Stosh

Hmmm. We've solved the problem with a variety of different options. Buck and gag is popular, but my favorite is public humiliation. Now that I have your attention, and before anyone get's bent out of shape, the Crew is Civil War Reenacting. We had one boy who did not fulfill his responsibility to have a clean weapon ready for the battle reenactment (safety infraction big time, so the issue was serious.) He was not allowed to participate in the reenactment battle that day (basically a time-out punishment) issued by an adult who is not part of the group and when the "battle" was over,

Stosh: I have never been a fan of bringing new boys into existing patrols for a number of reasons.... ajmako: This is a concern, but I don't buy it as a big enough concern to rework the whole patrol system over. Part of being a patrol is having comraderie. Part of being a Scout is being friendly, kind, helpful, and several other things. Too often we use "older boys have other interests" as an excuse. But what are we really doing? Seperating inexperienced Scouts from experienced Scouts. That means we need a stratified program to accomodate the stratification. >>> I see your

I wish to emphasize agreement with FScouter. Unpleasant task punishments get stygmatized and unless someone is getting punished, they don't do them. In our troop we try to emphasize the positive to avoid bad behavior in the first place. If there's a task that needs to be done, our SPL has been trained to give the most unpleasant tasks, i.e. kybo cleaning, to the best patrols, and the PL is trained to assign it to his best scout. Each scout is learning that these jobs go to those best qualified, most responsible and dedicated scouts. Important jobs are not given to slackers for pun

John, If we were any other kind of CO/Crew combination I would tend to agree with you. One simply can't protect a church council president who wants to be SM from all the various conflict of interest situations he/she will find themselves embroiled in. However, our CO is an adult version of the crew (Living History/Reenacting). Both organizations are under similar by-laws and expectations, the crew being more strict than the adults. We often have coinsiding activities. For example the crew is having an activity next Saturday which the CO membership is invited to participate in and

ajmako, you are correct. Yes, like a good/bad Den Chief, the TG can have a major impact on the NBP. It would bode well, to appoint a well qualified person for the POR. Our TG is Star rank while the NBP PL is 2nd Class and the APL is Tenderfoot. The PL/APL are younger boys, more the age of the new boys, while the TG is older and sets more of an older brother image for the patrol. I don't like the idea of a NBP designation either, but I do like some of the things it brings to the troop as a whole. Unless one has multiple feeder packs, the boys generally come into the troop with a leg u

"Regarding Stosh's questions about the TG, perhaps I didn't say what I meant quite right." Nope, your explanation is very good. "The rotating PL thing was only supposed to be the first half of the NSP tenure. During that period the TG has many but not all of the roles of a PL--he teaches skills, and makes sure the PL's responsibilities are met." But listen to the comment I made. TG acts as PL, that means no one else can be PL and the TG has usurped the rotating PL responsibilities and more importantly - authority. I get the feeling the rotated PL isn't really a functioning PL,

I admire your lofty goals and undaunted ambition, however, after 20 years as scout leader and another 16 years as a church youth group leader, I have come to the conclusion that not everyone wants to be saved. I have learned also not to spread myself to thin (yeah, right), but there's only so much one can do and if saving everyone was possible, there would far less problems for today's youth than they have. It's not that there are those out there that haven't tried, good quality people, skilled and talented people, but it just doesn't happen. May I suggest: focus on that which you can

It's kind of strange how each example seems to cast the TG in different roles. One he's a substitute PL, then moves to being an instructor, and finally stepping back out of the picture. Why not have a PL and Instructor and have the TG do the TG role? It sounds like someone is appointing a "real" patrol leader (TG) for the NBP. The boy elected "PL" is nothing but a training session for the boy and not really a POR. If it walks like a duck.... No amount of smoke a mirrors can change the reality of the situation. Maybe it's a lesson in having a POR and having someone else

No matter how hard one tries there is alway going to be the impossible bump that can't be overcome. NBP member cannot go to summer camp this first year because dad doesn't have the time to take off from work to come along too. Our answer to the boy? "That's unfortunate, maybe next year." My bet is on this boy never making it until next summer. Any thoughts? Stosh

Not only is there a lot less work for the adults under the BP method, but the boys come on-line with their leadership earlier than if the adults "meddle" in the patrols. If they support the patrols instead, the environment of leadership is encouraged and expected. The boys tend to step up and take charge when they feel there is no adult competition which they know they will lose of challenged. I do like the permanence of the BP approach and that if tne boys wish to move from one patrol to another it's up to the patrols to decide that. We have "patrol transfers" allowed when the boys re

One might wish to check with the scout troops in the area. They do many things that would fulfill the Webelos requirement for AOL. For example, we maintain woodduck houses that need to be periodically checked and would require a "hike" of about 5 miles to get around to them all. The cubs could tag along and learn something. There are advancement requirements for the scouts as well, that would require hiking. All your Webelos leaders need to tap into these scout resources right away and make use of them. When I was WDL, I made quite a bit of contact with the troop rather than trying to re

