John-in-KC

13 posts and Merlyn hasn't weighed in yet. That's a new record... What's this clown doing? Hoping the Obama Court will overturn Dale?

Thank you for your contribution to the body of sarcastic literature, Rick.

VigilEagle04... I'm just an old Field Artillerist. I never had a disco group do a recruiting video for me...

1) It should be a permanent patch. 2) It should be below the US Flag, and bump all other right side insignia/patches downward. 3) It should be something coordinated by the National Relationships Committee, and be based on the National HQ level of the various Chartered Partners. 4) Exemptions allowed for small Partners (fewer than 1000 Scouts nationwide) and for-profit business Partners. My thoughts.

Unless they are 19 Deltas... (Cavalry Scout). Then they are scouts. ;-) On a serious note, I think the overall commonality, worldwide, of the crackerjack uniform for the Naval Service gave it the impetus for Sea Scouting. I don't know if folks have noticed, but the classic blue dungaree shipboard utility seems to be slowly winding its way out of the military system. More and more Naval shipboard people are wearing the Navy's own version of battle dress. In fact, each service now has its own proprietary utility uniform. Your tax dollars at work ...

Stosh, I think the post WWII experience of a certain non-US youth group drove BSA forever away from military uniforms. (Boy was that a PC spin to avoid Godwin's Law). Your provision as a re-enactor was 10 USC 772 f. A re-enactment, at the end of the day, is theater. If you will recall, though, I questioned your use of weapons and sidearms at the time. I think that goes to what Beavah has told us more than once: Internal consistency in BSA documents? Don't be too sure about that! The 10 USC 772 j 1 provision, my belief, is now interpreted as BSA will use its own distinctive uniform.

Baden, I'll compare DD214s, commissions, and retirement orders with you any day. Hit me in PM with your .mil email, and I'll send you my .mil email. My view is held by more than a few other serving, retired, and veteran Scouters. When I was a youth member, Dad could still fit his woolen winter field uniform trou ... but he didn't use them for Scouting. He did, when we did the John Muir Trail, get the current basic combat boot. He's worn those for many years. I had one of his fatigue hats ... the kind that had the wool flaps. Dad let me wear it in town, but not to Scouting. Sorry, we agree to disagree.

First, I'm going to challenge you: Why 1/1 at every unit meeting? This isn't Tiger Cubs ... the kids can and should (ages and stages) be weaning away a little bit from Mom/Dad. Second, those who've seen me here have heard me before on Den Chiefs: They are the greatest aid to recruiting a Troop will ever have. It's responsibility beyond their years. I'd encourage you to ask for them. Since you can only charter in one position, you are the CM. You are ad hoc the Bear DL. You have direct contact support responsibilities to all the DLs, and some oversight responsibilities. Given the challenge of your Committee (elsewhere), I'd think about recruiting an ADL to help the rest of this school year, and to move up to DL for the Webelos year + ... Good hunting.

1) Call your DE. Ask who the Institutional Head and COR are on the Charter. 2) Call the IH. Ask for a business meeting with him, the COR, and the CC. 3) Form your own vision and goals for the Pack. Make sure they align with the values of the Chartered Partner, be it church or service group. 4) At the meeting, have the responsibilities of the Committee available (they're online at scouting.org). Ask for active support from your committee doing the things they are supposed to do (money management, advancement support, transportation support, publicity, and such). 5) If you get "deer in the headlights" or worse, "it's your job" ... punch out. Direct contact leaders are great and good people, and their Scouting lives are busy enough with their basic duties. Remember, all the moving parts work together for only one reason: The youth. In fact, I'd work that into your pitch... Good hunting

E92, I've been a Boy Scout. Usually our uniform inspection was in January each year, ahead of the February COH and potluck dinner. The SM invited in someone from the community. In 1970 or so, a man who'd been born in 1920 and fought WWII was just entering his 50s. He could look at a uniform inspection sheet quickly and "get the point." Of course, the object was for the Patrol to win the inspection: Mrs SM made wonderful fried chicken, and the winning Patrol got a chicken dinner! When I was a CC, the SM and I conspired to invite the UC in for a uniform inspection once a year. We had a similar prize for our winner. The part I object to is the "field correction" you described. To me, that sounds coercive and adult run in nature. In fact, we're moving away from competition at camporees. Our District has done conservation service projects recently, and also we've done fun things (shotgunning, black powder, archery) in greater number.

