Kudu

"Nope. That's a propaganda rant from a zealot." Is it too soon to compare us to Hitler?

"A plywood box is not heavy -- it's what you put in it that adds the weight." A plywood box is heavier than no box, or small plastic boxes. Patrol boxes are a standard size, and take up a lot of room, so usually they are filled with ALL of each Patrol's equipment. "A properly-designed patrol kitchen (not chuck) box that contains aluminum pots and modern stoves in place of cast iron is easily packed 300 feet by two scouts." And then everyone discovers that moving Patrol boxes only fifteen (15) feet apart is twenty (20) times easier than packing them 300 feet! Here is a good side by side comparison of "Old Style" versus "Lightweight Style" Troop camping: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/equipment/lightweight_camping.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

As others have noted, NOW is the time to start thinking of lightweight Patrol Equipment that will allow you to continue your Hike-Based Program into ALL future camping types: Car Camping, Canoeing, Climbing, Backpacking, Whatever! Bob Geier's Intro to Lightweight Troop Gear: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/cooking/lightweight.htm Sadly, many Troops get locked in to plywood chuck boxes, which result in Webelos 3 camping with the Patrols too close together Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

jacobs writes: "maybe ideas for different Thoughts of the day" How about Green Bar Bill and Baden-Powell Thoughts of the Day, to encourage participants to take the "Real" Patrol Method home to their Boy Scout Troops? Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System (still used in some Wood Badge courses): "In Scout camps the tents are not pitched in lines and streets as in military camps, but are dotted about in Patrol units, fifty or a hundred yards apart or more, in a big circle round the Scoutmaster's tent, which, with the flag and camp fire, is generally in the centre," Baden-Powell ( http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm ). "Each Patrol should have its own separate tent at some distance (at least 100 yards) from the others. This latter is with a view to developing the responsibility of the Patrol Leader for his distinct unit," Baden-Powell (ibid). The adult-free Patrol Hike as practiced at Wood Badge: "Boys, and especially Scouts, want to go hiking. The out-of-doors fascinates them. The woods, the rivers, the "wide open spaces" call them. And they obey. As soon as you are able you will want to take your boys on Patrol Hikes. You want your Patrol to be a real one, and only a hiking Patrol is a Real Patrol" William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt ( http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/real.htm ). Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

No satellite phones or Axe body spray allowed!

"Kudu, how the heck do you get in to the schools." I did it for decades without any problems, but then for a couple of years a new principal at one school did not return my calls. I was told that it was now "against the rules." When I was asked to build up a "starving" Troop of four (4) Scouts I mentioned the problem to them. A new transfer Scout (with a very bad reputation for after-school fighting) said that one of the vice-principals was a Scoutmaster, and that it would be "no problem" for the Scout to talk him into a recruiting assembly during school hours. I told him he would be representing our Troop, so please be polite and ask the vice-principal's secretary for an appointment to meet with him. He laughed and said, "Nah. He is the vice-principal in charge of detention, so I see him every day!" Sure enough the vice-principal called me the next day, the transfer Scout helped me with the presentation, and a couple weeks later the Troop had 15 new registered Scouts. The original four Scouts were afraid of the bad boy from school, and would not vote for him as a Patrol Leader, so I appointed him "Troop Guide" (AKA Patrol Leader) of the new Scouts. It turned out that he was a NYLT Staffer, was very patient and nurturing with younger boys, and (due to his bearing), no Scout dared cross him. Whenever he raised the Scout Sign, the Troop was silent. Because discipline was never a problem we soon had the Patrols hiking independently at monthly campouts and camped 300 feet apart. The moral of the story: Know and Use your Natural Boy Leaders. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu "One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction," Baden-Powell ( http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm ). (This message has been edited by Kudu)