Sometimes these things can't be helped. I am the CA of a venturing crew and the president of the CO. That makes me the Executive Officer AND crew Advisor. After 8 years of working with the crew, I'm not going to step down just because the CO elected me president/senior officer. And when I'm not doing that, I'm ASM of a scout troop, have been for almost 15 years now. Any of these combinations need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. I don't think I could be pulling this off if it wasn't for the fact that I have been a registered BSA member of some sort for almost 30 yea

Gonzo, My comments were not directed to the posting under Patrol Method as much as the lack of discussion on how patrols fit into the problem being described. One of the adult responsibilities towards the patrols is to provide support and in this case defend them against such obvious attacks by power hungry parents. Surely the patrols individually cannot do this, the PLC was intimidated enough to crumble, and the committee hasn't the gumption to step up to the plate and do it's ultimate job SUPPORT the boys. To me this is the classic example of how adults take leadership from

Once one gets good at it, it takes thread, scissors and a pin and one can switch out a patch in less than 5 minutes. I have never used the plastic thingy, personally I think it looks like someone is too lazy to do it right. Ever see any other organizations dangle patches? A patch implies sewing. Stosh

A uniform by definition means one-common form/style. If people find it necessary to customize the uniform, then it is by definition no longer a uniform. No one ever said that the uniform was to be stylish or contemporary, it was only meant to be of one form. Unless everyone conFORMs (with common form) to the uniFORM (one common form) then they have defeated the purpose of what they are trying to do. Stosh

If this topic is under the patrol method category, why has no one mentioned the patrol thoughout the whole discussion? If it's BSA aim to promote the patrol method and everyone is out vying for position of power, who's helping/supporting the patrol and patrol method of scouting? Stosh

The hook is for the pocket knife. However, the hook is not very strong and one could lose the knife is snagged on something. Just be careful and you'll be ok. There seems to be a tendency to remove the hook and/or take them off prior to purchase. (This is a ready supply of extra hooks for those who may want them or who have lost theirs). I use 2 hooks, one for my pocket knife and one for a brass match safe, neither of which I wish to put in my pocket with keys and change to get battered around. If the boys are worried about their knives getting lost, use the 3-4' parachute cord to make a

It all boils down to how much one trusts the boys to actually lead themselves? If every time there's a bump in the road the adults step in, it's not really boy-led. Didn't the boys walking around in circles all afternoon have enough spit to say this was stupid to the adult dad? Surely a sense of integrity, confidence and leadership from the boys would go a long way with the SM and the Dad battling it out. Sounds like a mom and dad fighting over the kids in a divorce. Had proper boy-lead patrol training been done, it would have encouraged the boys to stand up for themselves even if it

Not a problem Beavah, I'll take my 2 paragraphs of puffery elsewhere. Happy Scouting! Stosh

I believe the preferred method is sewing. Being a temporary patch one would surely never want to glue one on. Occasionally the patch will come with a loop to hang on the button and some scouts use the plastic thingy to put their patches in. Although there is no advancement requirement or Merit Badge for sewing, it's a skill all boys should know. I teach my NBP how to thread a needle, pin and sew a patch. Boys should also be able to sew a button on and patch a tear or seam separation. And as far as my venturing crew is concerned, learning to sew can and does save them hundreds of

One must remember that Scouting today is more than just what is written in the current edition of a handbook. At one time, Morse Code was a Second Class requirement and Signaling used to be a Merit Badge. Well, not anymore, but my boys are all fascinated by it and exploring it's possibilities (mostly for school study hall because it avoids the paper evidence of note passing). We're working on American Sign Language as well, more practical and current to today's world. Isn't it kind of strange that BSA provides for an ASL interpreter's strip and very little resource to provide for the boy's

"Well, we're suppose to be making men here, not boys." Have to admit to never knowing what this "Making Men" thing is all about." >>> You're kidding right? "then he is on the ground doing 15 push-ups" Might be seen as making boys into men? I can train a dog by installing fear into him or her. Of course being that I love dogs, I much prefer to teach the dog that when he does what I want him to do he will get rewarded by a kindly pet and kind words. Boys will grow into men without any help from us! >>>> If you really believe this then BSA is wa

"I was refering to a statement from Kudu, about his assumption of Adult Association. Please show me where I mentioned anything else you posted about what an SM does. All of that is explained in the SM HB - again I ask, do you even have a copy?" Hmmmm, cheap shot, but I'll answer anyway. After 20 years as an adult leader, the last 9 doing double duty in two units, I've perused a few handbooks along the way. If nothing else, I collect them and have read every edition since 1911. I have also read much of scouting's history and it's development over the past 100 years. I can guarantee my

A Scout is Courteous - that should take care of the vocabulary problems. A Scout is Kind - that should take care of the name-calling problems. A Scout is Clean - including one's mouth.... A Scout is Reverent - Speaks for itself Not a problem, when it comes to signing off on Scout Spirit, a discussion can be held on this at the appropriate time with each scout that insists that bad and/or abusive language and name-calling is no big deal and boys will be boys. Well, we're suppose to be making men here, not boys. Stosh

Once again I fail to see the point being made. "The Adult Association is described as follows, at least in my copy of the SM HB: "Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positivie role models for the members of their troops. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives." Where does it say anywhere that the SM makes decisions on how the patrols, troop or PLC are to be run? Sounds like an appropriate statement where the SM