaders to teach them better ways than just yelling to deal with this boy (yelling and bullying tend to make him melt down, but that's the first reaction that a lot of inexperienced youth/adult leaders tend to have when he doesn't listen/respond the way they want him to). The previous SM hasn't taken a systematic approach to working with "mom" because communication really isn't his big strength and "mom" has hardly been forthcoming. The previous CC wanted to oust this boy last year (he's a no nonsense type of guy), and the current CC, I'm pretty sure, would like to do the same rather than dealing with it. So I guess I'm really worried that what we have here is a fait accompli. We're going to have a committee meeting where this gets brought up, people are going to complain about him and their lack of training to work with a boy like this, and then they're going to vote to show him the door without ever taking these steps. Am I unreasonable in expecting that we at least try all (or most) of the above first? I expect I'm likely to be a voice in the wilderness on this though. A couple of other quick points: there is a "special needs" troop in our area but the members are not like this boy at all in terms of their disabilities and it wouldn't be a good fit. The SM of the other larger troop in town, while a friend of mine, can be the loud yelling type (not a good match) and has flat-out told me he wouldn't let this boy into "his" troop anyway. There's a third troop, but they're pretty inactive these days. I have an email in to our DE to inquire about district and council resources. John, if I don't get a helpful response there, I'll PM you.

Just to briefly address Pete's suggestions, which I appreciate, because I think they're relevant to why this situation is so difficult (at least for me): 1) The mom doesn't tend to want to discuss her son's medical problems. While she acknowledges that he's "quirky," she's quite defensive when the topic is broached by others. I don't think she'd allow for his doctor to address the troop, even just the adults. She wants him to be treated as much as possible like a "typical" kid, all evidence to the contrary, rather than singling him out. I don't know if she's seriously in denial about it all, or if she is just being a naturally protective parent, trying to give her child as "normal" an experience as possible. And, as she doesn't care for camping, has no outdoor skills, and doesn't seem to have any control over her son's behavior, inviting her on the camp outs actually adds a bit to the troop burden (he's worse when she's there). Should we do this anyway? I'm not sure one way or the other. 2) I've looked at the ADHD material put out by national. So have a few other adults in the troop, notably the two committee members who are licensed to teach special ed (one wants the boy gone, the other doesn't). It is solid. But I can't force others to look at it, or take it seriously. I've asked the CC to dedicate a leader meeting to the supplemental training more than once. No dice. Some of the adult leaders really do not have the experience to deal with the situation - and maybe some don't want to, either. I am at a loss for how to overcome that attitude?!

We did this too with a couple of boys. First, you need to find out from the boys whether or not they are interested in earning AoL. Keep in mind that they don't have to, and that they may have more fun just being cub scouts for however long without the pressure. We had one boy who elected to go this route and that was ok. Supposing that the boys really want to earn AoL, they can do several items on their own. For example, the Fitness and Citizen pins can be done almost entirely at home. The parts that require den involvement (flag display #3, tell the den about good turn #8) are things that could be easily incorporated into a den meeting anyway, and offer great opportunities for all your boys to "refresh" their memories and help teach your new boys too. They can do the faith requirement for Webelos on their own too. The Readyman and Outdoorsman pins include some items that can be done at home, but some that require specific knowledge that a lot of parents don't have. You could re-do some of these in your upcoming den meetings (esp. if you have a webelos camp out or day hike coming up). Or, if you have some troops in the area, ask to spend a day or a weekend camping with them, with some of these specific items included. Most troops will be happy to oblige if they know in advance what you want/need. You could also ask troop leaders if they might be willing to invite your new boys to a regular troop meeting where they have some older boy scouts teach a skill or two to those new boys. As for the other activity pin requirements, here are some that are fairly easy to do on one's own: From the "Mental Skills group" Scholar, Artist, Traveler. From the "Technology group" handyman (and craftsman, if a parent has the appropriate tools). From the "Community group" Family Member. From the "Physical Skills group" Sportsman (if they are playing any team sports this fall especially) and Aquanaut (if they're already reasonably proficient swimmers and you have access to a pool in the area). Let them know what the requirements are, and ask them to pick which badges they want to work on. The one area where the new boys will really need your help if they are to earn AoL is in making sure they have opportunities to visit troop meetings and boy scout-oriented outdoor activities, and to participate in a webelos camp out or day hike. These, they absolutely cannot do on their own. But I would think that you'd be doing these with your other 12 "experienced" webelos scouts anyway, so it shouldn't present too much of a problem. Good luck, and have fun with it!

