kraut-60

You have referenced a "uniform policy" in the original post on this thread. What does this "policy" state and where is it to be found? What BSA publication are you sourcing this "policy" from? I consider myself to be a "uniform guy",ie; I wear my uniform to all scout activities and encourage my fellow scouters to do so as well so we may set a good example for scouts to follow. Some aspects of scouting outdoor activities dont benefit from wearing the field uniform (AKA Class A's). However, an acivity uniform (AKA Class B's) which normally comprise a Scout themed T-shirt and may include uniform pants or shorts, are generally better suited for an activity such as you described. I can sense what you are suggesting in your post by having a "policy" to govern or regulate what scouts and scouters SHOULD be attired in, but I wouldnt hold my breath on it as getting all members to dress uniformly is akin to herding cats or pushing a rope....its at best frustrating. Perhaps the event or activity coordinators/staff could publish the suggested uniform to be worn and for what events it is encouraged to be so attired? As I previously stated, I am a uniform guy...I make sure I wear it as correctly as it should be, but I refrain from preaching to other scouters and scouts to do the same...I feel the silent example is the way to be most effective in promoting proper uniforming...and no one will accuse you of being the local uniform police either. Good luck to you in encouraging your fellow scouters and scouts to be scout like in their attire.

Well, I can see that a part of the presentation will have to cover the "issue" of which is a CSP and what isnt may need to be included. I am very grateful for the feedback those members of this forum have posted regarding this thread, I thank you all and am tailoring my outline to reflect most of the views that were posted here, especially Lisa'Bobs regarding the target audience for this topic. I had hoped that having it flexible enough for the Scouts would be beneficial, but upon review, I see that having Scouters and parents as the focus will likely have the best long term result in that those folks will exert the most influence any of our Scouts will see. I do feel that having it (the presentation) flexible in scope to be able to go further in depth for Roundtable or leader training, or having the more basic information covered for new Scout parents will still work out. I am considering having a demo using the new "switchbacks" uniform pants versus blue jeans/cotton pants by taking a pair of each and immersing them in water and wringing them out at the start of the presentation, and comparing which pair of pants will be drier at the end of the presentation by offering participants the chance to compare and draw their own conclusion.

Interesting...Neckerchiefs in question. While attending the troops PLC last night I heard our Scouts views on neckerchiefs. What they expressed was they prefered to only wear them as a manditory wear item for Courts of Honor, inspections and parades. They further decided that any Scout in their troop can wear his neckerchief while in uniform if he wants to. They also expressed interest in adopting bolo ties, but will get more input from troop and patrol members before making policy on it. Oh...BrianBuf, you posed the question in another thread about a uniform a Scout would wear to school. Well, my son got his new "Switchbacks" scout pants yesterday, he wore them to the troop meeting and got LOTS of positive comments from his fellow scouts. He also wore the same pants to school today. Granted he did NOT wear the uniform shirt and other parts of the full uniform...but he likes the pants enough to wear them as they are in his words "cool". My son is 2 months shy of his 15th birthday and is a freshman in high school.

One word here...WOW! All the replies here are excellent, I am very impressed with several suggestions, especially the Top Ten type of list. I will take the T-10 and use it with the T-10 Shoulds and the T-10 Should nots. The "Jeopardy" game approach will be utilized as I feel a presentation with audience participation leaves more of an impression than a mere lecture tends to. I will continue to outline my presentation using the good feedback I have gotten here, thanks again to all replying! I would add that some of my top ten shouldnts are.... Scouters wearing a tempory patch on the left pocket. Scouters and Scouts wearing multiple Quality Unit patches. Scouters wearing "Trained" strips on the right sleeve.

Gonzo1; great feedback! thanks again for some good ideas. Emb021; Also some very good points, I especially like the 10 current uniforms, but I'm not sure I could list all 10 but I'll give it a shot. 1.) Tiger Cubs Blue uniform w/Tiger specific cap,neckerchief,slide,belt buckle. 2.)Cub Scout-Wolf Blue uniform w/Wolf specific cap,neckerchief,slide,belt buckle. 3.)Cub Scout-Bear Blue uniform w/Bear specific cap,neckerchief,slide,belt buckle. 4.)Webelos Scout Tan/Olive uniform w/Webelos specific cap,neckerchief,slide,buckle 5.)Cub Scout leader Tan/Olive uniform (Male/Female). 6.)Cub Scout leader Yellow/Blue uniform (female only). 7.)Boy Scout youth or adult member Tan/Olive uniform. 8.)Venturers youth or adult member Green/Gray uniform. 9.)Sea Scouts youth Blue/White/chambray-denim uniform(s). 10.)Sea Scouts adult advisor Blue/White/Khaki uniform(s). Am I right ? or wrong?

