Stosh

Stosh - question - does your troop conduct Troop Leadership Training (TLT)? Yep! If yes, what does the training consist of? Everything the BSA program has to offer. The manual, SM handbook, SPL handbook, PL handbook, program books 1-3, etc. We do not skimp financially on our training resources. What sources of material are used for the training? All the material from the BSA program. Who conducts it? SPL, assisted by the members of his Honor Patrol. Where did it orginiate? After conferring with the SM on finances, I purchased the material an

We have a zero tolerance policy against hitting, too.

"At the direction of the SM...." No matter how one cuts it, defines it, justifies it, having adults leading means the troop is not boy-led. Maybe the boys ought to read the SM handbook to find out how little authority they really have in the functioning of their patrol method troop. Like the ASM, they serve at the discretion of the SM, it would seem the boys do too. Stosh

You write: "ALL BSA literature has the adults coaching, supporting, never DIRECTING and never stepping in to correct." (emphasis added) First page in the chapter on the Boy-Led Troop, SM Handbook, pg. 12: "One of your most important challenges as Scoutmaster is to train boy leaders to run the troop by providing DIRECTION, coaching and support." Yes, the SM DOES DIRECT. The adult is challenged to train the boys to run the troop. It does not say they direct the procedures and policy of the boy-led troop. Suggesting direction, goals, aims, coaching the boy's progress and suppo

When a discussion goes against one's point, the next step is to attack the opponent. 1) Yes I have had training, Cub Fundamentals, Webelos Fundamentals, Webelos Outdoors, SM Fundamentals,, Venturing Fundamentals, hold a PhD in the University of Scouting and Wood Badge. I have also taught each one of those levels except Wood Badge. I have almost 20 years in scouting as an adult leader and I'm a professionally trained counselor. 2) A pedigree doesn't count. If a rookie SM sees himself stepping in too much and interfering with the operations of the boy-led patrol method, then he's g

"Yes, that is what most troops around here do. Otherwise, you end up with Patrols all based on age, which can lead to competition problems. This method allows the younger Scouts to work with older boys in the other patrols, and see other styles of leadership. They learn how to work with others who haven't been their friend since 1st Grade. It also allows the troop to balance the patrols as boys leave. And yes, this method IS in the BSA literature - Scoutmaster Handbook, pg. 20" Competition problems? Older boys setting a good example of leading by example, and younger boys emmulating them

Breaking up patrols and realigning them according to arbitrary rules created for the welfare of the troop is definitely not the patrol method. My NBP was told that this group will be together until they decide differently. They named themselves, picked out a yell, and began the process of binding themselves together with the appropriate esprit-de-corps and teamwork. Ok, now once they are good pards and have been together since first grade tigers, we're going to break the group up and redistribute them into other patrols who are losing members to girls and cars. What a totally bogus dyn

Sorry, I still don't buy it. One may wish to justify it anyway they wish, but addressing another person by "namecalling" always implies a negative and demeaning value. It may be part of male "bonding", but that bonding is nothing more than pecking order and ego building. Our troop forbids any namecalling of any sort. If one must address another person they have a name, use it. I refer to my boys in the same respectful manner they refer to me. "Mr. Smith...." Sometimes it causes confusion when their parents are around, but I call their parents by their first name. If a boy

In the midst of this discussion two issues are being ignored. 1) What do the boys want to do? 2) Only the patrols involved should be part of the process. If your group of boys is truly scout-led and patrol-method, then it's no one's business except those boys involved. Obviously no one wants a department manager from the other end of the building coming over and making decisions about your work process in your department. Part of leadership building is decision making, problem solving, and living with the consequences. The best you can do is SUPPORT THEM IN THEIR DECI

Congratulations, John, you are beginning to better understand what the patrol method is all about. It's not about troops, it's about patrols, their independence, their espirit-de-corps and their stability as a group. A troop is a confederation of independent patrols, NOT an independent entity with patrol sub-groups. The troop serves the patrols not vice versa. Stosh

This whole process and the accompanying lip service to the patrol method have always intrigued me. Whereas the basic tenents of scouting solidly support the patrol method, very few if any really use it anymore as it was originally intended in the beginning. The patrols are there for the troop and the SPL runs the troop and that person isn't even a patrol member. How can that logic apply and make sense to the patrol method? A non-patrol member runs the patrol method program. Please explain! The chain of command in modern scouting is the reverse of what scouting was set up to be in the

I did read the post. Please provide an example where name calling is not bullying. Please also include what bullying is defined to be. Stosh

