John-in-KC

On 12/4/2020 at 10:56 AM, gpurlee said:

 We are clearly heading into a tipping point, probably more rapidly than most of us would have anticipated. This is a route to attempt to deal with the recommendations by conference attorneys that churches distance themselves from Boy Scouting. The irony here is that the program is probably the safest it has been in the past fifty years. 

Safe for the youth is minimal risk for harrassment or assault.   Safe for the Chartered Partner is **no** risk of losing money or assets by hosting an activity.  That’s all the more true when you think of local non profits, which tend to have few $$$ reserves. 

@ThenNow, I understand what you’re saying.  Something serious, sexually, happened to you as a youth member.  
 

I was lucky.  My Pack, Troop and Post were led by good people, and my parents were involved.  I can only have sorrow for your experience. As for your personal pain, I pray you are or were in counseling to help it.  In my own life pains (wholly different from sexual abuse) my doc has helped me. 
 

thank you for opening up. 

On 11/26/2020 at 2:51 PM, TAHAWK said:

Hard for some Christians to grasp. but Buddhists are literally atheists - persons who do not believe in a creator deity of any kind . They have been members of the BSA since at least 1926, and their religious awards are recognized by BSA.

To return to the question, Buddhism is recognized by WOSM and BSA as a faith movement, including youth emblems and adult awards. 

36 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

 

When I was a DE (Back in the 80's) there was a issue in one of the districts.  None of the families wanted to formally involved the police.  The CO (a church) did not want the police formally involved.  As there was not a required reporter laws NOR shield protections laws, if we (the council) had called the police, that could have opened us up to slander issues.  We terminated the alleged abuser's membership in the BSA, put his name in the file, and that was all we could legally and legitimately do AT THAT TIME.

Have you been interested enough to determine if the particular youth members filed claims?

2 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Where does one find published telephone numbers for BSA National managers? 

The BSA safety guy used to come here, which  I found educational, but it's fair to say he was given a hard time.  He has not been around, I think, since the squirt gun rule was adopted.

@RichardBourleon is indeed still around. He posted in the last two months c

On 11/24/2020 at 2:40 PM, David CO said:

I can think of one.  Many Chartered Organizations wouldn't like it.  My CO wouldn't like it at all. 

 

Chartered Partners are also under legal pressure from their insurers, and not from the Scouting lawsuits. 18 is the legal age of adulthood. Damn few activities will allow the intermix of adults and children by the law, and most of them have good attorneys to consult. The two that come to mind are public school districts and post secondary institutions. 

Reduce the size of the pod. Go for patrol activities. Let the adults be within earshot but outside the activity area. 

There’s a reason I don’t bother with Bezos, Inc, for my news. He should stick to data warehousing and fulfillment. 

On 11/21/2020 at 11:33 AM, skeptic said:

I know I am barking at the moon, but at least it takes it out of my craw for the moment.  Reality is that in our current society there is no win/win, only uneven retribution for the sake of retribution and grudges.

I know an Eagle Scout, a Vigil Honor (from youth membership) of the Order.  He was, in adulthood, a pedophile, convicted in US District Court. At the time, he was an ASM, a scout camp commissioner, and a camp master. Let us not deny we had wolves amongst us, sadly. 
 

Having fixed my post, I deleted your request. 

On 11/19/2020 at 7:49 PM, Eagle1993 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/11/19/boy-scouts-bankruptcy-abuse/

Talking with my wife tonight … (she is fairly liberal so would generally lean against large organizations) ...

• She is questioning why their parents didn't do anything if it was that severe.  

I know someone very precious to me. In the 1960s, a grandfather raped this person. Indeed, all the siblings got raped.  

They didn’t tell the parents. Why?  They firmly believed they’d be accused of lying.

Now, Dad is 90, and the last standing. All have sworn not to tell him.  

I understand the peers of my era. 
 

Just a reminder,

our bankruptcy is because BSA waited way too long to install hearty youth protection from abuse.  Many of us (myself included) used to laugh at that … then a co worker of mine, an Eagle Scout and Vigil Honor member, got to visit Club Fed for child pedophilia.  I remember calling the Council Director of Support Services as the word of the arrest (it was at work and public) filtered through our workforce.  When I got him, he had been tipped off by the US Attorney, and was already preparing the severance letter.