Thanks for the reply Gonzo1. I am open for suggestions about how to best inform scouters and scouts about the uniform as it presently exists. I hope to be able to have a whole picture of how the uniform came into use in the BSA and how it fits into the program and why we wear it and hopefully to promote more scouters as well as scouts to take pride in their uniform and wear it properly.

Greetings everyone! I will be putting together a presentation regarding uniforms as a ticket item for Wood Badge. I hope to have it in a format that will be useful in Roundtable, Leader specific training as well as presenting it to packs/troops/teams or crews, so I will have to have it flexible to fit all areas of scouting. I dont want to present this in a lecture only style but hope to have interaction with the audience as well as a skit or two to keep the monotony nonexistent. I hope to use Powerpoint for parts of this as well as right/wrong examples. I would like to invite suggestions from the forum and will listen to and consider all replies. I feel the posters here would have some constructive feedback to help guide me in this project.

I will back up Kenks last note with regard to the Eureka timberline series tents, they are the best I've ever used. We are using the 4 man model tents and these tents date back to 1997 when we purchased 8 of them (we presently have 7 as one was stored wet and mildewed/molded very badly). These tents still have the original zippers still working and vestibules as well. Our troop only allows cots with the rounded legs and only at summer camp and limited to 2 scouts per tent. We also have a Eureka timberline 2 man/person tent that is a smaller version of the 4 man tent. We use this when lady members of our troops committee or a mom goes out with the troop. Dump the Colemans for troop use, I have and use a Coleman Montana 5 man tent but I take very good care of it and usually sleep solo or with one other adult leader, but it will fit 3 adults with cots and packer boxes for gear. Keep the packs out of tents, too many sharp edges.

I have also just finished the 2nd weekend GNX Guy, and I will offer this. I am an Antelope and none of Troop 1's staff are Antelopes here, however before we dismissed from Gilwell, our SPL had us sing at Gilwell field before we were dismissed and the SM and SPL ran over to sing with us 'lopes as no other 'lopes were there, I thought it to be a very noble move and think the world of my SM and the SPL for doing it. Are you in C19-06?

As a leader, I believe I should set a positive example. In Nov. 2004, I signed up to go to Philmont in July 2006. At that time I weighed 267lbs. I am 5'10" and was wearing 42" waist pants and a 2xl shirt,...not exactly the example one would hope to be, but I had to start somewhere. By paying my fees for Philmont, I found out that a scouter MUST meet the height/weight guidelines or be DENIED to go on the trail and be sent home. I decided I was going on the trail no matter what. In Feb. 2005 I started a diet and exercise regimen that was heavy on hiking and bicycling. I denied myself ANY snacks after dinner and controlled my intake with portions and no junk food, 8 glasses of water per day....I could start a thread on just the details, but I was determined to be on the trail in Philmont. At the High Adventure physical I took in June this year, I was down to 209lbs, and had my cholesterol where its supposed to be. At the medical recheck at Philmont, I weighed in at 204lbs (7-31-2006). I am now at 200lbs and still losing weight. I had to buy new uniforms ( 36" waist and size L shirts), I'm still hiking, biking, and watching my diet and really feel good about myself. I was really glad to not just have survived Philmont, but actually enjoyed the trek and now I cant wait to return and do a tougher trek. I feel that any scouter can be active and fit, all you need is the proper motivation. I believe the scouts respect me more now than before as I can actually keep up and even out-hike some of them now. Get fit...its great for and great for Scouting to have fit and healthy leaders.

I would add that uniforms are required for scouts and scouters. The Boy Scouts is a UNIFORMED youth movement. I believe that when you are outwardly identified as a scout/scouter, you will carry yourself in deeds and actions a lot more readily than in street clothes. I dont believe that the uniform is any more of an important method than the other 7, but I believe its the easiest method to achieve and maintain, and in my perspective is the the best place to start from in attaining and practicing the other methods. The answer in uniforms does NOT lie in changing the uniform to some fast food inspired polo shirt style anynonmous image. The boys in the troop I serve in LIKE their uniform shirts and the different insignia on them, granted they dont wear them on every possible occasion, but they do when its specified to worn in conjunction with meetings and suitable scouting activities. I cant imagine my son or anyone else's son in my troop getting all fired up over a polo shirt, and since when do teenage boys WILLINGLY wear such a shirt?

