John-in-KC

Flyingfish, At 54 years old, I think I'm an adult! Point is this: MB Counselors self-select based on their own assessment of knowledge, skills, and abilities. There are limited exceptions: Aquatics and shooting sports come to mind. I do not counsel over 100 of the merit badges BSA offers: I do not have the knowledge base and skills to counsel them. The 5 I do counsel, I think I'm pretty darn good at. If you are truly the only expert in your area, then of course your son comes to you for that MB. If you're just worried, then let him learn from others and come back and ask you, "Dad, what about...?" It becomes a win-win.

Flyingfish, Surely there is another master carpenter in your District who is also a MB Counselor. The boy, sooner than later, will have to introduce himself to a complete stranger and ask for a job. Why not have him practice well now, by going outside his comfort zone. Now, if Dad was the only master carpenter in your District, then that's a wholly different story.

The Scoutmaster is the Guardian of the Aims and Methods. BSA Requirements #33215 states the Scoutmaster assigns the MB Counselor. ACP&P #33088 says the District Advancement Chair approves all MB Counselors. Got a rogue MB Counselor? Rein him in. A friendly cup of coffee with your DAC will gett him removed at years' end. For now, the SM stops assigning MBs to him, and in fact, can say to him: You will not receive any more Scouts seeking MBs from within the roster of this Troop. Let me be clear: ACP&P explicitly permits parents to counsel their own children. In my role as the trainer for MB Counselors in my district, I tell folks that's usually not a best practice. Billy knows how to push Mom's button. There's also, as is implied with a veil here, an integrity issue.

To bt01, What's the real question? Can you help us out a little more? We're giving you policy based on the broadness of your question...

The simple fact is the Ordeal has folks of all ages pulling together. We all know that. To me, the age differential is a non-starter.

I'd have no problem if we went back to the old words: "The Honor Camping Society of the Boy Scouts of America." Boy Scouts is Boy Scouts. Got it. Semantically, "Scouting" opens the door.

E73, Then suck it up, and do what National tells you to. I'm retired US Army. I've opened and run 203mm direct fire ranges at Grafenwoehr. I think I know how to run a safe range. I'm not NRA RSO. I'm not running any ranges in my Council. It's obvious you didn't want to hear the answer. Well, the answer's been given you. Suck it up and just do it.

Scouting to me means the movement as well. I have no qualms with Cub Scouts being excluded. They've not yet developed/matured to the point of eligibility to entrance. You work from HS - College - AA - AAA ball before you finally get called up to the Majors. First Class Scout, 15 days and nights of camping is the similar gate. What I have serious heartburn with is barring youth members who have achieved a similar level of skill development, and if anything, greater maturity, from being allowed to compete for entrance to the Order. As I've said in the women as camp staff threads: We have young women serving our summer camps who are far more dedicating to the Aims of Scouting (indeed, the Methods) than many of the 13 year olds who will get their Brotherhood their second year and never be seen by Order again. What do we do to recognize those women? Jack Diddly. Don't throw the "But they get paid" argument at me either. We all know a young person can gross/net more per week in the summer working fulltime at Mickey D's. We do not honor their altruism. Ideals Method, anyone? Hier Ich Stehe.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

2) My opinion, NO. It does not account for Venturing in any way, shape, or form. CAVEAT: Boy Scouts, who are brothers, may continue their membership if they step up to Venturing. - Venturers cannot be elected to candidacy, ergo: Female Venturers are ineligible for youth membership in the Order. Need I say more?

Two old and gold rules: Forgiveness is usually better than permission. Be careful what you ask for, you may well get it. For those who don't remember, everyone whined about the definition of an "Active Scout" for Advancement. We got one. Didn't make people very happy, did it? If you ask to be bound up by policy, in my experience, bureaucracy will provide you that binding ... and then you're really stuck. To close, to quote the old military radio prowords, "I say again:" Forgiveness is usually better than permission. Be careful what you ask for, you may well get it.

I wear my Eagle Dad pin on my WB name leather, and I took that idea from a Council Commissioner who did the same ... for his kids and the kids he mentored.

A Scout is Friendly and Courteous. The lead member of this E-team, in coordinating in advance with the SPL and/or SM, should have asked such questions. When you represent Boy Scouting vice your Troop, there is a higher bar. OTOH, the SM should have talked quietly with the Chapter Adviser in real time, maybe even inviting the youth members to return some other day with good cheer. No one was right in this case.

Scouting's job is not to inculcate the values we hold highly. Our job is to reinforce those values. The Scouts' own family is the first line of defense. Hillary, nearly 20 years ago, didn't quite get it right: She said "It takes a village to raise a child." That one little word ... a ... is the weak link. It takes THE VILLAGE: Parents, extended family, church, civic groups, school (in about that order IMNSHO). We fall under civic groups.

