John-in-KC

Contact Bemidji Woolen Mills, the supplier for Northern Tier. They buy buttons from Woolrich for the Northern Tier version of the red woolen shirt-jac. URL is: http://www.bemidjiwoolenmills.com/ Mr Bill Batchelder often answers the phone himself. Good people! That said, I cannot speak for him that he'll sell buttons independently...

Robert, Welcome to the campfire. What form of Field Sports certification are you seeking? NCS is the right level if you're going to be the man for your Council's summer camp, or you are going to certify individual ranges. OTOH, if you are going to simply run a range underneath a reservation field sports director, your Council or a neighboring Council may have the resources to certify you. Have you asked your council's professional in charge of Scout Camp (or cub DAy Camps) yet? YIS

Beavah, That post got to a lot of what I was saying. Thanks.

I think we don't have a lot of the information here, but in general, the measured responses give a good framework. First of all, I wonder where the peer pressure to conform on the good side of things is in this unit? Is the informal leadership network (older Scouts) supporting the formal one (SPL+PLC and SM)? If not, why not? Next, if a particular young man is a consistent challenge to leadership, maybe he needs to have his parent be part of the adult leadership on weekends. As a Dad, I enjoyed the trips I made with my son. As a DAD, I am very proud that my son now sees me when he leaves for Scout camp on Sunday, and says "See you at Ceremony Night." When I get there, he and his near young-adult peers are on top of the world, having fun. If I HAD to be there, because he was a hard-case, I'd be a bit upset over his conduct managing my time, and the parent-child talks would happen. How many adults are going out with this Troop? How often? Does it have enough coverage that the SM can let an ASM be in charge of a camp at least once a year, or are we approaching burn-out? Finally, there are consequences a SM can give a youth, but they tend to be "going forward," not "looking backward." If the young man is not performing in his POR (and if he's a handful at camp I'd like to see his performance in his POR), the time doesn't have to be certified for the next rank. I've noticed as a unit advancement coordinator that ScoutNet is pretty picky; I've been unable to get a merit badge miscoded off a young man's records in 3 years ... even after submitting an Advancement Report saying "This badge was never awarded this boy, please remove it!" This is a time where the UC needs to take a proper inventory of the unit, and truly "Be the unit's Scouting friend."

With malice aforethought I upgraded my son from the standard Eagle presentation kit to the Sterling silver kit. That included the Eagle Mom and Dads oval pins. That was last September I just went to Scoutstuff, both Mom and Dad ovals are available in ordainary and Sterling as separate items. Son asked for 2 extra Mentor pins (he had lots of help). He got them , and used them

I think every Scouter needs to look at a "prank" with a filter of three questions: - Does the activity knowingly and inappropriately hazard a Scouts' safety? (bed on the roof) IF YES, then SPL, Scoutmaster or professional service involvement is called for. - Was the activity knowingly and inappropriately designed to make a Scout uncomfortable about his sexuality? IF YES, then Scoutmaster or professional service involvement is called for. - Does/did activty unknowingly cause a Scout embarrassment or humiliation? IF YES, then SPL and Scoutmaster involvement is called for. Remember a couple of key points from our YP training: - Our Professionals have statutory obligations to report under most State law. If they get involved, it's going to escalate. - If the Scout calls Mom (or vice versa) and says "Billy showed me his..." or "The boys put my bed on top of the leaders cabin" and she calls the DE, it's out of our hands as volunteers. I like what someone posted about "permission is better than forgiveness". I also see a learning opportunity by SPL and/or SM to reinforce values of Scout Oath and Law (Is that really being Friendly, Jack?).

I submit: IF the Director, PD, and Area heads are looking at the Wolf, Bear, and Webelos Handbooks... THEN virtually any activity on the Day Camp schedule will crosswalk into the age-appropriate advancement plan. For several years I was wood master for our District. I looked at the requirements and determined what could be signed off by Akela as a result of doing the wood project. For a couple more years I was grubmaster for our District. Ditto. You're already asking Scouters, many of whom give up a 40 hour workweek to serve our Program, to give up more time for a separate Webelos program. I'm delighted you have more adult volunteers in your district than we do in ours! As Barry says, I love this Scouting stuff.

