hops_scout

I gotta go with OGE on this one. This program does provide a "safety net" for breaking the law. If the kids weren't drinking in the first place, there'd be no need for this program.

I much preferred camping in the campsite a lot better than going to dining hall for each meal. The camp our troop goes to now has meals cooked by patrol for 2 meals a day. Normally it's breakfast and dinner cooked in the campsite with lunch in the dining area. Parents' Night they have dinner in the dining area and lunch in the campsite. Parents' Night is Pork Steak. Eating in the campsite has a few plusses. 1) It's not crowded. I hate eating in dining halls that are so packed you can hardly move! 2) If the Scouts screw it up, they have nobody to blame but themselves. 3) Patrol teamwork Couple negatives 1) Time can be an issue. Cooking and cleaning both take time of course. Gotta be careful. 2) Getting stuff cleaned. While this goes for all campouts, summer camp is especially important to make sure stuff gets cleaned well. Like I said, time is an issue, so sometimes the Scouts will rush. Overall I like the patrol cooking the best at summer camp. I've had bad meals and I've had good meals both in patrol cooking and in the dining hall.

Scoutldr, I agree. The heat in Virginia is no worse than the heat in St. Louis. I'll stay away from the Minnesota January Jambo This last one was HOT, but with proper preparation there would have been no issues. I had dehydration hit me for a couple hours the very first day I was there. Completely my fault because all I had to drink the entire day was like an orange juice or something from McDonalds that morning. Dehydration got me in the evening for awhile. That was nothing compared to football two-a-days in southern Illinois!

From the articles I've read (both here and on the Belleville News-Democrat's website) it sounds to me like the program might have technically been illegal to begin with. It talks about the driving curfew being moved up to 11PM instead of midnight. They already said that they are driving until as late at 2AM. Also, there are exceptions to the driving curfew. This, in my opinion, would be a good exception and it is possible it will be granted an exception. The Secretary of State Jesse White apparently supports the program. This isn't the only new law that blocks what could be seen as a good thing. There are multiple universities in the state of Illinois who have research involving quitting smoking and such. Well, as a part of the studies, the participants must smoke in a ventilated room. According to new state law, it is illegal to smoke inside public buildings. Our wonderful state government:)

Tim, in the next few months the applications for Jambo staff will come out. I believe they are currently nearing the end of the filling of Director positions. Last time an adult staff member paid $595 plus transportation to/from AP Hill. Youth staff was $295 plus travel costs.

The staff does EVERYTHING!! The majority of the staff at Jambo are volunteers. There are so many different jobs you should have no problem finding one that fits you. In 2005, I worked at Action Center D on the rappelling tower as a youth staff member. I hope to return in 2010 to once again work at that tower. I loved it!

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf According to the definition found at dictionary.com these items fit the description. weapon of mass destruction noun a weapon that kills or injures civilian as well as military personnel (nuclear and chemical and biological weapons) If they don't fit yours, I'd be interested to see your definition of a WMD. Eamonn, I counted 4,212 casualties in your post. Wikipedia puts the casualty numbers on September 11 as being 2,999 with many of those being civilians. So 4,212 casaulties over nearly 5 years or 2,999 from a single day? One is too many. But it has been reported a few different times that attacks have been prevented from happening on US soil since we have entered Iraq.

"With any luck everyone will learn from the weapons of mass destruction that this isn't the case." Eamonn, would you mind elaborating here?

Eagle, I believe it's 30 square feet per Scout, but I'm pretty sure it's only for trips 6 days or longer. Weekend campouts would be okay with smaller tents.

Venividi, I call Illinois home as well and both my parents teach in a public school. I know there were many teachers not happy about this. Wasn't it mandated to not take place while that law is decided in court? I'm thinking somebody up in the Chicago area challenged its legality... Also, Illinois just passed a smoking ban. Any public building and within 15 feet of all doors, windows, and vents. Definitely some better things those lawmakers could be doing, but the whole state government has issues..

And this is necessary why? Your last thread said only: "(This post edited by a staff member)" or whatever. There was no need to keep it. For some reason, I have a feeling a moderator didn't delete whatever it said because if so I would think that person would have locked or deleted it like I did.