Sorry in advance for the long post to follow - I'm trying to work out a situation though, and would appreciate your thoughtful feedback. We have a scout in our troop with some serious emotional disabilities. These include difficulty picking up on social cues, tendency to use inappropriate language and pursue topics of conversation that are just better left alone, impulse control, and sometimes anger management issues. The scout is also severely ADHD and while he's on medication, apparently he does not respond well to some of the more common treatment regimens. At school in the past he has had an adult aide assigned to him at all times, though my understanding is that this is no longer the case and he now is mainstreamed most of the time (in fact, he's a couple of grades ahead in math). He's also extremely bright, loves to talk, and finds politics and religion to be fascinating subjects. He's particularly fascinated by the Middle East, as he is a Muslim with family from that part of the world. Unfortunately this sometimes leads to some rather volatile avenues of conversation with other boys (and occasionally, adults too), who do not tend to have a lot of understanding of that part of the world. In the past he has had some physical altercations with other boys and is not well liked by pretty much any of the youth in the troop. His mom is a single parent who has kept him in scouting so he'd have some strong, good, male role models in his life. She recognizes what scouting has done/does for her son, but she's not terribly available to participate directly, and honestly her son is better behaved when she's not around. He tends to walk all over her and she allows for it. I've known this boy, mainly through scouting, since he was in 1st grade, when he joined as a Tiger cub. I've seen him grow and gain more control over himself each year, although I also recognize he's a real handful. As a caveat, I don't know him any better than I know most other boys/families in scouting - but I see that this is about the only consistent and positive interaction he's had with other kids over the years (he's been kicked out of practically everything else at other times, due to behavioral problems). I'm posting all of this because I want your input. This boy has been with the troop for about 1 1/2 years. He has gone to summer camp twice now. Last summer I was there for part of the week with them, and while he was a bit of a challenge, I didn't see him acting out any worse than some of our other "difficult" boys, who don't even have the medical problems that this kid does. This summer I was not there, and the trip was a long one (10 days total). This boy apparently got on everyone's nerves and there is now talk among the adults of asking him to leave the troop before we start up again in a couple of weeks this fall. I'm really divided on this. On one hand, the fact that he benefits from scouting is undeniable. And there's a strong case to make for scouting not being just for the "easy" or "good" kids, but for all kids. I fear that what's happening here is that people just don't want to deal with him, and this talk about kicking him out is just taking the easy road. Not very scout-like, in my book. Also I don't think this issue has been dealt with head-on by the SM, CC, and parent. There hasn't been enough (in my view) open dialog about the difficulties this boy's behavior tends to cause, or about how best to handle him. But I can't force this to occur, as I'm neither the SM nor the CC. On the other hand, I respect (most of) the people who are voicing a desire to see him gone. They're tired of dealing with him, and his mom doesn't seem to be able to exert more control so just asking her to attend isn't that useful. On longer trips, this boy really requires supervision of two adults at all times (keeping 2-deep leadership in mind). Even on shorter weekend camp outs, he annoys the other boys and sometimes adults. None of the boys want him in their patrol. Occasionally he is actually a safety problem, due to the impulse control issues. Several adults have said that they just don't feel equipped to deal with him. We don't want to exhaust our volunteers either. I'm pretty sure this is a topic that will come up at our next committee meeting in a couple of weeks. I'd really appreciate your constructive thoughts on how to approach the situation, and on what your feelings would be as the on-the-ground volunteers who have to actually deal with a boy like this one. Where's the threshold for you?

Nah pack, it's often *worse* than the kids. Can't tell you the number of times I've been tempted to ask some blathering idiot adult whether their mother would be pleased to see them acting that way. Except, it isn't terribly tactful.

