John-in-KC

You urgently need to have a heart to heart talk with your Council Field Director. Being sent to NCS while your programs are running is a recipe for disaster. Your camp will be inspected; while most Day Camps are inspected by the local Council; I believe there's a percentage which get checked by National. You're being asked to plan and operate without the key info you need. In a better world, you'd take training this year and understudy the existing leadership, then be ready to operate next year. As Director, your responsibilities are to facilities, registrations, materials, health, safety and support... and that includes those staffers. Your PD has responsibility to put forth the program and staff it. Your Professional helps you handle the business end. One of your key responsibilities is to the Trading Post (moneymaker). T-shirts for the kids are in your lane as well. I hate to say this, your Council has not done you any favors at this point. Most Day Camps have been in planning for 8 months + now, and they operate in a single district. You have to take your travelling road show to 4. Eamonn, this one is in your State. Can you locate resources to bear???

Gotta agree with Gold Winger. I'd also have a cup of coffee with the Committee Chair, the Chartered Org Rep and your UC. Explain your challenges. Share how you want to get well. See what advice, support, or resources can be brought to bear while your unit is in the "get well" phase. One possible resource is a 1/1 session of Scoutmaster specific, or perhaps there are others in your district who need training off the annual cycle as much as you do. If you've not taken Boy Scout Fast Start and YP online, now is the time to do so. The most important thing, to me, is to keep the youth Scouting. If you can do that during this rough patch, all will eventually come out OK in the wash.

There's also the Fire Chiefs program which gives $500 scholarships. Kiss them goodbye, the kids will be out of the program. In a perfect world, LAFD should see how many of those were won on average, and then budget to make whole. Like I said, it's LAFD's loss, not BSAs.

allangr1024 wrote in part... I was told by the council training staff that only 21st century woodbadge graduates could teach a 21st century course, and that I could take the new course along with other scouters. There was a time, I think prior to 2006, when someone who had taken WB pre WB21C could staff under grandfathering. That time is now over, by dictate of the National Council. This person said that for the fist few 21st century courses the staff members were a problem, since they would comment to the scouters taking the course what had changed and how much the old woodbadgers did not like the changes. So the council training staff put a stop to that. As well they should have. Your WB beads from the old course are as special and valuable to you as mine from the current course. I don't care if the course is WB or Army Command and General Staff: The course staff presents the material to its charges, and provide them a roadmap to resources so they can get to the analytic, if not synthesis, level of knowledge. I wonder, if I took the new course (which our WB staff told us we would NEVER be able to do,) would I still be a BEAR (oh yah), or would I have to become a (sigh) badger or a fox? I would miss the weather rock and unofficial games that characterized WB in the past, and are no longer there. Yes, you can take the new course! As far as patrols, I hope you've long ago figured out the object of patrolling was to mix strengths and weaknesses. You'd be thrown back in the hopper. As I recall, some here have been in your shoes, and now have two different Critters to call home. What do you mean, no weather rock? C-40-05 had the weather rock, and the service patrol had to do a limerick for the thing each time it went to Gilwell Field. Do other councils do this? Is there a refresher course for old WB'ers to see all the benefits of the 21st century? I wish there was. As I said, you can take again... though I'd take out of council (expand your resources).

Note two other items: 1) September... cooling fast in higher altitudes. 2) Philmont Level A (Backcountry) physical... that'll showstop a few folk.

Welcome to the Forums. Is your Council going to send you to National Camp School? There are many, many administrative details which you, as the Camp Director, are responsible for. You need to have them send you and your PD to NCS! Remember that your Field Sports (ranges) require trained rangemasters... archery, bb's, even slingshots!!! The games are all pretty common; it's naming them and theming them that makes the event. It's asking staff to costume up as they can, and to have songs and activities ready to help. I'd look at the Tiger, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos books... find activities which have commonalities across the years of Cubbing... that way, each activity can count for advancement (it is a Method of Cubbing). Cooking... foil dinners which the kids prepare and then cook on the fire can be leveraged many many ways. Find yourself a detail oriented person to be your Registrar. Good hunting

Hey Fred, One other thing, and it's important: You pointed out a resource to us. It's something you've got a rep here on the board ... finding stuff and posting it for others. That this resource in particular didn't sit well with many here doesn't invalidate your research or the advice you give on this board. I don't always comment, but I pretty generally look when you post something. You're a good man to have around Scouting, Mr Goodwin Are you going to be at PTC this year during Relationships Week?

Hey Fred, One other thing, and it's important: You pointed out a resource to us. It's something you've got a rep here on the board ... finding stuff and posting it for others. That this resource in particular didn't sit well with many here doesn't invalidate your research or the advice you give on this board. I don't always comment, but I pretty generally look when you post something. You're a good man to have around Scouting, Mr Goodwin Are you going to be at PTC this year during Relationships Week?

Fred, No problem, kind Sir. Have a good workweek.

From the article... Service density: 350 kids across LA county, about 175 within City of LA A quote: "to develop an alternative program run by the city. " My thoughts: OK, LA, fine, develop your own program curriculum, leader guides, safety rules, recognition system, and so on. You'll need to hire your own writer-editors, though. Your LFL license/charter includes the right to use materials developed by LFL and the National Council BSA. So instead of having pre-packaged support for 350 youth, LAFD will probably need to resource several man-years per year to develop and maintain program materials. They'll also need to find opportunities for FUN outside the learning involved of the career path. If this is what's needed to make folks in California happy, fine. They just shouldn't complain about their taxes either, since they're rejecting prepackaged program. This one seems to me law-wise and pound-foolish.