Merlyn, you dont disappoint. I could count on you to take up any cause, so long as its anti-BSA. If the BSA put a bucket of dung in the middle of the Gobi desert, you would probably go out of your way to get out there and kick it over! The previous statement is not condoned by the BSA and reflects only my (kraut-60) personal views regarding your anti-BSA rhetoric. Have a crappy day and a worse tomorrow Merlyn.

There were fleas, fleas, with kilts and hairy knees, in the store, in the store! There were fleas, fleas, with kilts and hairy knees, in the quartermasters store! Now gents, me mums fra' Glasgow...Govan ta be exact, an I was taught this song as a wee lad. Only one problem is that the more traditional verses are shall we say not scout appropriate! Theres Antelopes who joke, but dont drink or smoke, in the store, in the store! theres Antelopes who joke, but dont drink or smoke, in the quartermasters store! My eyes are dim, I cannae see, I 'ave not brought ma specs wi me! I 'ave not brought ma specs wi me!

I could see them adding merit badges in the subject areas of video gaming and game design. These are the two areas I see my own son the most involved in if the opportunity were there. I think the program has constantly underwent changes, more than a few MB's are no longer offered as they are no longer relevant or popular in todays society. However I caution you not to reinvent the wheel. In my days as a Scout, no one then a scout would wear his uniform to school, except as a 2nd or 3rd grader on picture day. No other school sports/band/etc groups have their members wear their uniforms EXCEPT when required for PARTICIPATING in their respective activities. As a boy, I was proud of the BSA uniforms, even though they were very different from the popular styles of the day. If we were to change the uniform for every new generation we'd be getting new styles nearly every other year. Thrifty it would not be! Perhaps lifting the ban on paint-ball, or motorsports would increase participation, but I believe these issues are connected to the insurance and liability aspect and that the BSA wont place itself in that particular jeopardy considering the tort-happy legal environment we have let flourish... money for nothing! BP wrote a book on scouting, it wasnt originally intended for boys, but after he returned to England and found it was very popular with the boys of that time, he then went on to title it as Scouting for Boys. Lets not forget that the time scouting was born into was not one where children had the distractions and the lack of parenting we find all too prevalent today here in the good old USA. Those boys then grabbed onto BP's ideas as something interesting to do. Much the same as boys today will. The BSA really isnt broken, so lets watch what we fix. Scouting had enough of a black eye when they tossed Bill Hillcourts ways out in an ill-advised attempt to attract urban youth, and it failed. Scouting would best to follow the Scout oath and law as its guideposts. Tell the truth in regards to numbers and avoid starting new units when combing existing ones would be a better option.

Change Scouting to suit society's lack of direction and obsession with "cool"?Change or get rid of the traditional uniforming, emblems to increase numbers? Alter the programs to reflect that which is presently popular? Scrap the Scouts as they exist is what I am receiving from Brianbuf's post. Well, I will take exception to such ideas and suggest you run right out and form and establish a youth organization that will suit your ideas good sir, and good luck to you if you undertake such an endevour. I have no intention whatsoever to see "cool" become part of the Scout Law. I became too "cool" for Boy Scouts when I turned 16 and dropped out and was drinking and smoking and all the other non-scout type activities 'cool" teenagers did in 1974 and probably still do. I am grateful that the Boy Scouts didnt change. I was grateful the Cub Scouts didnt change, because I was relieved to have these youth movements to turn to in order to help my son grow into being a better citizen of our great nation, because I spent a significant part of my teen years being "cool" and would like to keep my son from having to go down the path I mistakenly chose. I'm also grateful for the traditional values Scouting has at its core, and I'm thankful that I was able to come back to Scouting after being "cool". I would have likely said some rather opinionated things regarding what Briabuf's prefered version of Scouting could be, but I ran it through the Scout filter and nothing came out the other side, so I guess it wasnt in line with the Scout Law and Oath.

