JoeBob

EagleDad said: "the average scouting volunteer actually puts in far less than 20 months." I have to believe that that is because new volunteers run into the National BSA red tape that this thread is about. New volunteers are all starry-eyed and fired up to be like the SM that they remember, until some dude in a tan neckerchief tells them that scouting has changed, a lot! My opinion of myself has dropped. I was enough of a sucker to hang around...

In training this week, I won't say where or what course, the night's activities concluded with "What is the Scoutmaster's biggest responsiblitlity?" I already knew the answer. As the trainer worked his way through his cards, he'd read about a different scenario, and ask if it was the SM's job. ie- Writing letters to sick scouts is the scribe's job. etc. He kept coming up with different tasks that were NOT the scoutmaster's job. Okay, that helped everyone review troop leadership structure. The only thing prior to his grand finale that this instructor would lay on the SM was G2SS issues. The SM owns safe scouting. The SM's biggest responsiblity: Get out of the way and let the boys lead. Huh? It took him three index cards of flowery complex sentences to say it. Half the 50 participants couldn't follow his thought process, and the other half recognized it as Blanchard speak. Nobody thought that it was the moving summary that the trainer seemed to think it was. This trainer never came close to what I believe is the SM's biggest responsibility. Before I answer the question, can I ask y'all, my more learned and experienced Scouter buddies, what you would answer? In two or three sentences of 50 words or less, what is the SM's biggest responsibility? My answer is four words.

Eagle and TwoCub, Thanks for the positive feedback on a national training program. I know I'm averse to most things 'national' because of the little bit of information you get woven into a blanket of indoctrination and minutia. Of the three Camp Directors I've worked for, one was an arse, one was a housewive with time on her hands, and the other was a boob. But at least one of them was like that before they went to NCS. I need to do a better job of keeping an open mind. Dynamite helps. ***** So, can I assume that no one who has read this thread so far is aware of an Inspector shutting down an already running camp?

Two Cub Dad said: "That kinda makes all the advancement minutia we're debating in other threads seem unimportant if a council will knowingly violate a major requirement of camp operation. Wow. (Yeah, I'm on staff at NCS and conduct camp visitations. I'd shut them down.)" I was reacting to this, your earlier comment. Shut down a CSDC because their CD is not BSA certified? Really? Eagle92 could probably put on a very good, safe camp using the existing cadre from previous years. Without a grumpy CD running folks off, it might even be easier. I never said that dangerous situations shouldn't be remedied. But I'm over all the empty threats from National. Instead of terrorizing volunteers with "You're gonna lose accreditation!", a more productive sales pitch would be "We have a national Camp School that will make it much easier for you to host a DC with the best program that you provide the Cubs." I've not been to Camp School, but I have been distinctly UNIMPRESSED with a few people whose only qualification to run DC is they had the time to go. To those who have gone to Camp School, did you learn anything that could not have be imparted through a good interactive video or online learning?

Can anyone here confirm that an operating CS DC has ever been shut down by BSA inspectors? "Hey Mrs. Mom. This eMail is to alert you that nobody will be at CSDC tomorrow morning to unload Little John. Official inspectors from National BSA shut down our camp because Mr. Director's paperwork was not in order. Since you paid $75 for five days of camp, and we only delivered two days, we'll refund $45 when we get the money. The fees you paid us have already been spent on supplies. Wanna buy a birdhouse kit? So sorry that you're gonna have to re-arrange your schedule for the rest of the week. Hope you enjoy having Little John at work with you!" Even I can't believe that the higher muckety-mucks would inflict so much damage to the program in order to adhere to the checkboxes of their 'leadership' structure... Assuming that the program is still good, what value does being 'accredited' add to the boys experience?

