Kudu

And there aren't any changes coming in 2009 to the actual program? For youth? Only if the dangly things are not designed to attract Den Leaders in to teach fuzzy-bunny manager theory to Patrol Leaders and SPLs Kudu

CalicoPenn writes: The BSA has provided everyone, in various publications, what the performance metrics for a POR should be - use them - they've worked for generations. It only seems like generations. PORs are just cheap manager theory, they are not rooted in the traditions of Scouting. What we now call a "Position of Responsibility" (POR) was the first wave of attack on the Patrol Method after the "Father of the BSA Patrol Method" (Green Bar Bill) retired in 1965. Before then Patrol Leader or Senior Patrol Leader was a significant call to service without the thought of compensation or length of service, similar to the open-ended commitment rendered by adults who volunteer in the BSA. This is what Baden-Powell called "Service for Others" or "Practical Christianity." Service is sacred in Traditional Scouting, given without thought for compensation as in the example of the "Unknown Scout" in 1909. That was the "Spirit of Scouting." PORs teach Scouts to put a price on their Service for Others, to count months of Service as commodities to be "gamed" or negotiated to their best advantage in the purchase of Advancement from adults. (The same is true for the equally despicable practice of counting Service Project hours for advancement). What we should hold "accountable" is the 1972 invention of Leadership Development: There are no bad junior managers, there are only bad theories of Scouting. Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

In 1972 "Leadership Development" was introduced as a "Method of Scouting" equal to the other Methods. The basic idea is that if you dumb the Patrol Method down enough, then you can use Patrols as little classrooms to teach "servant leadership." Before 1972, the BSA defined a "Real Patrol" as one held Patrol Meetings without adult supervision, to plan Hikes without adult supervision, on which they worked on Advancement without adult supervision, all with the goal to Camp overnight without adult supervision. Baden-Powell's Patrols had many additional adult responsibilities, with the additional standard that Patrols camp at least 300 feet apart on Troop Campouts. The first thing that these "leadership" gurus did in 1972 was kill "Patrol Leader Training" based on hiking and camping leadership and offer in its place generic "Junior Leader Training." The bread and butter of servant leadership is that the two greatest minds in the history of Scouting (Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill) are "old-fashioned" (they dug trenches around their tents, didn't they?) and therefore their training techniques must be replaced with the theory of leadership "experts." My problem with servant leadership is that its gurus seldom talk about objective accomplishments in terms that the followers of B-P and Green Bar Bill can understand. Except for Stosh: I never hear how training Patrol Leaders how to be servant leaders increased the distance between Patrols on Troop campouts from 10 feet to 50 or 100 feet. I never hear how training Patrol Leaders how to be servant leaders increased the distance a Patrol was allowed to hike without adult supervision on a Troop Campout. I never hear how training Patrol Leaders how to servant leaders increased a Troop's desire to go to summer camps with Patrol Cooking. Kudu