Expulsion does seem rather harsh to me, unless there are additional issues/circumstances that maybe aren't known to the original poster. However, as a parent of a younger scout, I'd be extremely upset to hear it if he were NOT removed from the camp and suspended from the troop. These sorts of things get around among the boys, and regardless of what might be said privately, if there is no clear signal then the message the other kids get is that it is "ok" because, well, "Jimmy" did it and "nothing" happened to him. That's not what I want my child to learn from his camp/troop experience. I also don't feel ADHD is an acceptable excuse for breaking the law. Yes, it makes matters more difficult for the boy, but let's be honest - if somewhere down the road this young man fails to control his impulses and engages in felonious behavior as an adult, the fact that he has ADHD is not going to excuse him. Better he learn that now, hard as it may be. And perhaps, better his family realizes that his condition maybe is not sufficiently under control and that he needs additional help in managing it so as to have a stronger chance at leading a happy life. As someone who has worked on staff in various capacities at other camps too - at the very least, I'd have fired any person, youth or adult, who was working for me and who was found to have (or admitted to having) drugs at camp. And as anyone who has ever worked at camp knows, there isn't really much "personal time" at camp. You want free time? That's what your day off is for. Most camp contracts include language specifying that you are at least on call, if not on duty, at all hours.

In connection with a piece about the Republican party platform (not about Craig), Newsweek contributor Anna Quindlen recently wrote the following: "If you run on family values, your values and your family will be subject to scrutiny. Be careful what you wish for: it might get you." I'd have to say that seems to be happening a lot lately, and the Craig story is just one more example.

Not to hijack this thread - I won't respond to this issue again here. If someone wants to further discuss, they should spin off. But: jambo, excuse me? If you are suggesting that a WOMAN cannot or should not be involved as an ASM with a troop, then you are really behind in terms of national BSA policy. And if you are aware of that policy and just disagree, I suggest you look around at troops beyond, perhaps, your own. There are darn few troops I know of that do NOT have women in leadership and in many, if it weren't for those women, there would not be any troop at all. And don't tell me women can't be good adult leaders of young men, or that women don't have the same outdoor skills. I've seen plenty of amazingly skilled women do both. And I've also seen plenty of guys do both poorly. This isn't a gender-based issue. It is an issue of who has the skill, the time, and the willingness to serve our youth. We simply haven't got the luxury of telling slightly more than half the population that they "can't" for no good reason.

LOL, we had "that lady" too! Apparently she has relatives in Australia. We found ourselves asking for help in a more targeted and quiet way when she was around, not that it always worked.

I was thinking about this thread the other day. We took my son and a friend of his to an amusement park for the day. The car ride was rather lengthy and I ended up being privy to all sorts of conversational delicacies from the boys in the back seat, most of which I did my best to ignore. The friend (generally a nice kid but with few "rules" in his life) seems to have a desire to label everything as "Mo-Fo" cool/awesome/dumb/ etc.. I found that offensive, particularly since he wasn't relying only on the much abbreviated version I just typed here. After a while I turned around and asked him exactly whose "Mother" was he referring to? Because I didn't suppose he'd talk to his own mom that way? He turned about 10 shades of red, apologized, and watched his language (at least, around me) the rest of the day. If it had been my kid using objectionable language and I hadn't been there, I hope someone else would have called him on it too. But yeah, a written rule book and threats of sending someone home do seem a bit over the top unless there was a lot more to the story.

Geez, I haven't kept a count, but apparently I'm in pretty good company here. I read all the time. For a while I had a hard time keeping up with what my son was reading and at this point I've more or less given up on that! (He has more free time than I do.) The last time I moved, I remember almost regretting my love for books because the heaviest boxes were the book boxes, and there were a lot of them. A few books I've read lately and would recommend: **Orson Scott Card's "Ender" novels (I liked the first one - "Ender's Game" - and the one about Bean's childhood best) **JK Rowling's "Harry Potter" (7th book, but I had to re-read the rest to get back "up to speed") **Morgan Llywelyn "1916" (historical fiction about the Irish rebellion - very depressing but good reading) **Orhan Pamuk's "Snow" and "My Name is Red" (set in Turkey - great reads! This man deserved the nobel prize.) **Khaled Hosseini's "The Kite Runner" (fiction about a boy/family in Afghanistan and in refuge elsewhere, in the 1970s to 1990s) **Hisham Matar's "In the Country of Men" (fictional account of a boy/family in Libya in the 1970s - a really excellent book, IMO, and I liked it better than "The Kite Runner" in terms of the impact of the revolution on people's lives) **Edmund Morris' "Theodore Rex" (biography of Teddy Roosevelt - lots of fun to read) **Tracy Campbell's "Deliver the Vote" (history of election fraud - don't assume it is a new phenomenon!) **Sara Gruen's "Water for Elephants" (fictional account of circus life in the 1920s-30s. A lot of fun, quirky characters to enjoy)

I have to agree with Ed and ScoutNut on this. I've been very involved with scouting since my son joined, first with the pack, then the troop and district. I believe in volunteering in the community in other ways too. But if I were told by a unit leader that I *had* to "volunteer?" I'd probably go find another place to spend some of my "free" time just out of irritation. I'm not fond of adults on power trips, which is what this would signal to me (sorry Chuck - that might not be the case for you, I'm just saying that's my initial reaction to being told I "have to" do much of anything with my spare time).