E92, May I have your real address please? You have earned your Badge as a Senior Inspector of the Uniform Police.

Pack, I understand. Everyone has to come up wiht their own definition. I think the bigger message is a Troop has a pretty good shot at achieving the real goal of Boy Scouting (helping families raise young men to the entry door of adulthood) if the Aims and Methods are kept in pretty good balance.

To me, there's a difference between a very successful Troop and an Eagle Mill: - A very successful Troop uses the Aims and the Methods ... all of them ... in balance. - A very successful Troop looks to the program as the tool to raise up the youth. - Everyone in a very successful Troop looks down the line towards the younger, and seeks opportunities where the youth can develop themselves. OTOH, an Eagle Mill... - Has an imbalance to the Advancement Method, weighting it over others. - Mis-uses elements of the program, such as having merit badge school classes during unit meetings. - Does not have an ethic of solid skills foundation at each step of the ladder. - Has a distinctly higher rank advancement rate than the national average. 4-5 kids in 55? That's not quite 10% a year. That's not bad. OTOH, if I were to hear 15-20 Eagles a year, that's 30-40% and I'd be asking questions. At the end of the day, though, only direct observation of a unit over time can tell you if its goal is to produce Eagles, or simply great young people. My 0.013 adjusted for inflation...

Uhhh.... http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C45.txt 10 USC 772 -CITE- 10 USC Sec. 772 02/01/2010 -EXPCITE- TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES Subtitle A - General Military Law PART II - PERSONNEL CHAPTER 45 - THE UNIFORM -HEAD- Sec. 772. When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized -STATUTE- (a) A member of the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard may wear the uniform prescribed for the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard, as the case may be. (b) A member of the Naval Militia may wear the uniform prescribed for the Naval Militia. © A retired officer of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of his retired grade. (d) A person who is discharged honorably or under honorable conditions from the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may wear his uniform while going from the place of discharge to his home, within three months after his discharge. (e) A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him during that war. (f) While portraying a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production may wear the uniform of that armed force if the portrayal does not tend to discredit that armed force. (g) An officer or resident of a veterans' home administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs may wear such uniform as the Secretary of the military department concerned may prescribe. (h) While attending a course of military instruction conducted by the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, a civilian may wear the uniform prescribed by that armed force if the wear of such uniform is specifically authorized under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of the military department concerned. (i) Under such regulations as the Secretary of the Air Force may prescribe, a citizen of a foreign country who graduates from an Air Force school may wear the appropriate aviation badges of the Air Force. (j) A person in any of the following categories may wear the uniform prescribed for that category: (1) Members of the Boy Scouts of America. (2) Members of any other organization designated by the Secretary of a military department. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is not the Congressional Charter. This is that part of the US Code governing the Armed Forces of the United States of America. Boy Scouting is not authorized to wear the Armed Forces uniforms, in general (there are exceptions for disposal of certain Naval uniforms to Sea Scouting). This restriction applies to most citizens in most cases. Stosh's former activity (I believe) of re-enacting is covered under 10 USC 772f. Boy Scouting is authorized to wear its own distinctive uniforms. Do I wear my former Gore-Tex parka? Yes. I paid $160 bucks at clothing sales for it. It's also now an obsolete uniform (BDUs are gone, we're in ACUs). Do I wear current field boots? NO. There's better stuff out there. Do I wear a boonie hat? Actually, Propper Corporation makes the boonie hat in straight khaki. I wear that instead of BDU pattern. HTH.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

To TNScouter: Are your IH and COR onboard with this? Do you have a good working relationship with your DE, District Commish, and Unit Commish? Odds are someone will complain to the professionals, and the pros will send commish to the IH, COR, and you. To Beavah: What is the risk exposure of a discrimination complaint against the Chartered Partner?

Stosh, I'm glad you wrote that. This isn't nuclear fuel handling, where very precise rules and regulations govern procedure. This is not an assembly line where every part must be made just this way every time. This is the Boy Scouting program Our charge is to help raise 11-17 years old grow through their teen years to become adults. We're concentrating on character, citizenship, and fitness. Scouting is independently licensed to each Chartered Partner. That club on the app? (IAW the rules and regulations...)? That's a self-policing clause. The fact this thread exists shows units function to the right and the left of the centerline. Live with it, folks. BSA has a tool to protect the brand name: The local Council can refuse to recharter an organization and a unit. Now, to Stosh, If the Committee cannot get an advancement quorum, and a youth is being held back by the adults, it's time for the SM to have a quiet word with the CC and the COR: I expect you, Mr/Ms CC, to get your head out of rectal defilade and get this kid a BOR.