Bob White writes: First: There is no such rule in scouting nor is this "standard" taught in any current BSA program. It is a personal preference of a poster from a time long past. 300 feet is Baden-Powell's standard. When someone characterizes as "old fashioned" what Baden-Powell or "Green Bar Bill" have to say about the Patrol Method, what they are really saying is that teaching boys how to be One Minute Managers does not help them run what the BSA defined as a "Real Patrol." Good luck finding a variety of camp locations where that is always possible. Some parts of the country may still have aenough wilderness area available but in most places you will not have the luxury of that much space especially if you have more than just a few patrols. The only place I have not been able to do that is on small islands and at Camporees in parks. Most Scout Camps have plenty of room. All of the National Forests in which I have camped do not have any such rules except in fee-based established campground areas. This "practicality" argument should be familiar to anyone who can remember all the excuses Wood Badgers came up with for why it was absolutely impossible for the BSA to make an outdoor uniform. Until the Switchbacks Notice that they never, ever, say anything like "The Troop that I serve has found that 30 feet or 100 feet is the maximum practical distance between Patrols for the following reasons." Or, "We found that when our Patrols camped more than 50 feet apart the following things happened." The reason is that One Minute Managers are not curious about the Patrol Method beyond what business management gurus have to say about "leadership." When you actually separate the Patrols, you learn a whole lot about leadership in a hurry. If you share your experiences with others, the reasons for failure become interesting topics of discussion: problems to be solved. People who use Scouting as an excuse to teach manager theory do not want that to happen. Its Me writes: "Without a written program in place that better emphasizes the patrol method I couldn't convince parents that some concept from older scout programs and presented by some guy on the Internet is the way to go." This guy on the Internet says stick with the BSA program but separate your Patrols. There is no rule against it. Start with 30 feet and see what happens. If you like what camping 30 feet apart does for your Patrols after six months or a year, then try the "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" course after PLC Meetings, with the goal of training Patrol Leaders how lead Patrol Meetings to plan a Patrol Hike on a Troop Campout. If you are not comfortable with a Patrol hiking to a spot for lunch in a Scout Camp without adult supervision, then have a couple adults "shadow" the best Patrol from a distance with the STRICT rule that Scouts and adults are not to interact in any way what-so-ever except in an emergency. Then try the second part of the course (the Patrol overnight) on a Troop campout with an adult shadow party as above. Back when all BSA handbooks insisted that Scoutmasters get their Patrols out hiking and camping without adult supervision, BSA training was about leadership based on practical outdoor skills, not One Minute Manager theory. The BSA Guide to Safe Scouting still allows adult-free Patrol Camping, but we no longer provide the correct training to do so. So be cautious, don't go beyond the comfort level of your trained Scouters, but move slowly and deliberately toward truly functional, independent Patrols. ozemu writes: 300 foot rule. It works I think. If the Patrols are to learn within a comfort zone the parents, PL's and Scouts will need the adults along to teach sometimes and to govern at others. So on Troop camps I would get the PL's together. We would walk over the available ground and decide where we would all put our Patrols. The adults were central'ish' and teh most capable Patrols were furthest away. Sometimes one would be out of sight and another would be a basketball length away from me. All depends on the abilities. That is some really great advice. Its nice to see that the real Patrol Method works in similar ways all over the world. Kudu

ozemu writes: Is there some confusion in BSA about the Patrol Method ... and the Troop Method? "Troop Method" is a derisive term used to characterize units that do not use the Patrol Method. Some would say that this is because such Troops do not apply what they learned in training. We "Traditionalists" maintain that the "Troop Method" is the natural result of our emphasis on the Scouts' future business resumes: Eagle Merit Badge Factory summer camp with summer school cafeterias rather than Patrol Cooking; and BSA training based on "Leadership Development" rather than skills that get the Patrols camping 300 feet apart. Bob White writes: First, let's remember that Leadership Development Method and the Patrol Method are two separate but related methods used as tools to achieve the aims of scouting. Well that is my central point: The Patrol Method is usually described in Leadership Development terms, Patrol Leader as a "leadership opportunity" for instance. The Patrol Method session in Scoutmaster Specific Training is only a description of leadership styles, and never uses the term "Patrol" separately from the term "Troop." Bob White writes: Wood shaft golf clubs were used by everyone because at the time that was the best technology there was. But times changed and I doubt anyone will argue that todays technology gives the golfer a greater advanctage than the old one shafts. The analogy is not valid because golf clubs today are used for the same thing as golf clubs 40 years ago: to drive a ball down a fairway. The purpose of Leadership Development now is to teach Scouts "how to be a leader." 40 years ago the purpose of Patrol Leader Training was to teach Patrol Leaders how to use Patrol Meetings away from the Troop to plan Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights away from the Troop. It also taught Patrol Leaders how to teach and sign off on Advancement away from the Troop. A better analogy would be to Little League Baseball. Boys join Little League mostly to bat, run bases and catch. If they are really lucky their team has a great pitcher. If Little League had embraced Leadership Development in 1972 in the same way as the BSA did that year, then the first thing to have gone would have been batting, catching, and special pitching practice: You swing at a wiffle ball with a hollow plastic bat once, get "signed off" for that skill, and advance to Leadership Development. Training would no longer develop the practical skills that boys actually join Little League to do, but teach them "how to be a leader." Practice would be all about blindfolded "Team-Building Exercises" and sitting around in a circle to introduce your potato. Pitchers would have exactly the same "Team-Building" training as everyone else because the popularity contest held before every game gives every boy the same "leadership opportunity" to be pitcher. 40 years later the idea of throwing dangerous objects at other boys and swinging wooden clubs around would be derided as hopeless old-fashioned. Injury statistics from the 20th century would be held up as proof that pitching and hitting in litigious 2008 American culture is impossible. What would the parents think if you suggested something as dangerous as that? If Little League had a monopoly on baseball, then nobody would know how to actually play baseball, just as few Boy Scout Patrols know how to camp 300 feet apart now. Boys would make fun of Little Leaguers because baseball sucks. Some Beaver wrote: Being an effective leader has very little to do with being an effective patrol leader. Once the boy turns 18, there's not going to be much demand for one's patrol leader skills. Yeah, Leadership Development is good for you like algebra. Kudu