My comments: Yes, 5 is the magic number, each year, when you drop your signed recharter packet at council. Now, let's get away from paperwork, and ask about program: - You have 1 Patrol. So you have Patrol Leader. The Patrol needs a Quartermaster to keep the equipment, so if he's 1st Class or above, make him a Troop QM for POR time. You also need a scribe to help with the paperwork. Beyond that, let's not worry about leadership right now. - Do you have PROGRAM? Are the boys selecting a place where they want to camp each month? Are they selecting a theme for that campout (we want to bicycle to work on Cycling MB, we want to swim, we want to hike in and out)? If they are selecting a theme, are they then each taking responsibility for a subject area and training each other in skills (hike ... shoes and sox, managing weight of the backpack, cooking tasty food yet with minimum weight and earth impact)? - Is the PROGRAM year round? At the Boy Scout level, it should be. - You're almost certainly rural. Are you working to do things boys like (while Scouts cannot hunt, doing a range weekend camp and improving their skills on rifle and shotgun is probably way cool)? - Is the SM working to mentor the PL, and the rest of the adults back away, or are the adults doing the teaching etc? It's far easier to keep an interested boy than it is to bring a new one off the street. If your program is varied and interesting, the recruiting will take care of itself.

Shortridge, I can't speak for the gentle furry fuzzy critter that tastes like chicken (I used to be an Owl, after all, and Beavers TASTE LIKE CHICKEN ), but to me the policy documents are the various source documents. They are all policy. G2SS is a compendium, a secondary document. For most of us in units, it's probably as far as we need go. Even so, in each case where it declares policy, it's doing so on the authority of some other BSA document. That make sense?

OK. First, depending on the airport, just about anything bigger than a mounted razor blade is subject to TSA confiscation. I've lost two Swiss Army knives and two pocketknives that way. So, the operating rule is: Don't carry a knife if you're going past the security barrier. Second, I don't know about your school district, but in my neck of the woods, a good way for a kid to get suspended for a week (or for an adult to be banished from the property) is to be caught with a blade...ANY BLADE...on school property. Your municipality and/or school district may and probably does have different rules. So, now that we are past that ... the question is what is the Scout going to use the knife for during his camp? To my 1 kilobyte of flesh and blood memory, he should match the tool to the purpose. I hope the above makes sense. BTW, as stated by my Council Director of Support Services, boldface in G2SS is policy and the Council expects volunteers to follow it. Non-boldface is "best practices" and Council expects the reasonable volunteer to follow it.

I know an Assistant District Commissioner who wears the Cub Scout Den Mother's uniform. If you like it, wear it!

Baden, Read the comments of WAKWIB ... who is from my District.

Welcome to the Forums, original poster. (edited to maintain anonymity by request - packsaddle) As a practical matter ... It's not the best practice to have a CC/CM in the same family (spouses). I also feel that way about CC/Treasurer or CM/Treasurer. No matter how good the books are kept, you risk someone accusing... Sad, but too often true. I think you need, sooner than later, to decide if you want to be a DL or the CC. The problem is come whenever you recharter next, ScoutNet will force your unit to have a DL for your boys Den, and it will force your Pack to have a CC. Here's the rub: It errors out if one person has more than one registered Scouting position in the same unit. Now, you can be an ADL to your son (off the books), or you can be Ass't Chairman (off the books), so there's more than one way to do all the things you want to do as a grownup. That said, Scouting is a fairly long trail. If your son enjoys it, you may be on the trail for a decade or longer. Do you want to burn out early? Have fun... KISMIF. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

In the Kansas City area, I can assure you that "Eagle Scout" and "______(paint responsibility) in the Tribe of Mic-o-Say" move your resume to the front of the queue, both for initial screening and for interview selection. I have seen it happen.

I will say this: 4 years ago, my son met the man who is now his major professor at the University of Missouri. The good Doctor asked my son to talk about who he was. Son started, as all do, cataloging the basic things, but when he got to Eagle Scout, the professor looked up, and the conversation turned on a dime. Long story short: Before that hour was done, my son was invited to his scholarship audition at the University of Missouri School of Music. "I can make even OK musicians into pretty damn good musicians; but I cannot and will not work with people who are not 'good people.' Eagle and Gold matter."

Several comments: Gotta agree with Barry (eagledad and sherminator). They say it better than I. I've had a couple quiet talks with Scouts. They were, in turn, 17 and 17 1/2. I simply said three things: - In the eyes of the law, and the eyes of Boy Scouting, you're an adult on your 18th birthday. - I noted Personal Fitness takes a bare minimum of 85 days, Personal Management 92 days, and Family Life 91 days (I assume in each case the Scout met with the Counselor to close out the badge). If they didn't start them on time, there were other activities and adventures to pursue, but the Eagle trail exits to the trailhead. - The Troop would support them, but they had to want to invest the effort. In many other activities as adults, we give fair notice of the deadline. That's why.

There is a reason all the leadership and management theory I've ever read, be it from industry or the Armed Forces, says 5-7 is the right size for 1 person to supervise. 8 was based on 1 leader and (shock) seven followers. Options: - Split the den. - Get at least two assistants and a Den chief. - Do nothing, and watch some kids walk away.

This is where a good relationship between Troop and Chartered Partner is worth its weight in gold. The COR goes to the District Chair and asks him what's the lack of planning about... Of course, if you have a paper COR, you can't get this kind of support.

Lest we all forget, the SE is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in a Council. That's why he's supreme chief of the fire, outranking the Lodge Chief.