Horizon

onevoice: It is not the number of gays who want to be in Scouts, it is the NON-gay parents who do not want to put their son into an organization that they see as bigoted. I could ban all African Americans from my Troop and it would only impact 1 Scout out of 100. However, another 99 would quit my Troop if I did something so racist. The BSA has an image in the community of anti-gay bigotry, and that costs us a lot more than just membership among gays. Gays: We are still seen as one of the best groups out there. I am working with a lesbian couple right now to find a Pack that will take their son without giving them too much grief (since they can not register as adult volunteers). I have also talked to a gay male couple with a son about how to get their boy into Scouting when the time comes. God: I have had one Scout quit after deciding he would follow his father's footsteps into becoming a "fundementalist atheist". (I use this term to describe those atheists who can be just as obnoxious as some Koran-burning, military-funeral protesting self-proclaimed Christians.) I don't think our stance on God hurts as much, since religion is such a part of life in the US. Girls: I have several younger siblings of my Scouts who can not wait until they qualify for Venturing. The GSA does not have the same cachet as the BSA, so they want to join. I don't think that our single-gender rules hurts us the least, thanks to the existence of the GSA.

My understanding is that we took a hit on the United Way drop-off, but we have some deep pocket donors in the area who made up a lot of the difference. The God/Girls/Gays issue does cost us some adult leaders, and also some Scouts. I know of more than one Eagle Scout who won't put their sons into Scouting due to the gay ban. I know several other families who won't consider Scouting for the same reason. Our local school board has to be careful to keep the school available for any non-profit that requests, so that they don't get accused of giving the Scouts preferential treatment. I donate at the maximum level to a School Board candidate each election to help keep our relationship strong. This candidate calls me whenever a Scout / school issue comes up. The Newport Sea Base made itself open to all kids, which seems to have spared it from the guns of the ACLU so far. Ditto the Outdoor Education Center, though we own that land as opposed to the lease we have on the Sea Base.

Barry: A psychologist does not dispense or presecribe drugs. You need an MD to do that, not a PhD or a PsyD. The term diagnosis is typically used to describe the evaluation of a trained professional in the field. I would not call a teacher a trained professional when it comes to diagnosing the need for a psychotropic medication. They can certainly accurately compare behavior of a child to their peers, but they can't write out a prescription.

My wife holds a PhD in Psychology, trained in clinical work but works as a research professor. When it comes to therapy (which is what psychologists do), she says that you have to find the right therapist that works for YOU. There are different types of therapy, and different people respond in different ways. Yes, in a perfect world someone with problems would find the right parent, the right friend, the right religious figure, etc. to talk through their issues and find resolution. However, sometimes are problems ARE our friends, our family, or even our religion. In those cases, having someone "neutral" to speak with can make a huge difference in someone's life. Psychiatry, on the other hand, is more focused on the meds. Anyone with issues should START with a psychologist (or other types of therapists depending on the need), and if counseling is not the answer perhaps a prescription can make the difference in someone. Are meds overused? Probably. Since we overuse anti-biotics, I see no reason that we do not overuse other medications. Do some people seek therapy to have someone tell them that THEY are not the problem? Yes again. Are there bad actors out there? Absolutely. Can we condemn the ENTIRE profession - no, we should not.

We have a dedicated adult in the Troop who advises our Eagle candidates. He is quite strict with them that they should type their project on a computer, so that Microsoft et al can help with spelling and grammar. As he puts it (paraphrased), "In life you will be judged, and often times the first impression will determine which path of review you are in. If you have poor spelling or grammar on the first page, your project will get more attention to detail instead of attention to the project itself. It is easy to fix, and simple to check - so do it right." Candidates advised by him don't get stopped at the door. As for the concept of writing the plan to be complete. My son's Project Advisor told him that he wanted a project plan written out that could be picked up by another boy on a moment's notice. It was a great exercise in learning to write out a complete plan, and helped to identify missing areas in advance. Again, an excellent exercise in planning out your Leadership path. As a Scoutmaster, I am happy to advise my Life Scouts on their project plans. As a Counselor for Personal Management, I do the same for that requirement. Write it out completely, make it so that it stands on its own without the need for you to explain anything. The ability to communicate clearly without need to additional explanation is a Leadership skill that any good Patrol Leader should have.