gwd-scouter writes: So, in the end, after some self-examination, I can say that these past six months have not been any fun. It has been work and I'm disappointed because we had been progressing so well toward our goal of a boy-led Troop. Guess I haven't done a very good job for the past two years with these guys in instilling the value of Trustworthiness and following through on a commitment. It is not your fault, nor the Scouts' fault either. This is not a "values" issue. The original purpose of SPL was to chair PLC meetings, and then help coordinate the Patrols according to the Patrol Leaders' plans. That is why in Green Bar Bill's Traditional BSA Patrol Method, the Patrol Leaders select the SPL! In Baden-Powell's Patrol System the SPL is optional. So you could just take a break from the Troop Method and let your Patrol Leaders run things for a while. One possibility is to have the Patrols to take turns as "Service Patrol" (setting up Troop equipment, opening and closing the meeting, and then putting things away); and "Program Patrol" (setting up the program materials, coming up with the game, providing entertainment, and assisting guests) with the Patrol Leader of the Program Patrol serving as SPL. Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

jblake47 writes: What would you like to see included in PL specific training? To teach Patrol Leaders the nuts and bolts of run their own Patrol Meetings, Patrol Hikes, Patrol Campouts, and Patrol Advancement. Who could top William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's Patrol Leader Specific training course? For those who do not follow URLs, here is an outline of the first half of the course (up to the Patrol Hike) with most of details removed: INTENSIVE TRAINING IN THE GREEN BAR PATROL: PART I FIRST TRAINING MEETING THEME: Patrol Spirit and Patrol Organization Preliminary Reading Assignments: (Older Scoutmaster and Patrol Leader Handbooks contained three to five times more information, so those original chapter titles have been retained to give an idea of what was covered. Pages where similar topic is mentioned in the current editions appears in parentheses.) For Scoutmaster and adult leaders: Scoutmaster Handbook: Why the Patrol Method?: (Pages 11-17) Setting Up the Patrol Method: (Pages 19-22) Other Leaders & Helpers: (Pages 156-157, 165-170) For Patrol Leaders: Patrol Leader Handbook Patrol Spirit: (Pages 23-32) Patrol Organization: (Pages 115-121) The Boys in the Patrol: (Replaced with "Leadership Skills," Pages 89-112) NEEDED MATERIAL: Paper and pencils. Copy of Patrol Record Book. One three-foot length of rope for each participant. Several short lengths of rope. String. PROGRAM: (a) Simple Opening Ceremony: (b) Purpose of Training and Establishing Patrol: © Make Notebooks: (d) Discussion of Patrol Name: (e) Call and Yell Contest: (f) Patrol Flag Contest: (g) Instruction Games: (h) Election of Members: (i) Work Session: Treasurer, Scribe, Hikemaster (working out a route to a camp site); Grubmaster (making up a Patrol menu); Cheermaster . (j) Handicraft Project: (k) Recreational Games: (l) Simple Closing Ceremony: Singing of Taps After Meeting: Before dismissing the Training Patrol, give a short summary of the ground covered. Tell the leaders to make use of the material in their next Patrol meetings, and ask each Patrol Leader to make a short talk on how the material worked out at next training meeting. SECOND TRAINING MEETING THEME: Patrol Meetings Preliminary Reading Assignments: For Scoutmaster and adult leaders: Scoutmaster Handbook: The Working of the Patrol Method: (Pages 12-22; 33-67) The Patrol Carries On; Let Them Lead; Are the Patrols Patrols? For Patrol Leaders: Patrol Leader Handbook Patrol Meetings*: (Pages 59-66) *(Old HPL, 77-100) NEEDED MATERIAL: Paper and pencils. Copy of Patrol Record Book. Materials for neckerchief slides. Material as required for games selected. PROGRAM: (a) Opening Ceremony: (b) Business Period: Treasurer Scribe Following this, the different Patrol jobs are rotated to next boys in line, as decided at First Training Meeting (h). Brief report from each Patrol Leader of his use of items learned at last training meeting in his Patrol. © Scoutcraft Instruction: (d) Work Period: (e) Scoutcraft Games: (f) Planning: (g) Recreation: (h) Closing Ceremony: THIRD TRAINING MEETING THEME: Patrol Hikes Preliminary Reading Assignments: For Scoutmaster and adult leaders: Scoutmaster Handbook: Working Patrol Method: (Same as "2nd Meeting") The Troop Goes Hiking*: (Pages 34-44) For Patrol Leaders: Patrol Leader Handbook Patrol Hikes: (Pages 73-86) NEEDED MATERIAL: Paper and Pencils. Patrol Record Book. Tin cans, pieces of wire, hammer, large nail, copper rivets. Map. Hiking equipment for demonstration. PROGRAM: (a) Opening Ceremony: (b) Business Period: © Hike Instruction: Short discussion on "Patrol Hikes," including leadership requirements, hiking technique, based upon Hiking Chapter in the Scout Handbook. Explain difference between "Sandwich Hikes" (a hike on which you don't want to be tied down by fire making and cooking), and "Chop Hikes," (a hike where fire building and/or cooking have a prominent place in the program), and announce that forthcoming Leaders' Hike will be a Chop Hike. If possible, have a demonstration of hiking equipment. (d) Hike Planning: Divide the Patrol up into four groups, and give each group the responsibility for developing the details of one of the following items in preparation for the hike. 1. Route: (Hikemaster in charge). Plan an appropriate route on a map of the local territory. 2. Equipment: (Quartermaster in charge). Prepare list of essential equipment to take along. 3. Commissary: (Grubmaster in charge). Suggest menu and food list. 4. Activities: (Assistant Patrol Leader in charge). Kind of hike, activities on out-trip, at the hike destination and on the return journey. After the plans have been completed, they are discussed by the whole Patrol, until final adoption. Distribute leadership, decide upon meeting place and time, and equipment and grub to be brought by each Scout. (e) Instruction Game: (f) Work Period: (g) Recreation: 1. Games: 2. Singing: (h) Closing Ceremony: Use closing ceremony voted most popular at Second Training Meeting. GREEN BAR TRAINING HIKE NEEDED MATERIAL: As decided on at Third Training Meeting. PROGRAM: (a) Assembly: Quartermaster and Grubmaster check equipment and grub to insure that everything is in readiness. (b) Outbound Journey: 1. Hiking Technique: Follow suggestions in the Scout Handbook in regard to proper methods of hiking, and correct Patrol hike formation on highways. 2. Activities: Start activities as soon as possible --whether observation games, nature study or whatever was decided at Training Meeting. Give the different boys a chance to lead the Patrol from time to time. © At Destination: Have an Assistant Scoutmaster or a junior Assistant put on a quick demonstration of the subject of the hike, then get the boys to work on axemanship, fire-building, cooking--or mapping or signaling--according to the program for the day. Cooking should be done on a Patrol basis. Also run a couple of Instruction Games, such as Signal Relay, the Leading Packsack, String Burning Height Judging, Leaf Matching Rest Period Recreation Games: One or two of the following: Capture the Flag, Skin the Snake, Antelope Border Scouting, Clean-up. (d) Return Journey: Do not attempt any specially planned activity during this, although a game such as "Near and Far" may be tried. Make use of the songs rehearsed during training meeting. Dismiss at appropriate spot. For complete course see: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