CalicoPenn said it all. We need another product, with a better margin, that we can imbue with a high quality reputation. GS has us beat; bad. Other fund-raisers we investigated: Team Pasta (BullDawg and Yellow Jacket shapes, etc.) Margin was WORSE than popcorn! BBQ sauce had potential - Different flavors, so you could sell multiples. Average bottle in a low consumption family will last about a year, so they'll be glad to see you in a year if the product is good. (Unlike bad popcorn that they still haven't eaten.) Canned that one because of huge subjectivity in taste buds. One man's sauce is another's poison. Maybe a variety six-pack of different flavors? Smokey, sweet, mustard, hot, and vinegar sauces all come to mind.

Tell Mom that she can't earn Eagle; she's aged out. And her son needs to learn to fly on his own.

I tried to narrow the focus of this thread specifically to the BSA Pants. I want rationale that makes sense to the boys. And I think EagleDad has given me the best ammo so far. Uniform Appearance: It ain't happening. 1- The argument fails because we work hard to NOT be uniform with everything else. Badges of rank, Lodge flaps, temporary badges, different name tags, Philmont Belts, woven cord belts, old style Official Boy Scout belts, new style official Boy Scout belts, neckers of every color in various sizes held on differently by different slides, hats from every sanctioned event for the last 10 years... You get the point. A boy will logically ask "Why must our pants be uniform when nothing else is?" 2- The current melange of official pants is a mess. Some boys are in shorts; the older boys are proud of how faded and ratty their pants have become; newer scouts have bought oversize to grow into them and have folds under their tightly cinched belts. And some are intentionally renegade in jeans. Scouters attending roundtable have tied colorfull cordage to their belt loops and have Woodbadge critters hanging from the keyfob. 3- Ever tried to look sharp in the zip-offs? You can't iron a pleat into them without melting your zippers, and the local dry-cleaners might laugh at you. They are 'frumpy' at best. I feel like I'm slumming on Scout Sunday. So I'm leaning towards any OD Green pants within a certain color range. This would legitimize cargo pants, wool trousers, and many hiking shorts. And it might actually get us more uniform in appearance. We could discriminate against faded trousers that are now legal, have an affordable option for the reluctant jeans wearers, and accomodate adults who want something more comfortable and/or dressy than the BSA pants. I wanted to be sure that I hadn't missed anything before heading down this path. And no one has hit the argument out of the park. Thanks for the input.

Moose, I applaud your troop's increased stringency. At a recent roundtable I was taken aback by most of the SM's attitude towards the move to less written material for Eagle projects and Boards. The SMs seemed to relish having everything minutely written out so that they could hide behind the written word. I view that as giving the scouts the ability to leverage the written word to minimize their effort. The scouts were hairspliting as much as the SMs. Rejecting a few projects and adding a little uncertainty to a candidates mindset will hopefully motivate superior effort and be a more accurate reflection of the real world.

Take your basic car and add two soda straws to the front, making the overall length 12 inches. Tape the fronts of the straws together so that they engage the starting pin. and you've given yourself five inches up the track, which translates into more potential energy (gravity) in the drop until the track flattens out. All else being equal that car will be moving faster at the bottom of the hill. If your track has enough room behind the starting pins to accoomadate five more inches, if the straws don't bottom out (rub against the track) in the curve where the drop translates to the flat track, and the straws are dark enough to trigger the finish line sensor; you'll win.

Take your basic car and add two soda straws to the front, making the overall length 12 inches. Tape the fronts of the straws together so that they engage the starting pin. and you've given yourself five inches up the track, which translates into more potential energy (gravity) in the drop until the track flattens out. All else being equal that car will be moving faster at the bottom of the hill. If your track has enough room behind the starting pins to accoomadate five more inches, if the straws don't bottom out (rub against the track) in the curve where the drop translates to the flat track, and the straws are dark enough to trigger the finish line sensor; you'll win.