I joined Cub Scouts as a Tiger Cub whenever that was;) Would go all the way through Wolf, Bear, and WEBLOS as much as I hated it. I tried quitting every year, my mom tells me, but she wouldn't let me until "rechartering time." Well that time just so happened to come right after Pinewood Derby. I was always having fun then! Would get AOL and join the troop. Advancement has never been big to me, but I would eventually get to Life. I was a Den Chief and then when those boys joined the troop, I became a Troop Guide.Here I was a First Class Scout and the other Troop Guide was an Eagle Scout, but I had many more responsibilities with that patrol. I've served as Assistant Patrol Leader, Patrol Leader, Librarian, Troop Guide, Den Chief, Quartermaster, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, Senior Patrol Leader, and Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. I've worked day camps and worked a National Jamboree. I couldn't tell you the names of my patrol members. We weren't much into the patrols at that point in my Scouting career. The patrols have become much more distinct since then. The SPL actually has responsibility (GASP!) and the boys are expected to make decisions. The best times I had in Scouts was definitely the camping. My dad doesn't do outdoors stuff. My mom doesn't do a whole lot. If I didn't have Scouts, I would have never gotten into hiking, camping, climbing, and rappelling. Now I have a huge pile of equipment in my room including a brand new pack and a brand new backpacking tent. I can't wait to go camping with the troop again! When I aged out at 18 last February, I joined the troop as an Assistant Scoutmaster. Being a college student two hours away from home, I have no responsibilities in the troop, but I am another adult. And I am an experienced member of the Scouting program so when I am home, I can work with the boys on outdoor skills as needed. Our troop has changed a lot since I joined back in 1999 or 2000. Most of it has changed within the last year. There are opportunities those boys have now that I didn't have. The troop is backpacking, doing high adventure (that isn't a boy and dad thing), and there is excitement surrounding those activities. I am so happy those things are in place now because I always wanted to do them, but it didn't happen while I was a Scout. I look forward to joining them on future trips

Troop has Timberline 4 Outfitters. Yes, they are expensive, but they are a good tent. I don't know about backpacking weight on them though. The troop just bought 2-person backpacking tents last summer. You also may want to look at Alps Mountaineering. I just got one of their tents for Christmas and I set it up last week. I like it a lot. It's pretty light (4 pounds 12 ounces) and has lots of space. The one I got is a 2 person tent and it's got two vestibules and two doors. Was able to set it up by myself so with 2 people, it should only take a minute or two. They also offer a Scout discount!

This thread has spun out of control. It will be locked. Use good judgement when posting throughout Scouter.com-- don't post something you know is going to be deleted. Why make someone have to edit your writing for you? We're all on this board for a reason and those reasons may be different person to person, but I really believe there is a common reason: here to help America's youth. Attacking the moderator staff, as has been done in this thread, is uncalled for. The moderator staff at Scouter.com is all-volunteer and I believe they all are doing their jobs as needed with the best outcome in mind. They are not trying to protect one person and leave another person open for attack. They are not trying to "officially" support one side or the other. If you feel you have been mistreated by the moderator staff, feel free to let SCOUTER-Terry know so he can act as he feels is warranted.

The only time I've seen it was summer camp and Jambo. Jamboree I think it actually makes sense.

With that rationale, the word "ni##er" is perfectly acceptable for people to use because African Americans use the term. You don't see people jumping on them for using the word (unless you've seen Coach Carter) so it makes it right, too?

"I guess given the BSA's "exclusivity", racism is in fashion again." Wrong. Last I checked BSA didn't discriminate against a specific race.

Nothing against "equality" I'm against the United States giving in to any minority who believes they have been mistreated.