Bob White writes: I can teach you how to tie your shoes without ever using the words shoe. Or the word "shoelaces" either! If the BSA did teach the Shoe Method, the session would be about the four leadership styles of shoe wearers. Wood Badgers would insist that shoelaces are old fashioned and dangerous, and that the purpose of teaching you how tie your shoes is NOT for tying shoelaces, and it never has been!" Kudu

Stosh, Yes, Scouts can and will develop and grow faster when their Patrol is autonomous! But how to get there? As in all Scouting, the things we do best are the things we are trained to do, and training can only serve how "what we do" is defined. jblake47 writes: Until one begins the process of discussing the autonomy of the patrol, there's not much to discuss because the reason the patrols break out into these 8 member groups is to independently run their leadership, team work, and program development processes on their own. Before "Leadership Development" was introduced in 1972, the reason that Patrols broke out into these eight member groups was to independently run their own Patrol Meetings, Patrol Hikes, Patrol Campouts, and Patrol Advancement. For Patrols to be autonomous again, the Patrol Method needs its own training program: a "Patrol Leader Specific" training course such as "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" which served Patrol Leaders for 30 years. See: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm Patrol Leader Specific should be taken AFTER generic Leadership Development courses, to avoid the same Wood Badge-lite takeover of Scoutmaster Specific's Patrol Method session. Maybe the 300 foot distance needs to be more than just physical. Can a SM emotionally let a patrol run independently? or does s/he have to constantly hover over their progress to make sure it's done "right". From the 300 foot distance everything else follows. Scoutmasters would rightfully hover over such Patrols at first because so far in the 21st century we only teach Patrol Leaders "how to be a leader," not how to actually lead a Patrol in the woods. The nice thing about 300 feet is that adults must put some real effort into hovering. This would motivate us to make our job easier by teaching Patrol Leaders the nuts and bolts of how to camp independently at Troop Campouts. Perhaps such authentic "Baden-Powell Patrol Camping" could count 10 points toward "Quality Unit" with random surprise inspections that award 1 point for every 30 feet apart a unit's Patrols are camped! Kudu