15 hours later I'm back at a real keyboard. Lemme help: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/seealaska.asp "Charles Gibson asked her what insight she had gained from living so close to Russia, and she responded: "They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska". As to the question of whether one can actually see Russia from Alaska, Governor Palin was correct: such a view is possible from more than one place in Alaska. A Slate article on the topic noted that: "In the middle of the Bering Strait are two small, sparsely populated islands: Big Diomede, which sits in Russian territory, and Little Diomede, which is part of the United States. At their closest, these two islands are a little less than two and a half miles apart, which means that, on a clear day, you can definitely see one from the other." Also, a 1988 New York Times article reported that: "To the Russian mainland from St. Lawrence Island, a bleak ice-bound expanse the size of Long Island out in the middle of the Bering Sea, the distance is 37 miles. From high ground there or from the Air Force facility at Tin City atop Cape Prince of Wales, the westernmost edge of mainland North America, on a clear day you can see Siberia with the naked eye." You're welcome.

LisaBob Would you Google 'Sarah Palin see Russia'? And post back here the link you find to the Snopes article? I'm typing on my phone and it doesn't copy links. You're quoting Tina Fey, not Sarah Palin. What Palin really said, that you can see Russia from land in Alaska, is true. When you quote a comedian to belittle a public figure, you undermine your own credibility. I'm sure you can find something else that is actually true to use againsr Sarah Palin.

Never spun a thread before. Feel like a spider... This is interesting. In the other thread people were discussing the dynamics, leverage, example, etc. regarding an ASM who refused to wear the uniform pants. But no one ever addressed directly the topic that I need help with. WHY must the 'Uniform Method' require the orificial Scout Pants? The uniform shirt is an easy sell. All the bling helps people know who you are, and serves as a bulletin board for scouts to strut their achievements. Very important to recognition and advancement. But why the pants? Other than to enrichen supply? No insignia down there. Which is probably a good thing. "Why are you wearing a 'Paul Bunyan' badge on your pants fly?" The zipoffs are marginally uncomfortable. They rub on your thighs. And anything heavy in your cargo pockets will beat you legs tender after five miles. A well fitted pair of jeans and a belt pack will serve you just as well, if not better. I want to know the inherent value of the uniform pants so that I can sell them to my scouts. Help me out guys>

Okay. Get out your screen-grabbers: I miss Hillary.

WuzYungB4

"2010 GSS indicates (again) that the U.S. Catholic population continues to grow." http://nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2011/03/emerging-us-catholic-trends-gss-2010.html At least we're not declining.

Let's put it back in context with the whole quote: "In fact, Romney actually said, "I support the right of the Boy Scouts of America to decide what it wants to do on that issue," but added that he personally believed "all people should be allowed to participate in the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation." All males under the age of 18 can participate in Boy Scouts. Gay adults just can't be leaders.

Fish, I'm with you on the blue laws, and any law based on religion. If a law is based on Christian belief, doesn't that mean that Hindus, Jews, etc. can be exempt from that law? Blue laws are an example of religious excuses being used to PROHIBIT an activity by force of law. But the current debate is about law being used to REQUIRE an activity of a religious group. Catholics aren't trying to ban the sale of contraceptives. They just don't want to be forced to pay for them!

Taserdoc: Here's how I'd interpret your hypothetical: Two boys did something stupid. Their respective SMs took them aside for a private ass chewing. The boys hit on YPT as way to get revenge for their hurt feelings. "I was alone with the SM (non-sexual YPT violation) and he yelled at me!" (Bullying) If the SM admits to those allegations, why would anyone higher up want to dignify the boys complaint by talking to them?