I was senior advisor to crew 731-F at Philmont this summer. Our crew was on itinerary #9 in the north country. We were sharing the trek with crew 731-I2 who were from Arcadia CA. The advisors names I can recall are Gordon,Pete and Bob. There was another adult advisor whose name I never did learn. Point of this post is to seek help in contacting Gordon or the other advisors as we have a group photo shot on our crews return at the welcome center and also because Gordon and I had talked about trading CSP's between ourselves. If anyone here recognizes the names I have listed here, please let them know about this message. I got busy on the last day in base camp and didnt get names and addresses like I should have. If you're out there Gordon, take care and talk to you soon hopefully, and again,you California guys were great trail company. Will Kirchmayer

Most of the replies so far are right on the money as to why Cubs are rarely seen in full uniform. One reason you wont see is the Cubs refusal to wear uniform pants because most Cubs will wear whatever uniform parts their parents provide them. I am a parent who also knows how fast a kid can outgrow something so I can sympathize with that line of reasoning. I do feel that a group of scouts in full uniform is worth what it costs to achieve as it builds esprit de corp. The suggestion to be the example is the easiest one and the least confrontational. Many parents and scouts will opt for the waist up only as its usually what everyone else is doing. By having your son and yourself in full uniform, you will raise the bar in your unit and just possibly start a move towards more scouts and leaders in full uniforms. However, dont be discouraged when the numbers arent as high as you would prefer, after all, a uniform is not required to be a member of the BSA. I had to attend a scouters funeral today, my son and I both wore full uniforms to the service. We could have worn suits, but we felt that the man being honored was deserving of wearing our best uniforms. Apparently so did the scouts and leaders from his pack as they were also in uniform,most were in shirts only, but one leader and our district executive were in full uniform. The pack presented the colors and retired them...very moving, and very touching. When I got up to leave, 2 scouts from our troop were seated in back of my son and myself,one scout in uniform and one in civvies who remarked he'd wished he had worn his uniform. I told him that he was a scout whether in uniform or out, he still said he wished he had worn his uniform. trlarue; be the example. You can do it...well.

acco40; the pants were/are the same fabric as the current pants/shorts. The style is the one that has a non elastic waistband and the cargo pockets were placed on the pants upper thigh centered on the outer seam, I believe they were still availible in the mid 1990's until the current style came into use. I think you should wear the lodge flap you prefer as long as it was issued to identify the lodge you are a member of. Fuzzy Bear;why is mentioning or not mentioning the source of used uniforms relevant? And by signing "The UP" are you identifying yourself as such?

Wingnut; I like your answer, nowhere does it state how high a pair of pants should be hemmed. Please dont hijack the thread as a sniper session on the crux of what is the uniform police. We all are the uniform police,... I know I am, if I want to be. I wear my uniform correctly and constantly to all scouting events and meetings, to me that is being my version of "UP". Measuring the distance a patch is out of line should only be an issue when getting the photos ready for the new scout catalog, along with proper placement of patches of course. There is NO official uniform police, hopefully only scouters who set a proper example of uniform dress. Having our scouts wear the uniform is not a goal or aim in scouting, but it is a method I like to see practiced, and I will support scouts who willingly wear their uniform, even if they do modify it within reason. The uniform can be a great source of esprit de corps if used effectively, but it can be a major stumbling block if forced on and over regulated.

I would suggest having the Troop committee take your councils Troop Committee Challenge. Our Troop recently had this training and it was great! The training is aimed towards newer scouters or those with a little fore knowledge of the ins and outs of being a scouter. The training is also a good benchmark reminder for older, seasoned scouters as it reiterates the duties each committee position has and clearly outlines the who, what, where and when the committe has to know to function effectively. You could almost say that Troop Committee Challenge might be called "Troop committee for dummies", but I wouldnt call anyone on a TC a dummy. I suppose the biggest task you will face if your TC does take the TCC, is to actually get them all together to do it. Maybe some of the seasoned TC members will feel its just more "been there, done that", but I would urge them to attend anyway. We had about 6 members attend our recent TCC, of which we had the new CC, COR, ASM, and the CM's who fill the Equipment coordinator and Training coordinator positions. We plan to hold this training again this winter for those who didnt make the last one. We ordered in pizza and had those attending bring their beverage of choice. A good time for all!

I bought my son a pair of BSA shorts off e-bay a while back. They have the large pocket above the knee on the side and I figured they were simply the shorts version of the older pants that featured the large cargo pocket on the leg. Turns out that the shorts are really only pants that had the legs bobbed shorter. The good knews is that they are long enough to qualify as being sort cool in my sons description. Seems also that other scouts said they'd like some like his as the length is on par with the longer style shorts so popular today with teen age boys. I am going to look for scout pants that are "holy" at or below the knees and get them bobbed and see if the scouts in my troop will want to wear them. I'm sure an aspiring UP will inform me that such a modification will go against BSA policy and that anarchy will soon follow, but I feel that if this will get scouts to wear official but tastefully modified uniform pants/shorts, then whats the harm? This will also help to re-use pants that would otherwise be good only for patch material. Perhaps the excess material could be used to make pockets for the legs if the newer style pants are used for this conversion? Okay, forum...fellow scouters...lurkers..shirkers..UP types...whats your 2 cents say?