"The new 'Cupcake Scouting' (Kudu's term)" My original reference was to Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b, which made OPTIONAL, the required Webelos III backpacking trip, and replaced it with NON-CAMPING ALTERNATIVES for Eagles who hate camping. One of the "modern" alternatives to traditional backwoods camping was a "float trip," which everyone should agree is best accomplished floating downstream on an inner tube while eating cupcakes. Now any indoor boy can add "Eagle Scout" to his business resume without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back! "The MBs they work on for this one are: Citizenship in the Community Citizenship in the Nation Citizenship in the World Communications Family Life Personal Management" So what do any of these "required" badges have to with the game of Scouting, as it was understood by the outdoor game's inventor Baden-Powell? Academic subjects are what B-P defines as the exact opposite of Scouting, in his essays on "Education versus Instruction." Citizenship is B-P's aim, but it is the sweaty outdoor citizenship of his Patrol System, where the art of accomplishing common goals is learned through the struggle of regular Patrol Hikes without "adult association." Perhaps an alternative to Air Conditioned Indoor Eagles is to compromise in the spirit of Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b: Allow boys who hate classroom stuff as much as B-P, the option to learn citizenship, communication, and personal management as Baden-Powell intended, through the "Real" Patrol Method of unsupervised eight mile Patrol Hikes. Simply add a "9b" to every Indoor Merit Badge so that Outdoor Boy Scouts can go camping instead! Until that day, if we must force Scouts to endure, in the name of Fake Scouting, what all red-blooded American boys hate, what all red-blooded American boys have always hated, and what all red-blooded American boys will continue to hate until the end of time, what is wrong with air-conditioning in Central Florida? Camping season in the sub-tropics is winter, not summer: http://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

And Patrol house-climbing competitions.

I agree with SeattlePioneer: Every Troop is unique. But you can easily recruit 15 sixth-graders a year (out of an audience of 53), AFTER the local Council and Troops have done their best at crossing over their Webelos, IF you pitch Scouting as a Dangerous Adventure: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting_boy_scouts_public_schools.htm Of course you have to follow through on your promise to them. That doesn't take much: Regular backpacking, Patrols spaced 300 feet apart on monthly campouts, and hired outfitters for stuff your adults can't do, such as climbing walls, canoe trips, and everything else that Baden-Powell said boys enjoyed 100 years ago. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Finding rugged adults for High Adventure campouts can be much easier than for the usual 21st century monthly Webelos III (ItOLS) campouts. By the way, this is where women in Scouting belong: SCUBA, Rock Climbing, Canoe Journeys, Backpacking, 50 Mile Bike Trips, Winter Snowshoe Camping, 50 Mile Horseback Expeditions (Baden-Powell's version of the Eagle Project), Rifle and Shotgun Campouts, etc. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Beavah writes: "Yah, I reckon that even with Kudu's magical separation of 100 yards..." 100 yards between ALL Patrols is how Baden-Powell designed the game to be played. If Congress granted Wood Badge a monopoly on teaching soccer and football, then we would be talking about "Kudu's magical 100 yards of separation between end zones." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

My experience was similar to JMHawkins. When I was SM of an urban Troop, the local feeder Pack went belly up. So I used the following presentation to recruit in the public schools, and build up a Troop of about 30 Scouts who had never been in Cubs, or dropped out before Arrow of Light: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Looking at the sign-up sheets, about 75% of an audience of sixth-grade boys will (in front of their peers) ask you to call their parents so they can join Boy Scouts, IF you present Scouting as a dangerous adventure along the lines of the 1916 Scoutcraft program mandated by our Congressional Charter. About 28% of their parents will actually register them in the BSA, if you describe Scouting to THEM as simple "outdoor exercise," without ANY mention of "Eagle Scout" on their son's resume. For what it's worth, some statistics for those who wish to recruit sixth-graders who hated Cub Scouts: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting_boy_scouts_public_schools.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Eagle732 writes: "Do you really think that you get to decide that boys who don't like to backpack are not real scouts" Um, yes because I clearly identified that as "My Prejudice." The result of my prejudice is that our "Real Scouts" get to decide their own policy on a trivial matter over which adults should have no say in the deep backwoods. I did ask you if my videos of Scouts with electronics setting off on four backpacking treks made you ill. We will take your last post as a "Yes." Eagle732 writes: "I hadn't decided how to handle this when I first posted but now that I have I would think you could respect my decision..." OK, I missed that. I thought we were talking about the Scouts' decisions. Eagle732 writes: "I was trying to have a civil discussion on this topic." My post was civil. Lots of humor. Good advice on how to test for possible differences in responsibility between indoor boys and deep backwoodsmen. Poking fun at my own prejudices. Inviting you to do the same (my bad!) If you think my last post was NOT "civil" then you should click "Ignore this user" below "Kudu" on the left of your screen. Now. Eagle732 writes: "I do believe your comments are argumentative and disrespectful to another Scouter..." No, if I wanted to be argumentative and disrespectful, I would state the obvious: Your last post reveals how your Scouts see you: "Respect my decision" because "I might not stress 300 feet but I do stress the Scout Oath and Law, something I've been living by since 1964." I wonder why your SPL and PLC decided to let you have your way? Now that they have, CHLees3rd has the perfect advice: Remind the SPL and PLC that you've got them by the balls. If they don't enforce your "Respect my decision" policy, you will screw them at advancement time. Lesson Learned: Don't Suck Up. Well, I'm out the door. Our Scouts have a FL Keys SCUBA dive at less than 300 feet, Kudu

