HICO_Eagle

You know, the ironic thing is Maryland's license plates claim the moniker "The Free State".

Daddy_O, you should be aware that some posters have agendas and will use any excuse to push them. Kudu is one of those posters. Kudu, please don't hijack this thread. WTH? I may be new to these fora but Kudu is one of the best posters I've seen on this. He actually knows about the values and heritage of Scouting and he provides documentation or citations. Oh yeah, he answered the OP's question, you're the one hijacking the thread by attacking him.

All those "right wing extremist" categories in Napolitano's new advisory to the police and she neglected Scouts and Scouters. I mean, aren't we as dangerous as people who collect guns, vets, etc.? Oh wait, I fall into those two categories as well ...

The best way to encourage a desire for training is to demonstrate that said training will bring value to their work with the Scouts. Mandating it will just create resistance and antibodies -- especially with the adults who view it as redundant or who know about and disagree with many of the changes in the program in recent years.

Just replace "my son" with "Scout X" and ask yourself if you would have done the same thing. IMO you were right to do what you have done. If anything, you may not be offering your son the same level of service as SM that you would another scout precisely to avoid the appearance of favoritism. I've frequently seen dads be harder on their own sons than any other Scouts and it can really make things difficult for everyone. Good luck to your son!

Daddy_O, I would say first that your boy's desire should be the primary criteria. If he feels Scouting isn't for him then he shouldn't be pressured to join or participate. Likewise, if he wants to continue in the program because he enjoys it, he should be allowed to. I can certainly understand your concerns about his health. Most troops I've been in have been outdoors troops but we have occasionally had Scouts who were not built for or not interested in a lot of outdoor activity. That's fine as long as he does what he needs to and participates fully in other portions of the program.

Thanks a lot for the references Kudu. Your website is fantastic. I guess I fall in a bit of a middle-ground here. I think pulling back on its moral core will hurt Scouting by driving away its base of people who value tradition and traditional values. BSA would likely see the kinds of fractures that are evident in the Episcopal Church today. On the other hand, I never really saw BSA as a proselytizing religious organization -- yes, some units were more religious or denominational than others but almost all units I've run into were pretty welcoming. My troop when I was a Scout inte

The current Boy Scout Handbook I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with this. They need to be familiar with the current (11th) edition of the Boy Scout Handbook since that's what the boys are using but they will be much better served by reading the 10th (previous) edition. In my opinion, the 11th edition is horrible, I don't understand how it has lasted as long as it has. I haven't picked up the current edition of the SM Handbook (I'm afraid to after seeing what they've done to the BSH) but the previous (8th) edition had a lot of good information in it. I like the 1972 ed

In our case, the troop bought and reconditioned a school bus for use on troop outings. We bought it using troop funds which are kept in a separate bank account by our troop committee chair and treasurer, no involvement from our CO. We purchased insurance for the bus through the church but paid for the insurance and maintenance using troop funds; the only thing the church asked was that we get anyone driving the bus properly licensed and not park the bus in the church lot.

We are only hearing one side of the story but I see a lot of you bending over backwards to impugn Schattenmann and defend this unnamed SM. I may be new to these boards but I'm hardly new or untrained as a scouter and I have seen situations pretty similar to what Schattenmann is describing. I am well aware that removing an SM is disruptive I said so myself. It is also sometimes unfortunately necessary. A festering wound like a SM practicing nespotism can be just as disruptive and unhealthy for the troop. I've seen this situation in troops, in churches, all sorts of organizations. It w

Everyone is piling on Schattenmann, possibly in a knee jerk reaction to defend this other SM, so let me take the other perspective. From what I see on the periphery, we have an SM who is taking advantage of a lack of leadership or involvement on the part of the troop committee to set his own sons up for SPL and Eagle by voiding the election process and mandating a dynastic succession for the next year plus. That is not healthy for the troop. resqman and John-in-KC are absolutely right in that it's the CO's responsibility to hire or fire the SM. The CO will usually take the committee's