Considering what I've seen these days go for dining awnings (the almost 1 car garage canvas and metal things), I can live with the requirement as it is. I think I can counsel to the intent without adding or deleting

I come from the other perspective, a catholic parish (yes, small c) with close communion. Our job as Scouters is to promote that the young men have a faith corner in their lives. It is NOT to evangelize/prosletyize. If the young men, and their knowledge of Holy Scripture, and their understanding says "avoid this table," then a little support from an adult is a blessing to them in their walk with God. Baden ... good for you!

Eamonn, The five young men who went through Eagle COH together with my son asked the Troops Grandpa-in-Residence to give the charge. He was an Eagle himself. They chose not to take the Eagle Oath. What does OJ want?

Pete, ROTFL!!!!! Lisa, Let us know how your vision finds itself! John

I grabbed this off US Scouts. Thanks to whoever there scrubs BSA Requirements. Of course, you can (and should) also look at the totality of BSA Requirements for changes to the Advancement program: For the camping MB: Changes were made to requirements 3 and 9a. The changes to the requirements read as follows: 3. Make a written plan for an overnight trek and show how to get to your camping spot using a topographical map and compass OR a topographical map and a GPS receiver. 9a. Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent. ~~~~~ The last at least answers some of the questions of 20 days and nights. Note the explicity "Scouting activity" element. url is: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/mb/mb001.html YIS John

I would not just second Trevorum's idea, I'd say MORE THAN ONE!! Lisa's idea (food) is good as well. Is there a kid on this planet who does not like dessert?

Like many here, I have an active HSer. At this moment, he's at an honor band weekend at a state university. The last two Crew meetings for him got pre-empted: School pep band is on the grading plan, and school trumps Scouting. I think with the way teen lives are, we have to look at how we plan activities: IF we plan linearly or sequentially, I think we may be planning to fail, because many of our young people cannot get to each and every step the only night it's offered. If we plan moving laterally, with a couple of meetings devoted to doing a task, and we lengthen out planning cycles for anything other than the big summer shows, we may have some more success. My thoughts.

Lisa, First and foremost, there is working not being done in Scouting for the lack of volunteers. I promise you, you will find a rewarding niche. There are many good suggestions here. As you point out, a Unit Commissioner is only as good as his or her own commitment, passion, knowledge, and ability to observe, listen and offer feedback. I'd say have a talk with your District Commissioner. See what he wants and expects. He's the lead volunteer for program support; if he's happy with what he has, avoid, if he's wanting to energize his program, help. Digging in on a Pack that doesn't have a core of committed volunteers is a good idea as well. Are there Scoutreach units needing leadership? Are there teens and young adults who'd benefit from Venturing? Does counseling religious awards call you? Take your time, look around. Your Scouting hour a week will find you ;-) John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

gwd, Please, please, please, do not follow the tradition of the other Troop in town (I think you're not, but it's a point worth making to the broader forum here): Den Chiefs out serving the "younger and weaker" are serving their Troop as well as their Pack and Den. They deserve attendance credit in the Troop if their Den Chiefing conflicts with Troop meeting. AFAIAC, the SPL should have someone making sure these young men are in the loop for campouts and other opportunities. That way, they get to give service, are doing a POR on the trail to Eagle, and get to have fun with their own peers. One comment you should make to the Cubmasters and Den Leaders when you furnish Den Chiefs, assuming they are doing good work: This is a "back scratching" relationship. If our Troop furnishes good support, we think it's reasonable you will influence families to join our Troop. BTW, what Hunt said about making sure your youth are welcoming and including when folks come visiting is a good idea (why do I suspect they already do this? ). YIS

PeteM tried to say: "...he will be told to leave the troop as well as the scouting program with no chance for reinstatement." I really, truly hope Pete, that you are actively discussing this issue with your COR and your Unit Commissioner. YOUR UNIT DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT OR PRIVILEGE TO REVOKE A YOUTH MEMBERSHIP IN THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA. That is reserved solely to the local Council. From my experience, it's for the most egregious of violations, including YP and improprieties with funds. You may: 1) Ask a Scout to leave your unit. That's it. If you refuse to surrender his records to a gaining Troop, that unit can recover at least his last rank from ScoutNet. Tread with care. Your Troop Committee may be the ones finding themselves in hot water with the local Council. By the way, if you ask them to leave the unit, you also get to refund their pro-rata share of unit dues and fees.

