John-in-KC

It provides a permanent fundraising facility for a struggling area non-profit...

Oak Tree, In Christianity, one key element of doctrine is "Scripture checks Scripture." As Beavah has noted time and again, the writer-editors at National do not always cross-check program materials. I'd like to know how many Districts/Councils are out there without a Sea Scouting Ship, which have submitted a Quartermaster award on a non Sea-Scouting Venturer??? More importantly, I wonder if the National Office caught those submissions and returned them...?

CCrumpton, Lots of good resources and advice here. I'll add my two cents. 1) Get ahold of your Chartered Partner. Assuming the former leaders you described are as noxious as you described, you do not want them returning to your Pack... perhaps ever. COR can correspond with them and declare them "not welcome." COR can also correspond with Council and say "I don't want these folk around my units again... ever." Above IS A JUDGMENT CALL ON YOUR PART, along with the new CC and CM! Think about it, long and hard. From your initial post, I infer the old leaders are unsafe at any speed. 2) Hopefully, your District Roundtable puts on a great program. It gives you, your Den Leaders, and your Committee a month's lead time on the Cubbing Program. If it's at all decent, I encourage your active attendance. Working with other Cub leaders will ramp your skills up faster than any online blogboard! 3) From your BSA membership cards, you have BSA member numbers. Enroll in my scouting at the BSA National Website: https://scoutnet.scouting.org/MyScouting/ (your browser will add a lot of gobbledygook, but that's enough to point you! FAST START training for all elements of the Cub program is available, as is BSA standard youth protection training and Safe Swim Defense/Safety Afloat. 4) Call your UC. Ask him, urgently, for a run at New Leader Essentials (which is NOT online at the moment ) and position specific training for your Den Leaders and you/the CM (NLE is Position specific training for a Pack Committee) 5) Get with the area Troops. Ask for EXPERIENCED, maturing Scouts as Den Chiefs. They can be a huge aid. 5) Finally, Keep It Simple, Make It Fun ... KISMIF. These are 7-10 1/2 year olds. Games, activities, songs, projects ... young boys actually are relatively low maintenance! Have fun with the journey, and keep your sense of humor!!!

GW, That assumes the Pack USES official wheels...

Lisa, Interesting post. I've had more than one Professional tell me with a straight face that the profit from BSA Supply Corporation goes to fund BSA's side of Professional Service insurance and retirement. FScouter, There are other brands than "official Pinewood Derby." They're available at most any Hobby Lobby (chain hobby store, supermarket-sized, here in Flyover Country). There are other brands of outdoor gear. Save opportunities such as Trev laid on the table, or second hand, there are few alternates to Supply Corporation for uniforms. All, - We touch parents/Scouts for National dues and Boys Life. - We touch parents for FOS. - We touch parents/Scouts for campout fees/LT camp fees/PW fees, training fees, spaghetti dinners, and on and on... - We touch parents/Scouts for their uniforms. I've had parents tell me, nay demand of me "quit touching my wallet." To me, the issue is the perceived value of a well-rounded whole young man. If Scouting were the only activity on Billy's plate, it's easy. (In fact, that's how EagleSon did it!). Too often though, Scouting is one of more than a few activities on Billy's plate: Football, soccer, (insert sport/sports here), band, WHATEVER IT TAKES to find where the young person has a skill and develop it. To me, too many parents are looking for an edge for their children for the next stage of life (read vo-tech/college/university). They're not terribly concerned for what will make them better people participating in society when they are 25 or 30 or beyond.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

"So, a scout earning Eagle in 2 1/2 years is very doable." IF he's very motivated! or... If there's a fair bit of 'pencil-whipping' going on...

OGE, 4 months 1C to Star. 6 months Star to Life. 6 months Life to Eagle. That's 16 months. There's the (IIRC) 4 weeks requirement in Fitness for Tenderfoot. That's 17 months. I guess your timeline presumes that all the skills of S-T-2-1 for the absolute minimum model can be learned/evaluated in one month? I'm not bashing, I'm just saying back what I thought I saw you write

prof, That's a great question for Uncle Jay! Have your kid send it to him! www.unclejayexplains.com Here's what wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate As for me, they're a bunch of hack politician poo-bah's who have the key to the smoke-filled room. After all the Party noise about "count every vote!" in the last two election cycles, if they push the nomination from the delegate leader to the other candidate, rest assured the other party will tout that in election negative advertising all Fall...