CHLees3rd writes: "If the PLC does not follow through with its rule, have the Board question them during Boards of Review. The Board not advancing the SPL to Life until he improves his leadership skills sends a huge wake up call!" Lesson Learned: Don't Suck Up.

Eagle732, We all have our prejudices. Obviously your mind is made up and you won't rest until an adult offers some creative way to bend "disobedient" Scouts to your will. Eagle732 writes: "Kudu, I'm not really sure about how backpacking and canoeing 5 miles to a campsite has anything to do with cell phone use. " You won't be "really sure" until you try it yourself. None of your incidents sound like rugged wilderness outings to me. Your profile says you like to backpack, so offer a remote "Backwoods Fishing" expedition where the outdoor Scouts determine their own electronics policy away from the SPL and the PLC. What's the worst that can happen? I offered a URL of our Scouts backpacking with electronic devices: http://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet So what was your gut reaction? Did you feel physically sick when you saw Boy Scouts that hike two to nine miles while listening to iPods? I said we all have our prejudices. My prejudice? Boys who do not love to backpack and/or travel to remote campsites by water are NOT Real Scouts. That's right, I said it. Yes, as a corporation our bread & butter is training Cub Scout Survivors how to become Eagle Scout "Character and Leadership" experts, without a single requirement that they ever walk into the woods with a pack on their backs. So given our corporate Mission, I find indoor boys with cellphones on Webelos III campouts just as annoying as you do. All I'm saying is that if a couple times a year you filter out those indoor boys with an expedition based on significant Physical Distance (and adult-free travel for the mature Scouts), the boys who sign up are your Troop's Real Scouts. Real Scouts and electronics are not a behavior problem, unless your prejudice is such that my videos did make you physically ill Eagle732 writes: "Quite different than the opinion of those who responded to the Scouting Magazine article where most felt that they hinder the program. Wonder why the difference of opinions?" My prejudice? Not a single one of those glossy magazine "trained adults" has ever met Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System: 300 feet between Patrols, and regular Patrol Hikes without adult association. Not once. If Baden-Powell were alive today, he would have adapted many of his Wide Games to incorporate cellphones: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm Baden-Powell's Scouting is based on rigorous games of strategy over significant Physical Distances. Eagle732 writes: "Since this is a problem that my SPL has identified and addressed I think I (the SM) should care about it." Yes, it is remarkable how the SPL and you are of one mind. Especially since so many of your Scouts disagree. My prejudice? If you suggested that backwoods expeditions should be exempt from the regular Webelos III campground policy, they would agree to that too. Problem solved. Eagle732 writes: "One other point. There's no concern about respecting others?" Nope. Not an issue after hauling a backpack five miles. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

"I'm not big on banning things but if you think about it there's lots of things banned in Scouting." Now you are on the right track! Ban campsites that require less than a five mile backpack or canoe trip to access. Nobody, including you, will care about the cell phones.

Eagle732 writes: "Kudu, I've seen cell phones on backpacking trips on the Appalachian Trail and on canoe trips so I don't think the type of activity determines phone use." Yes. I encourage the use of MP3 players in the backwoods: On the trail and in the tents only. Cell phones are OK as long as I don't see or hear them. All the Scouts bring electronics on High Adventure trips, but you can see, it's not a big deal: http://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

KC9DDI, I agree with every one of those sentences. I would add that like the PhD department head in Eamonn's team, the "Natural Leader" in a six month POR rotation Patrol may not always be the Patrol Leader, but he is the experienced "go to" guy if the Patrol courts trouble. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

My question: Think back to the last six of your Patrols that set off on individual Patrol Outings with no adult supervision. What concerns did you have, KC9DDI? Chances are the Patrol Leaders that you most trusted to get the boys back without injury or incident were a force to be reckoned with early on.