And before anybody says "well the ones who wouldn't be approved wouldn't want to join..." We had a lady, a single parent, whose son was soooo excited about joining cubs as a Tiger. Nice kid, nice lady. She was eager to sign on as a volunteer. Except she had some felony convictions for a variety of things in her (not so distant) past. She was up front about these, claimed she wanted to start over with her feet on the ground. But when we ran this past council the answer was "no way." Her volunteer app. was denied, and probably rightly so. Now she understood this and found other ways to lend a hand - setting up tables, making decorations for the blue & gold, etc. - but she was not in a position to be an official volunteer. Yet, her boy is still in cub scouts and will be moving along to a troop this year. It has been a stabilizing force in his life (probably hers, too). Do we want to say "sorry, not for you" to a kid like this? I didn't.

>A simple "Scouts in this troop don't use that word" would've been >enough. Yes Aquila, I agree (though I don't know that I'd go so far as to call her a "shrew."). But then, this assumes that the story being told is in fact the full story. I'm curious to know what the ASM in question would say about all of this? I have a 13 year old son. He's a great kid and generally very polite. But occasionally his depiction of events is so very different from my own that I have to wonder if we've been living in alternate universes. This isn't to say he's not telling the truth as he sees it, just that he might be bringing his own issues (raging hormones, whatever) to the situation and things sometimes get blown out of proportion on his end too. I can imagine the same thing happening here. ("Honest mom, ALL I said (remember saying?) was ..." except, this maybe skips over the tone of voice in which it was said, the eye rolling, the stomping, huffing, and general body language that accompanied the (not so?) "innocent" words.) Or, on the other hand, maybe this woman really is a walking disaster. Hard to be sure from just what we've heard. I guess I'm channeling Beavah here, suggesting we first trust the adult leaders to use reasonably good judgment most of the time, especially if there's no prior history to suggest otherwise.

From what you've posted, it was not well handled. That applies both to the ASM (again, from what you've posted) and to the older boys. Is this ASM someone who has camped with the troop before and is well known? Or was this her first trip with the troop? In the former case, assuming that she isn't generally known for being unreasonable, then I'd have to wonder what else had already happened that week that put her on her last nerve with these boys. Perhaps they'd been using progressively worse language all week long to test boundaries, for example. (I'm not saying that happened, just thinking of a situation that might have occurred to illustrate that you may, or may not, be getting the full story). If she is new to the troop and/or has a reputation for over reacting, then I think it might be good to ask whether she has gone through training, what sort of experience she has with youth, and how better to put her desire to volunteer to good use. Perhaps she is a mom to a younger boy and isn't used to dealing with older teens. Great, get her involved working with those younger guys where she may be more comfortable. This is ultimately something to have a polite conversation with the SM and CC about though. At the end of the day it sounds like the older boys in question could have comported themselves differently too. "Sucks" is a word that offends many people because of what it implies (sucks what?), and certainly it wouldn't hurt for them to be more aware of the way they come across to others. There's nothing wrong with making sure they realize that speaking like that in the "adult" world is generally inappropriate, and that if they want to be treated more like adults - isn't that something most older teens want? -, then they have to act the part. (though personally, I wouldn't have handled it the way this ASM apparently did) And at ages 15-17 these boys should also be old enough to understand that respect is, indeed, a two way street. While the ASM may have missed her own opportunity to build respect in the boys' eyes (and maybe she realizes this now), that doesn't give them a right to disrespect her, either. That's not leadership and that's not character. Challenge them to think about the outcome they want and to take a course that's more likely to achieve it than just saying they won't go if "that woman" is on a camp out in the future.

I'll second (third?) what John and uz2bnowl have said. This is pretty normal (about drove me crazy, so I can sympathize - but lots of us do go through it and it works out in the end). Your troop guide is a good person to talk with; they can probably give you some guidance about whether you are heading in the right direction with your ideas for your ticket. But definitely don't panic - you've got some time yet, before you need to have your ticket in working order and you'll get some input as your second weekend approaches.