One more recommendation if you are doing some sewing: Add an epaulet to the top/inside of the sash. For a Court of Honor or Color Guard, you can then ATTACH the sash to the uniform shirt, and it won't slide off or shift when the Scout is sitting around or moving. This especially helps when the sash is the really long one and the Scout is not that high yet.

My high school son was spotted in his uniform at a charity event, which led to a Facebook post by a girl about "loving a man in uniform." This led to several posts between her and other girls on his page about wanting to borrow his uniform shirts for Halloween this year, and about how sexy it would be for all of them to be wearing them. So Scouting can be uncool, but sexy and cool, and not cool, and ...

OK - opening myself up for some flaming marshmallows here. My son earned his Eagle. He was once asked during his trail whether that was a goal. "It is my goal. I also really don't have a choice - my parents expect it of me." Now - I did not serve as his counselor for every badge. I WAS (and still am) the Scoutmaster, and will continue to be the Scoutmaster for awhile. He had the advantage of a parent who was already going to the meeting/campout/activity - so he did not have to ever ask for a ride, permission, etc. But I am happy to state that I have high expectations, and he knows it. These extend to grades, activities, Scouting, church, etc.

My wife was on the faculty panel reviewing admissions criteria for her university. They give a point for Eagle and its equivalents, and ANOTHER point for Senior Patrol Leader - they want to know if you were a leader.

I like it, and just forwarded it to my Troop. http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/36C309.txt I especially like the focus on self-reliance, and following the methods from before WWI.

Things I tell my Troop annually: 1) When you are the Scoutshop, stop and say "hi" to the volunteers at the desk. Ask for a copy of your records from Scoutnet. KEEP those records, and use them to compare to your Handbook and blue cards. Bring any discrepancies to the attention of the Troop Advancement person. 2) Scan your blue cards regularly and save the image. 3) Scan your Handbook signoffs after each rank.

I have seen contracts for kids in some sports, where they sign claiming that this is their #1 extra-curricular activity. They are not "enforced", but rather serve as a communications system from the team to the parents and youth. By signing a piece of paper, the youth is hopefully informed of the seriousness of the situation. However, once the season starts, it is never brought up again. My son had to sign papers for Jamboree regarding behaviour and the use of electronics, with my counter-signature that I understood that I would have to pay to have him brought home if he went overboard on anything. Again, it served as a focus of a conversation that we had. Then again, our conversation was boiled down to "follow the Oath and Law, and don't do anything that you KNOW will make the SM angry." Pretty easy.

Security is another issue. Many bases have increased their security measures since 9/11, requiring complete lists of any adults (with their SSN) driving onto the base for the visit. My son is also a Sea Scout, and if I want to see one of his competitions, the Skipper needs all contact information for everyone coming along. I was recently the guest of a Ship's Captain down in San Diego. It STILL took me 45 minutes to get on base, even with his full approval, submitting information in advance, etc.

NJCubScouter: Trail to First Class: Tenderfoot Rank Requirement 2: Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch. Second Class Requirement 2a: Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight. First Class Requirement 3: Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. TOTAL: 3 nights camping minimum to earn First Class. Camping MB: Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent. TOTAL: 20 nights camping, 17 nights in addition to those necessary for a Scout to earn the rank of First Class. The committed Scouts in my Troop tend to earn Camping merit badge their second year at summer camp, having already easily camped 20 nights by then.

qwazse said: "First a lot of people aren't buying it. For example, "non permissive" Presbyterians currently censure those who ordain homosexuals. That's because liberal theology at its worst presumes that who we are outshines who the ancients were. At its best it assumes the ancients would have liked who we've become. Regardless, it tells moderns "don't just pick up a Bible and read it! You need *our* help." As you know, the level of mistrust is more than palpable. " I am a member of a Presbyterian Church (PCUSA) that is part of the Covenant Network (aka Progressives according to some labels). We have NEVER said "don't just pick up a Bible and read it! You need *our* help." The Covenant Network has a site here: http://www.covnetpres.org/ As for what it would take to change my mind? It was already changed. I was raised by "non-permissives" who taught me to hate homosexuals, Jews, Mexicans and Blacks. I changed my mind once I got to know some real (as opposed to stereotyped) homosexuals, Jews, Mexicans and Blacks. My change was further solidified once I started following behavioral genetics news and research, along with research into criminal psychology. It would take a ground shaking change in both science and my Christian faith to switch back to the bigotry of my youth.