Yes, Lisa, That is customary. In the District I serve, we allocate a room to the District Advancement Committee each month at Roundtable. (The object of that exercise is 1 stop shopping for direct contact Scouters). The Scout meets 1/1 with a member of the advancement committee. The project is either approved, or the Scout is told exactly the deficiencies. If there is a deferral, the Scout also gets contact data so he and the Advancement Committee member can get together during the month and close the gaps. I hope that makes sense.

@shortridge: NO!!! (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

As far as program goes... The best way to influence others to have a good program, is for you to give your den superior program. Go to Pow-Wow (or University of Scouting). Take the classes that help you improve the program you give. Look for opportunities in your immediate area. Look for resources at your District and Council. Attend Roundtable, get ideas from others. Style points get awarded for stealing other people's good ideas. and... HAVE FUN, for you and your youth.

jet, The step you implied is part of the much broader Scoutmaster Conference I left it off malice aforethought. We on this board went through a year long thread of over 50 pages covering a refused Scoutmaster Conference.

Lisa, Verbatim from Requirements webpage: While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The project plan must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your Scoutmaster and troop committee, and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 512-927, in meeting this requirement. Url is: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-927.pdf Here is the approvals section from the pdf, verbatim: Approvals Before You Start The project plan must be reviewed and approved by the beneficiary of the project, your unit leader, the unit committee, and the council or district advancement committee before the project is started. The following questions must be answered before giving this approval:  What is the project you are planning?  Who will benefit from the project?  How will they benefit?  What representative of the projects beneficiary will be contacted for guidance in planning the project?  What are the project planning details? Remember, the project must be approved before you begin, so make sure all signatures have been secured before you start the project. You must be a Life Scout before you begin an Eagle Scout leadership service project. Here is what happens at the EBOR. The italics are mine: After Completion Although your project was preapproved by the projects beneficiary, your unit leader, the unit committee, and the council or district advancement committee before it was begun, the Eagle Scout board of review must approve the manner in which it was carried out. The following must be answered:  In what ways did you demonstrate leadership of others?  Give examples of how you directed the project rather than doing the work yourself.  In what way did the religious institution, school, or community group benefit from the project?  Did the project follow the plan?  If changes to the plan were made, explain why the changes were necessary. Short version: BEFORE - Scoutmaster approves the project. - Troop Committee approves the project. - Customer approves the project. - District Advancement Committee approves the project. AFTER: - Customer signs off project was completed. - EBOR approves the project completion. Does that make sense? John

ScoutNut and shortridge, I think the possibility of a less than favorable resolution here is pretty good. As we've learned, sometimes the very hard way, friendly cups of coffee and quiet businesslike conversations work. I'll be looking to my East for a big explosion.

1) This is a matter for the Cubmaster, the Chartered Organization Representative, and the Institutional Head. They can get advice from the Unit Commissioner and the District Executive. 2) From what you say, this does sound outside the bounds of the program. If they are, you may be approached to be the next CC. Are you ready to take that duty? 3) You may opt to transfer your child to a neighboring Pack. I wish you well.

Tom Peters said it long ago: Train and retrain constantly. The first aid skills I learned 40 years ago as a Boy Scout are different from the skills I refreshed recently. Best practices change. Scouting offers lots of supplemental training opportunities. Take advantage of them. My skills as a D.O. cook have improved because of supplemental training. Work backwards. Assess yourself against the skills needed for your program. Where you assess yourself weak, find and take training to solve the weakness. HTH. YIS.

Units don't use ScoutNet. The Boy Scouts of America uses ScoutNet. It is the management information system of the National Council. Units using internet advancement upload data to ScoutNet. When I was a unit advancement coordinator, once a year I asked my DE for a ScoutNet printout of my youth. I then crosswalked what they had and what we had on TroopMaster. Where there were discrepancies in favor of the Scout, I cut an Advancement Report and turned it in. Where there were (and there were) discrepancies against the Scout (awards he had not earned), I sent a business letter to the registrar, cc the DE. The facts of the matter are: - In most Councils, BSA ScoutNet is the database of record. - Units provide the source material. - Units need to keep independent, and very good, records on the youth in their charge. My $0.01 (inflation, y'know)...