1) When EagleSon joined his Troop, SM took me aside and we talked for a few cups of coffee. One of the SM's jobs is managing Scouters and non-Scouter parents. 2) With luck, the CC is taking "the burden from the Scoutmaster's shoulders" by doing the expectation management for Scouters who are not ASMs, as well as parents. 3) Scouts ARE children. Some are pre-adolescent, many are adolescent. The ideal is a 100% reliable child. The reality will vary up to 100%. How much back-up communications to parents hinges on what reality looks like in any one unit. Who does the back-up ideally is as BW describes, in reality it may look a bit different. Joe... for now, make sure your Troop Committee is sharing the burden, and that your PLC and Troop Scribe are learning what their responsibilities look like.

Sea Scouting is the one form of "older youth" Scouting which has worked constantly across the years. Because it works, the BSA National Council allowed it "brand identity" as Venturing has ramped up within Irving. For corporate management purposes, Sea Scouting IS Venturing. For certain program purposes, Sea Scouting looks and feels "a bit" different from Venturing. If you look at publications like Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088, Sea Scouting is covered with the overall set of the Venturing program. Does that make sense?

Dugdirt, I agree with Lisa's and Beavah's writings. During that first year, patience is essential. There are ways to share your experience, but if you read the archives here,... many parents end up in a horror story because of how they tried to be agents of change immediately. Listen. Listen closely. Listen to what the SM, ASMs and CC are saying. Catalog it against a day when you can take a front-rank role as a Scouter. Join! It's hard to be an agent of change if you are on the outside. You have skills which can translate as a MB Counselor. You have abilities which can supplement those of someone serving on the Committee now. Join and be part of the Adult Association Method. Be in uniform. I tend to like setting the example quietly, through my actions. Obtain and wear the BSA uniform correctly and proudly. One hint: Thorlo socks hold up better than Supply Division cotton Stay away from your son. Give him room to grow! Let other youth be his teachers. Where you see blatant error, discuss that away from the Troop meeting with the ASM who keeps an eye on the technical skills of Guides and Instructors. Welcome to the forums, we look forward to hearing your tales of your journey through the adult side of Scouting ! John

Our Lodge expects unit leader to have current BSA Class II / III (as appropriate) on hand for each Scout/Scouter participating. Where individuals participate, Lodge expects him/her to have the right physical with his "stuff."

Gotta agree with you there Lisa, on registration. Not voting=no whining! To me, the second greatest ability a President has is to shape the Judiciary with his/her appointments. I have to love how both sides are calling the other Judicial Activists anymore. Is there anyone out there who can read the law for the true Constitutional questions and get on with it?

Maybe the fix to the DRP is Clause 5: "This declaration does not apply to youth, nor to their non-leader-enrolled families, Parents of youth who join must be informed of the Declaration, and that leaders will encourage a duty to God amongst youth members." That makes the DRP - adult explicit for membership - youth wide open, allowing them to explore God. - a guideline for the program overall, making duty to God an explicit part. I don't know if this makes sense or not...

Good morning Lisa, As a Republican watching your side of the aisle, I'm starting to see op-ed pieces and editorial cartoons slashing Hillary for surrendering feminism on the altar of getting elected. I'm also listening to NPR and that group of experts are commenting at how the base is splitting for a race-based decision. I love how the radio talk hosts are bashing McCain over his position on holding prisoners of war. I guess they forget what he went through as a PW of the North Vietnamese... My Dad's a WWII era PW of the Japanese, and he's not thrilled about what we're doing either.

Ahhh, Bob... Nope. Your Ship is not following the BSA National Council Program, as laid forth in a policy document. When a qualifying male Venturer/Sea Scout continues to use the Boy Scout Division rank advancement system (Star, Life, Eagle, Palms), the Crew/Ship must follow the Boy Scout Division advancement policies as set forth in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, BSA Stock 33088. That said, when a Venturer/Sea Scout uses the Venturing award or Sea Scout award/rank advancement system, the Crew/Ship must follow the Venturing Division advancement policies as set forth in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, BSA Stock 33088. Both of these may be found on page 38. A well trained Advisor/Skipper and Crew/Ship Committee, properly following the BSA Progam, knows when to apply which policies and procedures. Or does that Crew/Ship "make stuff up" on the fly?