'Freedom OF Religion' means you get to pick your own deity and belief system, and 'None of the above" is a valid choice. 'Freedom FROM Religion' means that you want to live your life without having to be bothered by those small minded people whose basic insecurity demands that they believe in some science fictional higher power. And you don't want to be bothered by religious people's life choices if their practice of their religion inconvenieces you in any way whatsoever. In fact you want to take their money to pay for your birthcontrol and Viagra so that you can flount your disrespect of their belief system. That damned incessant chanting! One of the founding tennants of America is Freedom OF Religion. 'OF', not 'FROM'. Pack, Moose, and Fish: Your contract analogy is accurate as far as it goes. Since 1973 the contract has contained an exemption for contraception and abortion (The Church Amendment). Now Obama is trying to change the terms of the contract. Religious institutions are saying "NO!" This is a contract negotiation. If the Fed and the Catholics can't come to terms, I can see the Catholics withdrawing from accepting Govt money, and downscaling their services. Since the healthcare system is already about to bust, may I laugh while watching the Fed try to replace 15% of the nations hospital beds? If the populace doesn't like what their elected officials are doing, they vote to change the government. It's in the contract. If voters decide that keeping those hospital beds and indigent sevices in the system is more important than arm-twisting good religious people into breaking with their faith... Well. Most religious people rank their allegiances in the order of God, Family, and Country. Country is two spots below God on the list.

4 foot and 4.5 feet paddles sound a little short to me. Reaching your chin while standing was the measure we used in the dark ages. If you're going to err, I'd lean towards paddles being too long. 1- If you can't reach the water with a short paddle, bending over ever stroke to paddle is going to result in a really sore back. 2- If the paddle is too long for any particular scout, the resulting leverage makes each stroke harder to complete; BUT the energy expended into that stroke still gets transmitted into forward motion, just slower strokes. 3- Longer paddles are better for stern paddlers - ruddering and bracing. 4- Longer paddles are excellent for cross-thwart bracing for ingress/egress. *** You made me look: From the Carlise paddle website: Canoe Paddles Average length: 56"-58" Choosing a canoe paddle length is a fairly straight forward formula. Sit in a chair and measure from your chair seat to your nose. Add this number to the height of your canoe seat, then add the length of the paddle blade. An even simpler formulas is this, 56 to 58 inch lengths fits 80% of all whitewater canoeist. If you are in a open canoe with a taller seat or have a long torso you may want to consider a longer length 60 to 62 inch paddle. Paddlers with shorter torsos may prefer a 52 or 54 inch paddle. **** So 4.5 foot (54 inches) may be okay for shorter Scouts. But I'd hesitate to cut it all the way down to 48". (This message has been edited by JoeBob)

1- Employers should not be 'giving' health insurance to workers in the first place. It's a practice that started during WWI when wages were frozen. Health insurance was a perk that fell outside wages that business could use to entice better workers. The quagmire that heath care has become can be directly attributed to employees having little sensitivity to what things cost. Their company insurance pays, so they don't care. We need to get back to employers paying only money to workers and letting employees band together in purchasing groups to get exactly what insurance they want to pay for. (I resent having to pay for pregnancy benefits...) Interstate sales of health insurance online would get the market strongly back into the process, and restore sanity. 2- Now for the fed to mandate what the given healthcare package MUST contain, is just flat crazy. Isn't it conterproductive to provide Viagra and abortion?

If your wireless device has a method of archiving those texts, I'd be sure to save them. I share your discomfort on where this might be going. Printouts of text messages could make for interesting reading at his next BOR. Online social interaction doesn't have the same level of decorum that face-to-face has. People can be downright rude online and suffer no consequences. Kids have grown up with this level of incivility, and may think that it's just fine to be an arse electronically.

Mohawk paddles can be had for $12 each if your buy 12 or more: http://mohawkpaddles.com/Mohawk_8_Straight_Canoe_Paddle_details.aspx I still have a couple that I found on various rivers, and they are fine for kids. Like packsaddle said, Carlisle paddles are indestructible; but heavier. Eight years working as a whitewater guide never saw a Carlisle break, out of hundreds of paddles. http://store.carlislepaddles.com/category/443233/Canoe_Paddles I couldn't find any quantity deals, but you might call them. Another oportunity to get a bulk rate might be to call a local outfitter and add your order to theirs. My only advice for PFDs is to get something that allows ample clearance for arm motion. Some of the industrail strength flotation jackets will chafe if you're actually paddling and not just sitting still.