Fred, I didn't see your full point ... sorry. I was pointing out the two places in the Scouting program where worship is an explicit requirement of advancement. ... and as we've both noted, they're down in the Cub program. As you have said, those are explicit to single faith, not to interfaith. John

Let me see if I figure this out... Gold Winger... probably has Wings of Gold, hence is a fair bet to be a Naval Aviator (read pilot) or a Naval Flying Officer (read navigator or weaponeer). I would think aviation physics are of some small import to him. And Merlyn, your skillset in aviation physics is? Nothing in your name or profile, or posting history provides a reliable pointer?

From the Guide to Safe Scouting... the below is highlighted and thus BSA policy: At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the importance of program intent, youth protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426 So to my simple mind the BALOO trained leader has responsibility for: - YP oversight of the activity. - Health and safety oversight of the activity. - Site selection for the activity. - Program decisions of the activity. - Obtaining sufficient adults to have the activity be safe and successful. I would hope only a very experienced outdoor leader delegates these to an apprentice. The cynic's school of training says "check the block" and drive on. The idealists school of training says "training and practice, over time, support quality program management." While Anne may be technically wrong on her "must," after a few thousand mornings in the Armed Forces and Scouting I find it difficult to buy into that the BALOO leader would not naturally be the Pack adult accepting prime responsibility for the event. My thoughts.

GW, If they go out to a Council property to do a high-ropes COPE course, they're using a youth-serving organizations property, but are not members. They get to pay the non-member rate. If they do everything they need to do at the fire academy, more power to them. Finally, yes, I'm referring to the Lexicon lawsuit...

Exactly my point. If you want to start-up your own youth serving program, don't re-use copyrighted stuff. Create your own from whole cloth. BSA, GSUSA, Camp Fire, Boys Clubs, BigBrothers/BigSisters all deserve fair compensation for the work their authors put into program materials. Now, do I suspect that the National Executives of these programs run into each other at various meetings and share ideas, and possibly professionals? Yes. The point is they've established how to make things win/win. The late entrant has to contend with the challenge. BTW, I'm not a believer in fair use. I've been following the JK Rowling lawsuit in the US District Court with some interest...

If you have acess to a Boy Scout who is in his HS band and plays either euphonium or tuba, taps on a low brass instrument can be really cool....

OK, I know it's fishing vice swimming or boating. What is the Council providing you for the situation "a kid falls in the water?" That's the most immediate challenge I see... and I've seen it happen, accidentally on purpose... BTW, as many of us have stated on a lot of leadership issue threads, all we can deal with are the facts you present us. The more information we have, the better we can point you to other resources or ask you questions. We really do enjoy this Scouting stuff.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Like Sctldr, I'm raised (and am) Lutheran. My training is to the social sciences (geography) though... He said it the way I've got it in my tiny mind... there's room for God and science. If I'm wrong, God will deal with my re-education after this life So there's a Church of Pasta.... I gotta see if there is one of Chocolate.

In the Cub Scouting program, Bear Achievements 1 and 2 are overt requirements to worship. In the Boy Scouting program, though, there is not an overt requirement to worship. Now, the words from "Role of the Chaplain and Chaplains Aide" say: An overnight event should include worship experiences, either for the individual or for the troop. http://www.scouting.org/media/relationships/chaplainrole.aspx That said, no mandate.

OGE: I absolutely agree with you. BTW, since when is monotheism the sole basis of belief system eligible for the DRP? I see no reason why a boy raised within a Wiccan family cannot be a Boy Scout. All I ask is that his family be the leading agent of his religious upbringing... as indeed was my duty with my own EagleSon

Since FScouter asked... Let's debate evolution/creation and such here in Issues and Politics... and keep the debate clean in the Scouts worshipping thread...

I thought it was centered around North Hollywood...

One option is for the Pack committee to allocate budget to Den Leaders, based on sales of Christmas wreaths or Popcorn. We did the former, trying to substitute for direct payment of den dues. Worked pretty fair too.

The best new hire DE's I've seen understand they have a host of resources to tap into. Docs, nurses, university professors , lawyers, mechanics, accountants, route sales... you name it, it's out there. Learning how to work with the other members of the Key 3, how to listen and take advice from them, and how to look for the win-win are vital skills if the young DE is going to make a life of "Sales on Salary." Does that make sense, L?

What are freeway speeds around 6PM in Southern California anymore? Let me think.. Gaviota, Refugio El Capitan and Carpenteria State Beaches in Santa Barbara County all used to be less than 90 minutes from the San Fernando Valley. Closer in was Leo Carillo and McGrath. Here in Flyover Country, we've got camping facilities within 30 minutes of dead center of Kansas City, and even crossing the metro, I can't think of a reason not to be at a camp within 90 minutes of the lead driver rolling out of the gathering place. Why would anyone want to put 8-9 year olds in the car for 4 hours for a weekend campout, short of a supercalifragulisticexpedaliosis kind of place to see?? (Trip to the State Capital for instance...)