I've never laughed about YP since.

A hike or a bike ride are both great ideas.

Do keep in mind temps are dropping below freezing at night, thus beginning the winter cycle, as far South as Kansas City to St Louis.  Be prepared

46 minutes ago, yknot said:

The Methodist church makes out OK but the AME church or VFW down the street does not? Whose moral responsibility is it to tell them to file by Nov. 16?

 

 

I live here in Kansas City, and used to know a National VFW player in their youth serving support.  Regrettably he has since passed, but I think you'll find VFW National will be informing VFW local Posts.  Cannot speak for other organizations.

50 minutes ago, yknot said:

I just saw this article: 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-22/boy-scouts-sexual-abuse-claims-bankruptcy

Not much new but speculation in this article ups the potential payout to 3 billion -- double the 1.4 billion estimate I've seen elsewhere. 

 

$3B would pretty much force complete liquidation, to include the Councils.  
I suspect the victims would then receive pennies on the dollar for their claims. 

A Scouter is Thrifty?

So, was BSA’s data part of the SSN and bank info taken?

How can we make something so simple, so complicated?

PDF the forms of the entire troop, Scouts and Scouters.  
Put them in a folder, then zip the folder with a passcode.
Put it on selected Scouters smartphones for the camp out. 
At the end of camp, have the Scouters delete the zip file. 

Problem, solved. 

Except that if the Corporation is liquidating, there IS no corporation to hold on to said IP. 

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Here's a paradigm shift for you...

Hire a Scoutmaster who mentors young people to create and run a damn good program...

Yes

I had just gone to law.cornell.edu to search that. 🙂

On 9/10/2020 at 11:10 AM, Cburkhardt said:

If National gets through reorganization, it will retain the IP as a core property for future operations.  If National is liquidated, the IP will be sold in bankruptcy like all of the other assets.  A group of going-forward councils that have survived and received individual third party discharges could bid.   Other purchasers could outbid a council group, so there is no guarantee that a Scouting-related group would be in control of it.  

This is the real answer. Unless the Court specifies a bidding structure, the BSA IP, in liquidation, could go anywhere.

There won’t be 270 councils when the bankruptcy is discharged.  There’ll be somewhere between 150-250. The rest will, as the scenario describes, merge or liquidate.  
 

The IP depends on folks to write and maintain it.  I don’t care if we are talking training content or the software. Who will do this, and how will they be compensated?

I ask this question in all seriousness. 

Then you’re going to need content creators. You’re going to have to set standards for quality of production. 
“The laborer is worthy of his wage.”  You’re going to have to have a compensation plan. 
 

lots of software becomes vapor ware between vision and deployment.  Your task is not to become vapor ware. 

Let me be blunt

Before I invest, I’d want to see a business plan

id want to see architecture and a technical approach

I’d want to see a Flexibility plan ... how can you adapt your software on the fly if your prime supported business (BSA) changes its approach to advancement in its programs.

I’d want to see scalability to other youth serving programs.  

You’re entering a market that already has a population. This isn’t 2000, when Troopmaster was new. 

Good luck and good hunting. 

The National Council forgot this, but it’s jobs should be

- Develop program and training materials for youth and adults.

- Develop and implement a compliance system (chartering, with further compliance at the council level)

- Manage recordkeeping. 

- Develop and provide professional service training to Councils.

Just one comment.   As I understand matters, a major portion of WOSMs funding comes from BSA. If Big BSA liquidates, WOSM will welcome any partner that puts cash in its coffers. 
 

Anyone able to say otherwise?

The Last Frontier Council office in Lawton is your right starting place.  You don’t mention a chartered partner. Is there one? That’s the civic organization that wants to sponsor scouting in your community. 
 

Do you have five kids and five adults who want to be part of the game with a purpose?

@Eagledad (Barry), you’re up in the City. @SR540Beaver, you too. Can you guys help?