You wrote "I have yet to understand your attitude toward it." If you actually read and tried "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol," how can you possibly wonder? Kudu

emb021 writes: There is also the Team Development Model and Team Leadership Model, which is about teams, which a patrol is. If the only tool you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail. Using well known leadership development models is not some aberation or nullifys patrols and patrol leadership. Leadership Development does indeed nullify Patrols and Patrol Leadership because its purpose is to teach generic skills. The Patrol exists only to teach "Leadership Development," rather than Leadership Development serving only to get the Patrol out hiking and camping on its own (if only in the context of monthly Troop campouts at Boy Scout camps). SL has been around for a long time, and is well used and respected, both by corporate group and non-profit groups. I have yet to understand your attitude toward it. Perhaps you are perplexed because you are not as interested in the history of Patrol Leader Training as you are in the history of corporate and non-profit team building. "Leadership Development" was not introduced as a "Method of Scouting" until 1972. Before then the BSA defined "A Real Patrol" as one that hiked (and eventually camped) on its own, under the sole supervision of a Patrol Leader: "As soon as you are able you will want to take your boys on Patrol Hikes. You want your Patrol to be a real one, and only a hiking Patrol is a real Patrol" (BSA Handbook for Patrol Leaders, Chapter 7). "Patrols are ready to go hiking and camping on their own just as soon as the Patrol Leader has been trained, and the Scouts have learned to take care of themselves....It should be your goal to get your Patrol Leaders qualified for hike and camp leadership at an early stage" BSA Handbook for Scoutmasters (fourth edition), page 118-119). For 30 years "Patrol Leader Training" was designed to achieve that end, see: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm Kudu

When Wood Badge Staffers talk about the "Patrol Method" as taught in the "Leader Specific" course, what do they mean? I volunteered to staff the "Working With Boy Leaders / The Patrol Method" session to find out. In the session outline I circled the words "leadership," "leader," "lead," and "led," and discovered that they occur 50 times in this 25 minute session. That is once every 30 seconds! How many times is the term "Patrol Leader" mentioned in the session that explains the "Patrol Method" to new Scout Leaders? Zero (0). How can we explain the "Patrol Method" without discussing what a Patrol Leader does? Likewise the word "Troop" is used 35 times, but the word "Patrol" only 13 times. In 10 of the 13 times it is used, the term "Patrol" occurs in the same sentence as "Troop" as synonyms to explain some abstract manager skill, as in "That growth will be reflected in patrols and a troop that are developing into more productive teams." The term "Patrol" occurs without the term "Troop" only three (3) times: Twice to mean a group of adults sitting around a table, and once to illustrate the "directing" manager style of a Scoutmaster "Telling Scouts, 'Have the members of your patrol use buckets of water to put out the campfire'..." Why do One Minute Mangers insist on leaving the Patrol Leader out of the Patrol Method? Shouldn't a cub-style Scoutmaster be "telling" the SPL or Patrol Leader to use buckets of water to put out the campfire? Wood Badge Staffers always tell us that Wood Badge is all about "leadership" as if it were self-evident that only ONE of the Eight Methods of Scouting deserves SIX (6) days of hanging out with Den Leaders. Supposedly the Patrol Method is explained in Leader Specific Training, but just as Wood Badge reduces manager skills down to the Least Common Denominator for adults, Leader Specific Training dumbs the Patrol Method down to the same Least Common Denominator for Scouts, where the manager skills for a Patrol Leader are the same as the manager skills for the Troop Librarian. This is why they are careful to use the term "boy leader" rather than "Patrol Leader" when "explaining" the "Patrol Method." Surprisingly the term "Patrol Method" appears only at the very beginning of the session, in the newest version of the fake Baden-Powell quote: "The patrol method is not a way to operate a Boy Scout troop, it is the only way" (the previous fake version was "The patrol method is not A METHOD to operate a Boy Scout troop, it is the ONLY METHOD"). I guess some manager expert did not like the idea that the Patrol Method is the ONLY Method of Scouting! Perhaps the next version of the fake Baden-Powell quote will read: "The Leadership Development Method is not A METHOD to operate a Boy Scout Troop, it is the ONLY METHOD!" Because as far as I can see, Leadership Development is the only method that the Wood Badge types allow. Kudu

