John-in-KC

I'm a Cub Grub guy at my district DC; second year at that task (three years before that as the wood guy).

Last year I did Dutch oven cobblers and hot dogs.

Dutch oven cobblers work! I'm going to do them again this year.

I'm also going to do twist. I'm going to do it under an austere environment though... nonfat dry milk, bisquik, and YOU JUST GAVE ME AN IDEA.... forget the spoons and the cut down milk jugs as mixing bowls ... I'm going to have parents/cubs measure mix into gallon plastic bags, add water, knead in the bag, turn out and twist onto the sticks!!!

THANKS Shell!!!!

YIS John

Ed,

Thanks for following up on my "Approved" to Bob White.

As far as approval goes, here's my connotation:

If the Troop is doing a collective service project, then the Scoutmaster has bought into the PLC's request, thus no individual Scout needs to ask "May this count please?"

If a Patrol is doing a service project, it's reasonable to think the PL has talked to the SPL and the SM, thus no individual in the patrol needs to ask "May this count please?"

Sometimes a boy will hear of a project outside a Troop. My son and I worship outside our physical scouting District. We've helped on a couple of Eagle projects done by his friends in our church. I've encouraged my son to consult with his PL/SPL/SM before going out on the project, to qualify the hours as counting ... but I also encourage him to do the work even if it doesn't count.

Sometimes an opportunity will present itself to the Troop. In that case, the COR or the Commitee may give guidance to the Program Officer (SM) on a project that will count.

"The more you give, the more you will get back"

John

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Well, Bob,

The requirement says: APPROVED. Thus, the SM is the policymaker.

The CONCEPT, though, is "The more you give, the more you will get back." A SM who does not look at each case of service to see how it fits on its merits is a fool.

I counsel PRAY's God and Country series. To achieve the God and Church award (and thus the religious knot), the service hour requirement is 10 hours (with 10 hours additional service in worship). I'm fairly generous in my interpretation, with my main question: How does this better the community you live in?

OTOH, my CHURCH, in confirmation, requires 30 hours community service of its confirmands. This service MAY NOT BE DONE in the church building. But, our Pastor counted hours a young man served as J-staff at district Cub Scout Day Camp.

I don't know about other Councils/Districts, but in ours, all staff, both adult and junior, is all-volunteer. Our big paycheck is two staff t-shirts.

"The more you give, the more you will get back"

John

A few years back a good friend of mine did his "Doctor of Commissioner Service" thesis.

He concluded, after surveying units and evaluating National program materials, that a good round number of Scouts in a Troop is about 45. That number fills the leadership positions without having Scouts double up, and allows room for advancement.

For FOG ... there are activities the G2SS restricts to chartered Varsity teams OR Venturing crews, and at least one activity (handgun shooting) restricted SOLELY to Crews.

YIS John

Cubs Rgr,

I would hope your son listened to what the election team said when they began their work of supporting your Troop's election.

Here's what my local lodge posts on its portion of the Council website as the purpose of the Order:

~~~~~~

The purpose of the Order of the Arrow is fourfold:

To recognize those Scout campers who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives.

To develop and maintain camping traditions and spirit.

To promote Scout camping

To crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others

~~~~~

Here's a little history, again, publicly available:

~~~~~

Dr. E. Urner Goodman and Carroll A. Edson founded the Order of the Arrow (OA) in 1915 at Treasure Island Camp, of the Philadelphia Council, Boy Scouts of America. It became an offical progam experiment in 1922 and was approved as part of the Scouting program in 1934.

In 1948, the OA was recognized as the BSA's national brotherhood of honor campers and became an offical part of the national camping program of the Boy Scouts of America.

~~~~~~~~~

Beyond this, he'll have to wait for his Ordeal, just as those of us who are Arrowmen had to wait for our Ordeals.

I assure you the result will be worth it.

YIS John

Here's one several of our Scouts are doing...

World War II and Korean veterans are in the last stages of their passing. Vietnam Veterans are approaching 60. Desert Storm vets are now from 30-60 depending on their age when they deployed.

The Library of Congress is collecting oral histories of Veterans. In our case, we're chartered by a VFW post, so the project was to collect WWII member oral histories. Our candidate led a team of Scouts and Scouters in collecting the histories, videotaping them (and ripping the videos to Mpegs on CD-ROMS), scanning significant personal documents, and then furnishing one set to the Post and the other to the Libary of Congress.

Here is the LOC url for the project:

http://www.loc.gov/folklife/vets/

BTW, the first Scout that did this now has his Gold Palm...

YIS John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

A few years back, we were a start-up Troop. We had NO third year or beyond campers. None. Zero. Long story. Our second-year campers had a full day being off in buddy pairs.

Our Tenderfeet campers, by default, received escort ... usually by 2d year Dads (same as someone else said ... Scouts don't want their own parents following close ... )

Now, we've got 8 or 9 boys going back for their fifth year, and several more for their fourth. Herding Tenderfeet will be off the list of adult tasks ... but checking hydration is definitely ON the list.

YIS John

Gidget,

As an Arrowman (albeit long removed from my youth), may I offer some suggestions:

1) Visit with the Chapter Advisor first. He or she reports to the District camping committee, as do you. Enlist him or her into your campaign.

2) For Arrowmen 14 and older, offer them J-staff positions. If you have any 13 year old Arrowmen, offer them Den Chief positions with their registration and fees underwritten by the District. Amazing what a kid will do for free T-shirts. Consider asking the Cub Grub guy or gal to throw a "loaded baked potato" lunch for them one day during the DC week.