KC9DDI writes: "What do we actually mean by 'natural born?'" Adding "born" to "Natural Leader" is the invention of our office management experts here who vilify boys who show a natural talent for leadership, by comparing them to mass murderers like Jim Jones: An homage to Oliver Stone's "Natural Born Killers." KC9DDI writes: " But we don't talk about "natural born mathematicians," do we?" Yes, we do: KC9DDI writes: "these skills must be learned, practiced, and even developed over time." Which is why "Leadership Development" screws Patrol Leaders out of Green Bar Bill's position-specific "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol," where the Scoutmaster spends six months (SIX MONTHS) (SIX!!!!MONTHS!!!!) personally training each Natural Leader to lead his Patrol off a cliff. KC9DDI writes: "So here's my question for everyone - Why are we so concerned with what our youth leaders are born with?" Setting the "born" red herring aside, you can probably answer that for yourself: Think back to the last six of your Patrols that set off on a Patrol Outing with no adult supervision. What concerns did you have, KC9DDI? Chances are the Patrol Leaders that you most trusted to get the boys back without injury or incident were a force to be reckoned with early on. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction (Baden-Powell). http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm

"Natural leadership only means their character is one where folks tend to willingly follow, even if its off the cliff. Was Jim Jones a natural leader, I don't know. " Back before the invention of Leadership Development drove two million (2,000,000) Boy Scouts out of the BSA, the Patrol Method was based on Patrol Adventure, which required finding the Natural Leader: The boy with the character a Patrol of boys willingly follow, especially off a cliff. Leadership Development replaced Natural Leaders with disposable six month "great leaders." A "great leader" is a boy who can write a common vision statement and use the EDGE Method to tie a square knot. No more Green Bar Bill's position-specific "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol," where the Scoutmaster spends six months (SIX MONTHS) (SIX!!!!MONTHS!!!!) personally training each Natural Leader to lead his Patrol off a cliff. Our great success in replacing Patrol Adventure with office theory is due to our acquisition of the Holy Grail of business management: Congress picking the winners and losers among American corporations. The socialist ideal. If Congress had granted us a monopoly on baseball, then we "leadership skills" experts would hate Natural Athletes: "Boy that Tommy has a great arm, doesn't he?" "Yes, he reminds me so much of Jim Jones at that age." "Oh, your son hates baseball but he needs to pitch for six months for his Eagle POR, right?" "Right." If Congress had granted us a monopoly on hostage negotiation, then we "leadership skills" experts would hate people with a Natural Gift of Gab under extreme pressure. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

You might want to make copies of any of your favorite posts from the last three weeks.

Cell phones don't bother me so very much when we run a rugged program: Backpacking, canoe island camping, technical climbing, SCUBA. Patrols camped Baden-Powell's 300 feet apart. "Where's the Cobra Patrol?" "Jimmy just texted, they are still three miles out." My Scouts are so used to hiding their cell phones in school that I don't notice them texting, even though they are in constant contact: "I haven't seen Ryan all day." "He just told me that he and Sean are on the other side of the swamp catching snakes." I've never seen any of our phone-addicted SCUBA divers texting underwater. When they post photos to Facebook from the dive boat, or on an eight mile hike, or the top of a cliff they are about to jump over, then so much the better. But when we jam a bunch of Patrols into the same campsite in campgrounds with electricity, heated showers, and wifi, then I really hate cell phones and MP3 devices. They get in the way of me pretending that my "Leadership and Character" Webelos III program is really Scouting. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Who really was the true leader? The poor Den Leader who was unfairly excluded from Expedition Training because she hates outdoor skills.

qwazse writes: '"often goes hiking, camping, and sailing" ... *focus* was not the leadership, but rather the tasks...' Eamonn, if you want your presentation to contribute something original on the subject, simply start with the BSA's famous anti-Scoutcraft quotations from 1965 to the present day. From the very beginning (1965), Boy Scout "Leadership Development" has defined "the product, the package" as Scouting's "common vision" of leadership as the very opposite of qwazse's quote, above. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net