We have only 7 tents left out of 8 identical ones the troop bought in the late 90's. The tent that no longer is sucumbed to the Didntgetdriedoutous malady better known as "I forgot....", or moldier than an address in New Orleans. We have had good luck having scouts take home and dry tents, my peeve has been that the parts get shuffled around (we number every part and keep all together,..except stakes). I have also had the scouts bring the wet tents to my home as I have a 4 car plus garage. It looks like sail loft in there after a wet campout, but the tents get dry and then I have the scouts come back over to PROPERLY re-stow them. Since instituting this method, there has been little to no problems with tents. Yes,...I know someone here will point out that I should let the scouts take them home to dry out, and that if Timmy Tenderfoot doesnt do it then he can sleep in that tent next time out...right. And while well intended, all it usually adds up to is a tent that smells like the Russian Navy celebrated their last pay-day in it, not what I would want in my troop gear shed/trailer/room..etc. By all means have a CM be the equipment coordinator! This can be a god-send as it will empower an adult to take the QM under his wing and ensure the QM is doing his job, plus it will give one committee member more to do than be on an occasional BoR, or driving to an event.

The troop I serve in has "zip-loc eggs", usually on the menu for Saturday morning when there is a lot of activities planned that would be infringed on by a long prep and clean-up time. We have one of the scouts fry up a pound or two of bacon on the Thursday before the event and crumble it up and seal it in a large zip-loc bag. This has the advantage of little to no prep in the field time and best of all, NO greasy dishes in the field to waste lots of time cleaning! I like the suggestions to knead the eggs to avoid the infamous "BF Goodrich" omlette. I have seen that even most Boy Scouts dont care for onions and green peppers in their eggs, so its more for those who do like them(namely the adults). I'll have to try the Liptons onion soup mix idea, sounds good!! On sundays, we tend to favor a mountain man breakfast done in a dutch oven. Clean-up is no big deal if you line the oven with aluminum foil.

Hi Tod, I wore the now no longer issued Blue and gold baseball cap when I was a Wolf and Bear den leader (1999-2002). When the den I served became Webelos, I purchased a red and khaki(green) BSA cap and wore that while in uniform. I no longer have the blue and gold cub cap or I would send it to you, but I dont think you'd do much harm by wearing the BSA ball cap if you choose to. The default uniform for all scouting programs adult leaders(except Venturing)is the tan and green uniform of which the red and khaki(green) cap is a part of. The scouts in the W1 den asked me why I chose the Boy Scout cap and I told them, "we'll be in Boy Scouts in a couple of years, so I'll wear this as a reminder until we get there". John in KC, is the beret really dead? Perhaps for you, but others who choose to wear it think it is quite alive, just seen in smaller numbers.

Thanks MV for your feedback, sorry I have been away for several days and only today seen your last post. Heres a quick tale on who the UP may be, sometimes they arent even scouts or scouters! When; Monday morning, Memorial day 8:45am Where;Outside the local American legion post Who; Local radio announcer, my son and myself My son was in full uniform and wearing his MB sash, however he chose to wear his short sleeve shirt that had his 1st class rank (he is a Star),and was being interviewed live on local radio. The interviewer noted "You have 9 MB's but you are only a 1st class scout? Should'nt you be a Star scout with that many MB's?" My son replied, "I am a Star scout, but my Star patch is on my long sleeve shirt and its too hot today to wear that one, and my Dad hasnt got another Star patch for me yet,..Right Dad?" At this point the interviewer pointed the mike my way and said "You must be the dad,right?" "Yes, guilty as charged" I replied. The interviewer went on to state (while on a live radio feed) that he had been a scout and was aware of what scout uniforming was and is and thought that the scoutleaders in our community were in his words "doing a great job as the scouts looked sharp in their uniforms". All that the other leaders and myself had done was to be in full correct uniforms. One thing I have to point out was that a lady serving as a troop committee member of one of our towns other troops was in a full uniform, and she is new to the position. I went up to her and asked to shake her hand. She was puzzled, but I told her how rare it is to see a committee member in just a hirt much less a full uniform. So, fellow campfire members, usual suspects, aspiring UP applicants....who was the uniform police in this strange but true adventure? PS, lets start something....seek and thank all pack,troop,crew,ship committee members in uniform and thank them for being of service and in uniform!