3) While you are offering them J-staff slots, remember some of them will want to go on J-staff at the Resident Camps in their 15th and 16th summers (and beyond). Make sure that they know you will give them references.

4) Remember, you are not asking the District OA leadership ... you are asking, through them, for the OATRs to canvass their Troops and look for Scouts willing to do this!

5) Make sure you have support materials for them. Asking them to go in without information and support is a non-starter for any young man.

6) Consider picking up the Public Speaking Merit Badge on your own counseling list. Requirement 2 would be their pitch in your behalf.

7) When it's a win-win for the Arrowmen and you, you'll find their willingness to visit their old Packs is greater.

YIS John

Cub Grub guy for my district DC

Handgun shooting is reserved to Venturers only.

From G2SS...

"Handguns (Venturers only)

"The following guidelines relate to the use of handguns within the program of the Boy Scouts of America.

(in boldface)

"Handgun use is limited to the Venturing program only."

Another...

(in boldface) "Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual is unacceptable. However, law enforcement departments and agencies using firearms in standard officer/agent training may use their training agenda when accompanied with appropriate safety equipment in the Law Enforcement Venturing program."

Here's one where the Venturer must be cross-registered back to the troop:

(in boldface) "All youth registered in Venturing are eligible to participate in crew, district, council, and national Venturing activities as well as national high-adventure programs and world jamborees. Venturers are eligible to participate in Boy Scout resident camp, but they must be multiple-registered with a Boy Scout troop and attending with the troop."

SCUBA is restricted to ***Varsity*** element of Boy Scouts or Venturing program. As I read this one you have to establish a Varsity team, not just have kids 14 and over:

(in boldface) "Scuba training programs may be a part of Varsity or Venturing activities for participants who are 14 years of ago or older. Members who meet the age requirement and are properly certified may participate in group dives under the supervision of a responsible adult who is currently certified as a dive master, assistant instructor, or any higher rating from NAUI, PADI, or SSI. Student divers must be under the supervision of a currently certified NAUI, PADI, or SSI instructor. No exceptions to the BSA age requirement are permitted. Scouts and Venturers with a junior diver certification may dive only when accompanied by a buddy who is a certified open-water diver at least 18 years old."

Bob White wrote:

"The only requirements that count of course, are ones in a published Merit Badge book. On-line information amy seem handy but it is not official. The Scout or the Counselor must have a BSA publication with the set of requirements that the scout is using."

Huh?

Unless you are considering BSA Requirements a Merit Badge book ...

(I know neither add to nor take from btw.)

Common sense tells me the most recent basic copyright date between a MB pamphlet and the BSA requirements will determine which has most recent requirements set. Given that BSA revises Requirements annually, though, I would think Program and Supply Divisions will get those out before they can write an updated pamphlet...

Just musings

YIS John

Bob,

What are your thoughts about the Venture Patrols cross-registering as Venturers?

The first benefit I see is the access to activities given by the Guide to Safe Scouting. Venture patrols, if I understand policy, are still Boy Scouts for GSS purposes.

Thanks for the input in advance.

John

FOG,

I won't bet against you, but I will also bet he deals with ...

Tenderfeet who are homesick on their first weekend out.

the parent who buys a 30 degree bag in an area with -10 winters

the boy who "just doesn't understand why" the District Advancement committee won't pass his Eagle project without the SM signature.

John

Philmont Director of Programs was our guest speaker at Council Commissioner college last weekend.

Confirmed there are openings at the Double H yet this summer.

Since this is year 1 for the property, the staff member is going out for the entire trek for a reason: He'll be on GPS, and be mapping tentative trails for the future.

There are some indicators of program coming. The Philmont PD said they want to put in a modern black powder shooting facility.

Hope this helps.

YIS John

Nor am I a professional, nor do I play one on TV either.

Our Council Director of Program is a Scoutmaster. I've seen his Troop in the field. He knows the challenges we have.

John

I'm a unit advancement coordinator, and I counsel 4 merit badges. In point of fact, I just went out to one of the unofficial merit badge web sites ... he has data from the 2002 book online for Personal Management.

My personal wish is that BSA Supply Division would take the BSA Requirements book and just place it online. There is no reason for the advancement requirements to be a profit center.

My thoughts. Others may have different thoughts

YIS John

This is my delurk.

To Dan and all: There are guidelines and helps for each position of responsibility in the unit JLT Scoutmaster program package.

In that package, the only POR that reads as though there is a BSA policy requirement is the JASM ... it seems to have an age floor of 16 years.

I can think of a couple of good guidelines for both SPL and ASPLs:

Parental commitment to the boy for his term of office. I've seen what happens when a young man says "I want this POR" and his parents say "You can take it, but you have (insert time consuming activity here) we expect you to do." ALLOWING boys room to succeed or fail is one thing. SETTING A BOY UP for failure is different, and imo wrong.

Commitment to his term of office. I've seen a young man take SPL, then 4 weeks later, join a Crew (not affiliated with our troop). In this same case, I saw the ASPL become the SPL ... and the ASPL was rarely on time, even more rarely was in ANY uniform let alone the correct uniform, and missed his own PLCs.

What was it about the methods of Scouting?? The Scout Law??? Trustworthy, Loyal, and Helpful??? Aren't those elements of the Law enhanced by service in the Positions of Responsibility?

My thoughts. Others will have different thoughts.

YIS John