SR540Beaver writes: I hate to disappoint you, but the patrol method is alive and well in my neck of the woods just as WB is. emb021 writes: Likewise. Simply put, Wood Badge is the Uniform Police of Leadership Development. The purpose of Leadership Development is not to teach practical leadership skills so that a Patrol Leader can better take his Patrol out on an adult-free Patrol Hike or a Patrol Campout (even 300 feet away at a Boy Scout camp) as was the purpose of "Patrol Leader Training" before "Leadership Development" was invented in 1972. The purpose of Leadership Development is to reduce Scouting down to the Least Common Denominator so that "Patrols" are nothing more than little manager theory classrooms. I never hear of Wood Badge Staffers bragging about a real-world test of manager theory that involves Patrols camping 300 feet from each other as Baden-Powell suggested (and is now common in NYLT courses in Councils where the "old boy" circle thrown out of Wood Badge has moved to NYLT). The new Wood Badge is all about insisting that any such classic definition of the Patrol Method is "old fashioned" in the "21st century" where Scoutmasters are mixed in with Den Leaders. The sounds "pa-'trol" "'me-thod" may come out of your mouths, but Wood Badge uses the Patrol Method in the same way that termites use the Wood Frame Construction Method. emb021 writes: Most scout leaders would have no idea what you mean by "One Minute Managers", either. Sounds like you are confusing Situational Leadership, which is a well known and well used concept in leadership development for several decades, with the idea of the 'One Minute Manager'. Converting Boy Scouts into a theory-savvy manager school might be the goal of Wood Badge, but in common usage One Minute Manager is used to hype Situational Leadership, as in: Wood Badge is the highest and most advanced training course offered by the Boy Scouts of America. While it is rich in scouting history and tradition, participants will spend 6 full days and nights learning modern leadership theories from contemporary scholars such as Ken Blanchard (author of the One Minute Manager series of books) Or: Situational Leadership will supersede the leadership skills of Controlling Group Performance and Sharing Leadership in the Twenty-First Century Wood Badge course. Situational Leadership was first introduced in 1985 as a management concept in the popular One Minute Manager series of books by Kenneth Blanchard. Therefore when I use "One Minute Manager" as shorthand for Wood Badge as manager school, anyone who has heard of the new "Situational Leadership as now utilized by over half of the Fortune 500 Companies" Wood Badge understands exactly what I mean. Getting back to the topic, I wonder if the "Situational Leadership" purists have taken a page from China and plan to dilute the "old boy" Patrol Method culture that works around the edges of the NYLT course in some Councils by using the lure of Wood Badge Beads to flood the course with Den Leaders, just as China has destroyed Tibetan culture by offering incentives that flood Tibet with ethnic Chinese? Kudu

I staff my share of training courses including IOLS (past course director), and Scoutmaster Specific (now for the first time in ten years). What exactly do I hope to accomplish? To kick you One Minute Managers out of the Boy Scout division and bring back the Patrol Method. Kudu

In some Councils the "old boys network" (that once kept alive the living memory of Traditional Patrol Method standards) moved to NYLT after the One Minute Mangers kicked them out of Wood Badge. They keep the Patrol Method alive (outside of the course content) by scattering the NYLT Patrols around the camp (always at least 300 feet apart), and forcing the participants to figure things out for themselves as in the "old" Wood Badge. Does anyone know the actual mechanics of the 2009 NYLT policy that will allow NYLT ASM's to receive a third Wood Badge Bead, and NYLT Course Directors to receive a forth Bead? Specifically I wonder if the One Minute Managers' goal is to drive out the "old boys network" with their unofficial use of the Traditional Patrol Method in some Councils, and with the offer of Beads tempt Den Mommies to Staff NYLT so they can dumb it down to the Wood Badge level. Kudu