I will echo what Eagle-Pete, Lisa, and Fuzzy Bear said! As for the lack of training available? This is an issue your COR should be asking for an on the record response from your DE or SE. Part of the Charter Agreement is that Local Council WILL PROVIDE TRAINING SUPPORT. This is cut and dried. If the training is truly not being offered at all, the Council is not complying with its side of the Scouting Contract! Remember the other part, too: It's not just the training, it's the proper use of the training going forward!

It's probably unofficial to BSA. Does GSUSA use square knots for their leader uniforms? I would hope there is a certain level of mutual adult recognition. I've seen young ladies earn their Gold and they are investing as much effort as my son did with his Eagle. Hope is the keyword. BSA doesn't, so far as I know, cross-fertilize recognition with GSUSA. Even so, what's the worst that can happen? A Uniform Pharisee whimpers. Considering all the other unofficial knots that are out there, I'd say wear it. It's legitimate hard work from your youth!

SR540Beaver wrote, in part: On the staff I served last fall, we discussed it and made a joint decision to wear stripped uniforms for our course. The staff for the course I took in 2005 used stripped uniforms. The SPL of that course, who is the CD this year, asked his (2007)staff, they are also going stripped uniforms. WHY? Well ... What happens when you have a student with AOL, Eagle, Youth religious award, adult religious award, the District AOM, the Silver Beaver, James West award, and a Commissioner's Arrowhead encounter a TG who has only a Cub Den Leader Award on their shirt? Possibly, a challenge to the staffer's credibility. YES, there are still Scouters out there who haven't done WB. Isn't the stripped uniform intimidating? Well, what about the staffer who has five ROWs of knots? He/she can be intimidating as well. It's a double edged sword, no matter how a CD and his staff decide.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I disagree with Ed as regards Eagle Palms. As I understand it, the object of the "Demonstrate Leadership" is to show THE WHOLE MAN, the one from whom we expect "Scout Spirit" ... in other words, away from the Troop. I want to see Eagles earning palms taking wing away from Scouting and showing leadership in the field!

ScoutLdr is right, but why are adults talking about this decision without the boys being there? gwd: Get input from the youth. Since they are putting den chiefs into the field, the flow may yet start ... perhaps not this recruiting season. There's nothing wrong with a small Troop, but it'd be a good thing to get them to commit to the trail to Eagle. Next, have your Scouts contact the Webs ... especially the ones who are looking at dropping Scouting. Let them talk about the fun they're having. Beyond that, talk to the your Chartered Partner... keep them in the loop.

We are assuming, probably with 99% certainty, this Cub does not have special needs. We need to remind all that if a Cub has special needs, his family and unit leaders need to get with their Council. Special Needs age and advancement procedures have much different rules. This is even more true when we're talking emotional/mental special needs over physical special needs.

What Lisa said. For all the folks in your den, including the Wolf, his parents, and the other Cubs: a gentle story about the race as opposed to the journey would be in order. We want these young men around for many years. If they drink deeply of the well that has Scouting, we'll have some great young folk when they're ready to turn 18 and start taking their stations in life.

Smart Wool: https://www.smartwool.com/default.cfm REI (Recreational Equipment, Incorporated) has them. http://www.rei.com Cabela's has them too http://www.cabelas.com Personally, I prefer REI to Cabelas , but I use both. Specialty backpacking stores should have them as well. Michelle, you and GB are both right about growth. I'd buy about 3 months out, and then have nephew break them in with alternate day wear for school and play. Get him used to walking. Get his legs developed for both strength and endurance. Lots of walking, lots of weekend walking under load. The stronger his legs are, the better off he'll be Oh... get him a digital camera. The memories will be a lifetime! YIS John