Name calling isn't bullying? Name calling is always a form of belittling and belittling is the #1 goal of a bully. A good bully can intimidate and belittle with a look and doesn't have to even say a word. Any such "dirty looks", name calling, or physical intimidation are strictly forbidden in our troop. If the boys can't come and feel encouraged and a valued part of the team/patrol/troop, then something's going to be done to correct the problem. Stosh

Our boys did this at a camporee and the EAA people did an outstanding job. Stosh

Ok, now I'm confused. Camp staff can sign off on merit badges, but they can't for T2FC? Ok, then why have a T2FC program at camp if it's only an orientation program and not for real? As far as MB at camp for the new boys, they get swimming and first aid which gives them indepth study of the T2FC requirements and then they are encouraged to take a "fun" MB. If they take pioneering or orientation those apply to T2FC as well. I guess I find it difficult to explain to the boys that attend the NB program at camp why at the COH after summer camp all the older boys get MB's and

Somehow I get the feeling that it is acceptable to have the SPL run the troop. According to that logic the CC is responsible for running the Troop on the adult side. What's the true chain of command for the boys?

This type of behavior is a direct result of changes that have been occuring in our culture in the past few years. A decline in tolerance, diplomacy and tact have been reflective of an increase in coersion, bullying and violent force to "motivate" people. This establishes the environment of fear in which these people have the upper hand. Unless specific leadership training occurs and is reinforced with appropriate examples, this problem will continue and fragmentation of units (and society in general) will continue it's negative spiral. There are leadership styles that promote espir

I used to do all the council training for Webelos Outdoor. However, once they dropped the mandatory to it and allowed Webelos leaders to take their boys out into the woods without sufficient training, I jumped ship. It never ceased to amaze me that Webelos leadership would show up for the outdoor training with a new tent and receipt from the local department store they stopped at on the way out to training. They had no idea how to set it up. BUT, they came and they learned, and they watched others and they had a good time. They learned to cook on a fire (after starting it of course) and a

We find that unless the boy specifically wishes to attend the NB activities at camp, we don't encourage it. The boys previously would attend these sessions at camp and then come back and not have anything "checked off". No records means we end up doing it all over again anyway. (That's a nice way of saying, the boys basically wasted their advancement time at camp.) Instead we have the boys take First Aid and Swimning MB at camp and by accomplishing those we feel they have fulfilled their T2FC requirements in those areas. They end up with something when they're done and appropriate records

The forums which have the least amount of visible moderation are the most successful. I have been a moderator for over 10 years on numerous forums (not this one) and have found that off-forum moderation is by far the best recourse to take. Most of the forum members do not know moderation is being done, except the person committing the infraction. This lack of distraction by the moderators goes a long way to insure a balanced and civil discussion. Forums that have problems are usually ones that limit discussion topics to anything non-controversial. Will shut down threads. Will delete

In our troop, the SPL is the leader of the leaders. He is not head program honcho. He does not lead the meetings, nor does he run the show. He coordinates other leaders. Each patrol in the troop is to be prepared to run the meeting with a flag ceremony, a training time, game time, and closing ceremony. The topic is up to them. They have to be ready when asked by the SPL to step up to the plate. Once they have done their program, they immediately begin planning their next opportunity. The SPL moves from patrol to patrol and assists them with their leadership when planning

After 20 years in the district having served many different committees, on train in Cubbing, Webelos, Webelos Outdoor, Scoutmaster Fundamentals and Venturing trained programs, (many of which I have gone on to lead), been unit leader in two different units, woodbadge trained (C9W-93), active outside of scouting, etc. etc. etc. and because I have never been "active" in the roundtables and chummed up to the others who vote, I won't ever receive the DAM award. Here it makes no difference what your "qualifications" are, it's who you know and who's your buddy. This past year, after being nominated

There's nothing in the book to say that these older skills are now taboo to be taught. My honor patrol scouts all wear a Myer's Code flag as a patrol neckerchief and know how to use it. They use Morse Code rather than Myer's Code, however. They also know how to tie a Turk's Head Knot to hold their neckerchief in place. While they are at it, they are also learning to cook at a level far higher than that set down by the minimum requirements of first class requirement or the cooking merit badge. As a matter of fact, the last time we went out on an outing the troop had the traditi

Here's how we have solved the problem. ADD/ADHD are the problem of the kid and are ultimately responsible to their parents. If they mark on their health forms they take medications they are required to bring those medications while on any and all scouting events. The health form is signed by a physician and that doctor is ultimately responsible for the prescription drug and its usage. If a parent decides their child is to take a medication holiday, they can have to attend the activity/campout and deal with the problems that will occur because of their decision. Otherwise the boy canno

Pre-pay their dues when they recharter/register. We used to collect dues weekly and if a boy got behind he had to pay up to go on an activity. Too much hassle. Now just pay once a year and be done with it.