Avery, The guy who invented Scouting (Lord Robert Baden-Powell) did like chapel either. He wrote that he only went there when he could not to get to his "usual church" (the jungle). Observing nature was religion enough for him. His famous father (Rev. Baden Powell) wrote a book called The Order of Nature. It contends that nature is the source of all science and of all religion and that their common root is the human experience of awe and wonder. Rev. Powell was the first English cleric to declare in favor of Darwin, and Darwin admired Powell's writings as he indicated very clearly in his introduction to the third edition of The Origin of Species. The Oder of Nature examined the role of religion in the age of evolution. Powell traces the history of science and philosophy from alchemy and astrology to Darwin. He wrote that as science explained more and more of the mysteries of life, belief in "miracles" and the supernatural became less important and the importance of Christianity was in its moral truth and guide to moral action. He was charged with heresy and died before his trial. His son (the inventor of Scouting) grew up hearing members of the clergy condemn his father. When he was a year younger than you are now one prominent clergyman crowed over his father's death as God's decision to put Rev. Powell on trial for heresy Himself and judge him unfit for eternal life. Despite his age, Baden-Powell understood the attack and grew up with a distrust of clergymen and theology which he would never lose. When he invented Scouting he included "Duty to God" in the Scout Promise. Scouting is a Game, and Duty to God was a practical application of his father's controversial book The Order of Nature. Scoutcraft, a Scout's interaction with nature was called "The Religion of the Deep Woods." These badges (Pioneer, Woodcraftsmen, etc.) were all worn on the right side of a Scout's uniform. Public Service was called "Practical Christianity" and these badges (First Aid, Fire Prevention, etc.) were all worn on the left side of a Scout's Uniform. Most religions have some version of these two traditions: 1) Inward introspection associated with nature (Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness for instance), and 2) Good works for the betterment of society. Likewise, in the first act of all of Shakespeare's comedies the characters come into conflict with society, in the second act they always retreat to the wilderness where the conflicts are resolved (often through supernatural forces), and in the third act they return to become productive members of society. The religious beliefs of Baden-Powell and his father have been called "Pantheism." Over the years eight of my Scouts (including four Senior Patrol Leaders) have announced that they are atheists. When they ask for a Scoutmaster Conference I ask them to memorize what Carl Sagan said was Einstein's summary of Spinoza's Pantheist definition of God as "the sum total of all the natural laws in the universe." Pantheism works nicely for young atheists because 1) it does not require a belief in the supernatural, 2) honors awe and wonder (qualities lacking in many "secular humanist" adult atheists and aggressive religious fundamentalists), 3) does not stand in the way of adopting a personal god at a later time, 4) offers the Scout insight into the original meaning of "Duty to God" as part of a game called "Scouting" that any boy can play regardless of his beliefs. During the Scoutmaster Conference I ask them to explain in their own words the "natural laws" governing their experiences on campouts, and I ask about their Service for Others. My goal is not to talk an atheist into believing in God, but to train him to use language that would satisfy an Eagle Board of Review's questions about Duty to God. Our own Troop Boards of Review were never a problem, even when we had four Christian Missionaries (two married couples) on the Committee. Young atheists who stick with Scouting are the ones who are most likely to come back ten years later to visit the Troop as members of the clergy For more about Baden-Powell and "Nature Knowledge," see: http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm Kudu

ManyIrons writes: On one hand, it could help bust the "good ol' boy/gal" rings that the new course rules were supposed to eliminate.... What is the official term for that policy and what is the actual wording? Is there any indication that it will be applied to NYLT? Kudu