This is why Kudu says to camp 300 feet from in-laws when on vacation! Glad to hear the Scouting ethics are in your kids - well done to you and your Pack.

It would be fun to graph the spectrum: On one end, we have the Baby Sitters of America. This is when parents toss their kids out the door of the car, pay no attention to what is going on, and provide zero support to the Troop either. They tend to be the ones always late picking up their kid after a campout or a Troop meeting (forcing me and one other adult to hang out at the church). On the other end, we have the parents engaged in Webelos III and helicoptering. They are well covered in some of the comments in this thread when taken as a whole.

"If I was writing the requirements, I would require at least 5 campouts for First Class." Hmm - interesting thought. Trail to First Class - cumulative nights camping: 1 night camping for Tenderfoot. 3 nights camping for 2nd Class. 5 nights camping for 1st Class. Star: 5 nights camping as a First Class Scout Life: 5 nights camping as as Star Scout Eagle: 5 nights camping as a Life Scout TOTAL: 20 nights minimum camping for Eagle (which also is the Camping Merit Badge Requirement and is not changing the total nights currently required). By spreading it out, you don't end up with a Scout doing all of his camping early, then never showing up for a weekend event after that while still on the Trail to Eagle. I have had that issue with a Life Scout who never made a campout during that period.

sailingpj: Where are they selling the Jambo belt buckle? My son wanted one (to match his dad's 1981 version), and each time they were sold out. Once he watched a guy scoop up every one of them into two buckets. My son asked if he could buy just one of them, the guys said no. Guess how I feel about HIS Scout Spirit. Grrrr. As for the POD - my son's Jambo Scoutleader told all boys in the Troop not to do it. His message was that so much time would spent in line instead of with early morning patrol and Jambo activities that it would not be worth it. My son spent 3 days traveling through all of the camps trading patches and pins, and then spent the rest of the time earning all of the rockers.

My Troop as a Scout held a joint COH. First rank advancement, then the Eagle portion. Each Eagle still got his roast, parents came up, etc. I liked it, since you saw the spread of boys earning ranks, but plenty of time was spent on the Eagles. At the Troop where I serve, Eagle COHs are separate events. The are semi-catered events (food afterwards). A nice photo slide show is done to music. A roast is held. The "Voice of the Eagle" is used. However, attendance varies depending on the schedule and the boy. My son has earned his Eagle, and is considering when to hold his COH. Partly he wants far distance family to attend, but he is also considering waiting until a couple of buddies catch up with him.

My son came home from Jambo with a ton of patches, including several "sets." We are trying to come up with the best way to display all of them in a fashion that he can keep for awhile. I was thinking of a large book of some sort with protected pages, but I wanted to see what this group might have come up with.

Good one. In the past I have counted summer camp as one activity, each Troop campout as an activity, service project as an activity, a patrol hike as an activity, etc. I have never been asked to sign off for more than that.

Re: The Media. My wife is a research psychologist. She very begrudgingly talks to media, because of their propensity to misquote or misapply her research. She ONLY publishes in the top journals, and will not even submit to anything lesser after a rejection. The APA takes the list of talks and puts something out to garner attention, and the APA is not a pure research organization (that would probably be APS). Because of the membership that is focused on clinical and therapy, you have a subsection of scientific researchers, a section of practitioners, and a section of people who try to bridge the two.

I have my eyes on a 410/22 breaking style gun for my Troop to use during our annual shooting campout. Pretty cheap, and easy for a small Scout to use.

Beavah: I agree that every generation looks down on the following one's culture. I also quoted a bad source - The Telegraph says it is Sharon Lamb. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7941690/Superheroes-send-out-wrong-message-to-boys.html Her faculty bio: http://www.umb.edu/academics/departments/cehd/programs/counseling/faculty/SharonLambpage.html Based on a cursory review - she was not presenting peer-reviewed research, but simply giving a talk. Like our own Dan Kroh, I prefer to cite peer-reviewed research when making an arguement. Carry on!