http://www.startribune.com/featuredColumns/12551256.html Katherine Kersten: Normandale's 'meditation room' is home to a single faith By Katherine Kersten, Star Tribune Last week, I visited a Muslim place of worship. A schedule for Islam's five daily prayers was posted at the entrance, near a sign requesting that shoes be removed. Inside, a barrier divided men's and women's prayer space, an arrow informed worshippers of the direction of Mecca, and literature urged women to cover their faces. Sound like a mosque? The place I'm describing is the "meditation room" at Normandale Community College, a 9,200-student public institution in Bloomington. Until recently, the room was the school's only usable racquetball court. College administrators converted the court into a meditation room when construction forced closure of the previous meditation room. A row of chest-high barriers splits the room into sex-segregated sections. In the smaller, enclosed area for women sits a pile of shawls and head-coverings. Literature titled "Hijaab [covering] and Modesty" was prominently placed there, instructing women on proper Islamic behavior. They should cover their faces and stay at home, it said, and their speech should not "be such that it is heard." "Enter into Islaam completely and accept all the rulings of Islaam," the tract read in part. "It should not be that you accept what entertains your desires and leave what opposes your desires; this is from the manners of the Jews." "[T]he Jews and the Christians" are described as "the enemies of Allaah's religion." The document adds: "Remember that you will never succeed while you follow these people." A poster on the room's door advertised a local lecture on "marriage from an Islamic perspective," with "useful tips for marital harmony from the Prophet's ... life." Other fliers invited students to join the Normandale Islamic Forum, or participate in Ramadan celebrations. One thing was missing from the meditation room: evidence of any faith but Islam. No Bible, no crucifix, no Torah. Normandale's administration is facilitating the room's Islamization. The college's building crew erected the barrier separating men's and women's sections, according to Ralph Anderson, dean of student affairs. College officials also posted signs at the room's entrance asking students to remove shoes -- a Muslim custom before prayers. This was "basically a courtesy to Muslim students," Anderson said. Despite the room's Islamic atmosphere, Anderson says it "is open to everyone." Why is the meditation room segregated by sex? "Muslim students prefer that areas be divided into male and female," he said. "Other students don't care." Doesn't sex-segregation present a constitutional problem in a public educational institution? "I don't want to comment on that," he said. And the literature regarding Jews and Christians? "I would probably take it out if I knew it was in there," said Anderson. Normandale's zealous effort to accommodate Muslim students is not new. Chad Lunaas, a former student who works at the college part time, cites examples. Last year on Fridays, he says, he often entered the bathroom to find that "every sink and toilet stall had someone washing his feet." Other students couldn't use the bathroom at these times, and those who tried felt awkward. Lunaas finally expressed his concerns to a Muslim student who "seemed to be in charge." "His attitude was, 'We don't have to listen to you, we can do whatever we want,' " he said. Confrontations also erupted in the sex-segregated meditation room, according to Lunaas. "Muslim students just took it over. They made people who were not of the Muslim religion feel very uncomfortable, especially if they were female." One female student tried to use the room when Muslim students were in it, said Lunaas. "She believed she should be treated equally. They were telling her to leave, to take off her shoes, to go to the other side of the divider." Anderson says he met several times with concerned students. But "the whole thing was just basically swept aside," according to Lunaas. ---- Oh wait, it's another minority so it's probably "okay" for them to do it.

OK? So it sounds like he added something after his proposal was approved and the city requested that he remove the addition. According to the brief article, he complied.