Eamonn writes: Many of these games seem to be about in some way blowing up and killing your "Enemy". Scout games have always been about blowing up and killing other Scouts. Human boys enjoyed "killing" each other as "enemies" from the misty dawn of time until the dark hour when feminists were invented. Here are a couple of the typical "violent content" games invented by Baden-Powell (the guy who invented Boy Scouts): LION-HUNTING: "If the hunters fail to come up to him neither wins the game. When they come near to the lair the lion fires at them with his tennis balls (or snowballs, weather permitting), and the moment a hunter is hit he must fall out dead and cannot throw his tennis ball. If the lion gets hit by a hunter's tennis ball he is wounded, and if he gets wounded three times he is killed. SNOW FORT: "The snow fort may be built by one patrol according to their own ideas of fortification, with loop holes, and so on, for looking out. When finished it will be attacked by hostile patrols, using snowballs as ammunition. Every Scout struck by a snowball is counted dead. SIBERIAN MAN HUNT: "A man has escaped through the snow and a patrol follows his tracks, but, when they think they are nearing his hiding place, they advance with great caution because for them one hit from a snowball means death. The escaped person has to be hit three times before he is killed." For the complete texts of winter games written by Baden-Powell, see: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/activities/games WIDE GAMES Baden-Powell's "BOMB-LAYING" is a typical Scouting Wide Game: "Each Scout wears his 'life,' i.e. scarf, tie, or piece of tape, in the back of his belt as a tail, so that it can easily be pulled out.... A Scout is 'killed' when an opponent snatches his 'life' from his belt, and when 'dead' he can take no further part in the game, but must make his way quickly to a definite piece of neutral ground agreed upon before beginning the game... When the cover is good it is often possible to 'kill' a Scout without his noticing it, and when after carefully planting the 'bomb' the owner discovers he is 'dead,' his feelings are better imagined than described...If a Scout who has laid his bomb is caught on the return journey, he can be taken back to the captor's camp and made to remove his bomb, and then 'killed'." B-P's "Bomb Laying" is only one of 84 Boy Scout Wide Games to be found at: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide Many Wide Games have game-extending provisions for returning to a central area to get new "lives" so that a Scout may return to the game to "kill" and/or be "killed" again! For Outdoor Tracking & Stalking skills, see: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/tracking For additional stalking games, see: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/ripley/stalking Be sure to check out additional other politically incorrect Boy Scout Games like "Games for Boy Scouts: Including Selected War Games of the YMCA and the Army and Navy:" http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games Eamonn writes: I can't help thinking that if the argument is about Character? These games fall under the same heading. You must learn how to think more like an American, Eamonn. Dumbing-down the Patrol Method is usually a one-two punch: 1) Replace a physical aspect of Scouting with an abstract concept (In this case "Character"), 2) Play the "feelings" card. Try to work more on the whole weepy thing Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

More official information: http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsasupply/info.aspx?page=bsauniforms

John-in-KC writes: In general, I like to see lots more hours and lots more events than the minimum. When I talk to youth and parents alike I talk about building a lifelong habit of service to others. That was Baden-Powell's intention. For Christian audiences he called Service For Others "Practical Christianity," and used the Buddhist culture of Burma as a prime example. Baden-Powell's Scout Promise has three points, the second of which is "To help other people at all times." It does not read "To help other people six hours with no double-dipping." Counting service hours toward advancement is Fake Scouting. It teaches Scouts to parcel out their Service For Others in exchange for compensation. Counting months of a "Position of Responsibility" toward advancement is also Fake Scouting. Leadership is a form of Service For Others and it should be freely given by Scouts who are truly gifted. These Scouts should be honored, not compensated. Counting hours or months of service is bad Scouting and bad religion. Kudu

We live in a world where one man puts a bomb in his shoe and now millions of people have to remove their shoes to be allowed to fly. Be thankful he didn't hide it in his underpants. Kudu

Thanks By far the "how-to" book with the most explosive impact on the history of Scouting was William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's 1,150 page third edition of the BSA Handbook for Scoutmasters. You can still find used copies of this two-volume masterpiece for less than $10 per volume at AddAll. See: http://tinyurl.com/5sjvz3 To find the correct edition, look for "Volume 1" or "Volume 2" in the description. The 1940s printings of Volume 1 were expanded (page 208 became pages 208i - 208xvi) to include "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol." This position-specific "intensive" Patrol Leader training course (adapted to Baden-Powell's Patrol System) are still used in countries all over the world, from Ireland to Australia. See: http://kudu.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm Kudu

SR540Beaver writes: I hate to be a pessimist, but is this for real or an elaborate hoax? I've searched high and low thru google and the official BSA website and can find nothing regarding this new uniform. If you call ScoutStuff.Org (1-800-323-0736) with questions about the new products as pictured on the flier, these stock numbers do correspond with the descriptions of the new products already on their computers (but not available until August). Kudu

The patch colors are a definite improvement over the red. The placement of the small front "bra-pockets" looks very odd indeed. The well-designed BSA Action Shirt led me to have such high hopes for the Centennial Uniform. The Action Shirt is even over-the-collar Neckerchief friendly. According to ScoutStuff.Org, the new Switchback Pants will come unhemmed. Ugh! General length size ranges with shock cord adjustments would be the way to go with growing boys. I can't say that the Centennial Uniform was worth the ten year fight for an outdoor Uniform. Kudu

http://kudu.net/uniforms/BSA_newuniform.pdf