I hope you never had any of those Marines you didn't want in your neighborhood being your engine, armament, avionics, or hydraulics mechanics GW.

Bob White responded to Beavah with: "The Crew Committee does the bor" Not sure if that is true in Venturing, I'd need to check, but it's not true in Sea Scouting. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You know, Bob, If you attend Venturing Leader Specific Training, you would have the answer on how a Venturer/Sea Scout gets a Boy Scout Division BOR! It's also in the 2007 edition of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, BSA 33088, page 38: "Position of responsibility requirements may be met by the Venturer serving as president, vice president, secretary, or treasurer in his crew, or as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, pursor, or storekeeper in his ship. "The Scoutmaster conference will be conducted by the ADvisor or Skipper. "As the Venturer meets the requirements for the Star and Life ranks, a board of refiew is conducted by the crew or ship committee (emphasis added). The Eagle board of review follows the procedure established by the local council." Bob, are you telling us your Ship is not following established and settled BSA policy as regards Boy Scouting (vice Venturing Awards or Sea Scouting ranks which have crew reviews specified on pp 36-37, or the Sea Scout Quartermaster award which specifies a Ship Committee review with District Advancement representation on p38) ranks???(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

My two cents... At eleven years old, I expect very few children (beyond the 2d standard deviation) to be able to accurately define their faith. I was at a different Ash Wednesday service this week; I was trying to figure out why the Methodists were baptizing 4-9 year olds who said THEY wanted to be baptized. At that age, it's a parental responsibility, imo. After 14 or so (I think that's the age most Baptists use; certainly Lutherans confirm at the end of the 8th grade) I think the young person should be able to ask for themself. Frankly, I want the kid that's without a church at age 11. I cannot evangelize/prosletyze in Scouting, but I sure can expose the kid to God. Now, if his parents do not accept that we in Scouting think belief in some form of Supreme Being is important, and will not support exposure to God... then BSA isn't the right youth-serving movement for that family.

cackle, Welcome to the Forums. I absolutely agree with you. As an Associate Advisor, you are the right man in the right place to help intercept and deflect some of the questions. Our task as adult Arrowmen is to help maintain the mysteries of the Ordeal and the Brotherhood. I want the kid a little nervous. This is a growing up for him.

What my Council has issued as guidance: "The new application will be required beginning May 1, 2008."

As a sourcebook not for gear, but for learning about gear, I recommend Colin Fletcher's The Compleat Walker. I believe it's now in its fourth edition. The first edition, while truly obsolete in terms of the gear itself, is a great read about how things work together with the "House on your back!" You can save bundles on polypro fleece getting it at Wally World and other places. Extruded coke bottles are extruded coke bottles... period! As I've said here and elsewhere, spend some energy on good (not greatest... GOOD) hiking boots and socks, then breaking them in before the expedition. Also spend energy on getting frames that fit. I started backpacking before there were hip belts... you cannot know how much that belt shifts the load. If the hip belt doesn't fit, the backpacker won't have fun.

Lisa, Of course we Republicans are getting ready to watch Barack and Hillary spend the next four months slamming at each other. If the "super-dooper-delegates" are the ones who make the call, whichever nominee the Democrats give, you can bet your bottom dollar the ads will focus on the back-room-back-scratching deals So yes, watching Ann Coulter can be entertaining... but so can the Hillary's in Trouble show... Best thing is, we get to use all this muck to explain why voting is important for Cit in Nation kids...

Mr Dibben, I don't know about the District Chair, but the District Commish and his ADC's are nominated IIRC by the Council Commish and approved by the Council Board. What we call District Scouters (including those with specified positions) are Council Scouters by the rules... with assigments to District tasks and positions. At least, to my mind that's a way to explain it.

Bye bye Mittt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone betting on Bloomberg being the next Ross Perot (cue Johnnny comes marching home...)???