You all have a mess of issues and I have no idea where to start! I am probably going to be criticized up and down for some of the things I am about to say. Oh well. I guess Ill remind you that this is coming from an 18 year-old. Lets see.. I guess since the topic was originally taxes, Ill start there. Ill flat out tell you that I know little about taxes. I know that at one job, they take out taxes and at my other job they do not take out taxes. One is a private fitness center/physical therapy clinic and the other is a state university. I know that I pay some sort of tax on most things that I buy. Illinois even has a tax on gasoline. One reason the national budget was nearly balanced during Clintons term and is not so much now has a lot to do with the Department of Defense. Clinton, I believe, cut the military almost in half! Well, theres a big chunk of money gone each year out of the budget. DOD makes up a good percentage of the national budget. This caused massive spending to be needed when the War on Terror was started in October 2001 and then eventually Operation Iraqi Freedom. Vehicles needed updated, body armor needed updates, research was done for a variety of things. In recent years, weve seen the Marine Corps and the Army adopt new uniforms that of course are totally different. The Navy is in the process of moving toward a new uniform and the Air Force is also in the final stages of its new uniform. Also, the military has increased numbers as best as possible creating more jobs. Finally, of course, we are paying millions (billions?) each day for Iraq. People complain about how poor our service members have it, and I wouldnt want to be in their positions truthfully, but it does get old. People saying that troops are sent against their will. Every single one of the soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen overseas knew they signed up to defend their country. They are doing their jobs! Remember, we have a volunteer army-- not many countries can say that. I know of at least one person at my school who nearly joined the Air Force because he didnt have the money to go to school. Instead, he was going to let the Air Force pay for his college. I absolutely do not support that. You are either there to protect this country or youre not. And if youre not, dont join the service to begin with. Do I think we should do away with education funds for service members? Im not sure. With that said, I truthfully thank those who do serve and I support them. Education is so screwed up. From the top all the way to the bottom. College prices are outrageous. Public schools in many parts of the country are also in extreme trouble. They dont get the funding that is needed for many of them to operate for the best of the community. I know of many that are overcrowded. My high school had 950 students in it while the building was extremely outdated and the recommended capacity for the building was right around 600 students. It has taken the school district 18 years to pass a referendum to build a new high school. Instead, taxpayers kept allowing them to build smaller elementary and middle schools which were typically full within 3-4 years. Now that the referendum passed, the state has been slow (thanks Rod Blag) to fund the project more. Meanwhile we have schools that are all of 150 students or all of 200 students. Wouldnt it make more sense to combine small schools like that so you can get more tax money to do a better job? The NCLB is a mess. Here, meet these requirements. If you dont, youll lose your job. Oh, and do with without any funding too! And now everything is based off of a test. If it isnt on a test, its not important. So how do students learn this material? They find a way to remember it for a few weeks, but once that test is over that material is gone! And on to health care. Why should I pay for your health care? Are you paying for mine? Many countries have found the universal health care is not effective. Tear your ACL.. great youre athletic career is over. Why? Because an athlete is looking at a 6 month rehab period AFTER surgery before being able to return to play. It will take at least 12 months to return to 100%. BUT, an ACL surgery is going to be low on the list. It probably wont happen for several months after the injury. Thats just one example. How about we remove ILLEGAL aliens so we arent paying for their health care, their education, and their food. Wouldnt that make sense? Ah, but that would be racist I guess. And we must remember that the whole world should like us. Kick their butts out like the law says, and costs will go down! Pretty simple! So, it was mentioned above about the money being spent in other countries. Gee, I wonder who is shelling that money out or making the United States shell it out. Maybe the United States should leave the United Nations (or as I prefer to call them the Un Neccessaries). When the tsunamis hit a couple years ago, they cried foul when the US only funded 85% of the recovery and rescue efforts. Also, the United States make up quite a bit of any UN coalition when a military presence is needed. In return, we get criticized for protecting ourselves. Well, I could go on and on. But I think Ill stop now because this is plenty for you all to nitpick through. If youll notice, I mentioned one politicians name only. I dont believe that I mentioned a single political party. Neither one of them is very good. For that reason, I look forward to NOT voting in 2008.

Yes scoutldr, that is true. My point is I really don't want someone who was just out smoking to now be breathing the chemicals that they had inhaled onto my food.

Absolutely agree Eamonn! You know I find it interesting (going offtopic a bit) how it seems cooks and medical personnel are often the ones you see smoking cigarettes. I know there's exceptions, but I really have found that quite interesting. I hate watching a cook go from smoking their cigarette outside and walk right in and start cooking. Even if they cleaned their hands, they are still likely to be breathing on the food!

Eamonn, you gotta remember... we live in a world full of bacteria. It's everywhere!! In my biology class last year, we took samples of different surfaces throughout the school. You want to guess what was the cleanest spot we could find in the school? How bout the dirtiest? Ok, the weight room was absolutely digusting-- no surprise really. We had 4 cases of staphylococcus aureus at my high school in a week's time. All of it out of the weight room. Then 3 weeks later they had two cases at the junior high. Two cheerleaders got it and I believed they replaced all of the tumbling mats that they had bought a few years ago. None of it was the MRSA. The administration threatened to essentially shut down the football team the first week of the playoffs! Coach was told on that Wednesday or Thursday that any player with any cuts or open sores was not going to be allowed to play. After 13 weeks of football, that's nearly everyone! Luckily, a physician stepped in and ended that idea. Personally, I'm shocked that weight room hasn't produced more cases of staph. But I guess the people that are in there the most have been able to fight it off without it breaking out. Like stated above, we live with staphylococcus aureus on our bodies all the time. We have overreacted once again and it's likely to lead to even more issues if we're not careful. I have a friend here at school who chronically has staph outbreaks. She has to go get the sores drained every few weeks. She has said that they told her the only solution to kill it all off is a heavy dosage of penicillin for like a year. But she's allergic to penicillin so she can't do it!

Mmhardy, the council could have a leg to stand on with that fact that they were using the Boy Scout name as a way to make that money. Also, it could be that the council and the charter organization are working together under the BSA name at this point in the lawsuit. We'll have to wait for more details. Purcelce, I'll shoot you an email later today...