I would leave the "too cold" judgment up to the parent but I'd precede that with an explanation of what preparations are being or should be taken and why. Show the Scouts (and the parents) why various pieces of equipment or preparations ready them for the weather -- and to what degree. I think the coldest I've ever done in tents is -5 F and it WAS kind of miserable for many of the troop even though we'd prepared pretty well. The ground we were on was acting like some ungodly heat sink so I could feel the heat getting sucked out the soles of my feet even with thinsulated boots and double lay

I'm sorry, I think solar ovens are cool but they're hardly new -- and they won a prize over truly innovative stuff? Sounds like the anthropogenic-global-warming hysteria is at work again -- just mention "greenhouse" and "Kyoto" and win a prize!

I haven't seen a snipe hunt since my troop tried it on me when I was a New Scout. Problem for them was that I knew it was a ridiculous prank and didn't fall for it. On the other hand, we DID send a new scout out looking for the left-handed smoke shifter at my second summer camp. I think the third or fourth troop he encountered offered to trade for the bacon stretcher across camp. He came back empty-handed after an hour and a half or thereabouts. I think he visited every troop in camp and even some staff but he took it in good humor. Personally, I think it was a rite of passage th

I'm not sure what the "perfect example of the current philosophy that is more concerned about recordkeeping than actually doing the program." I was referencing how your response seemed to prioritize the recordkeeping as the "bigger problem" whereas I viewed the bigger problem being the mandates themselves. If the training is encouraged rather than mandated, the recordkeeping becomes nice to have rather than the huge problem it is. If adults can't find the time then maybe they aren't the adults we need in the program. Perhaps my perspective is skewed since I have dealt primaril

Mine, and all the other adult leaders and pretty much every scoout in my unit feels he is not a good scout as he is not there, he shows no leadership, no responsibility, he makes some commitments and then blows them off. To pass this kid along to eagle would be an insult to every kid who actually did the worka and EARNED IT. The rank is the highest one scouting offers and to cheapen it and give it to kids who really do not desrve it waters down it's value and cheapens the BSA. highcountry, in this case you're covered. The Scoutmaster Conference prior to him seeing a board of review requi

Wow, a LOT of discussion on this. I wouldn't go with an arbitrary attendance percentage threshold. Heck, even when I was Scoutmaster I missed a large number of meetings when work had me traveling. I think the key is whether or not the Scout is filling his leadership position. If he is, he's active even if he has to do it all outside meetings or activities -- for instance, meetings could conflict with athletic team practice, activities could conflict with varsity games but he could be filling his responsibilities as Instructor by meeting with Scouts privately to help them advance. If h

Wow, I missed the bit about the ban on simulated weapons, guess I should be checking G2SS more regularly but I really wish National would put these things out for discussion before issuing their edicts. Irving seems to be emulating the nonsense out of DC more and more every year.

My current unit is chartered by the UMC but they are largely uninvolved with the unit. Our finances are completely separate except for the short period many many years ago when we had a troop vehicle that was getting insured through the church.

I used to keep 2 short sleeve shirts, one pair of shorts and one pair of pants plus 2 different leather belts and 3-4 neckerchiefs. I got the second short sleeve shirt so I could stay well-groomed through a week-long summer camp. For a while, I was splitting time between troops in two different states so I transitioned to using beige Velcro to mount my council strip, troop number, position patch and lodge flap. This had the added benefit of letting me swap patches between uniform shirts and remove the patches before putting the shirts in the laundry (I find they do much better when hand

""Training should be mandatory! " Of course it should. It's the best way to provide the proper program." I'm sorry, I don't believe that. Adults and Scouts should be encouraged to get training where they are deficient but I would rather have an involved adult who lacks formal training than have adults (or Scouts) pull back and not get involved because they "don't have the training" and don't have the right timing to get that training. One of the biggest problems I see right now is this management philosophy that places such a huge value on documented training instead of looking at

Wow, this just adds to my frustration with National. I realize the lawyers are just trying to help preserve the program by avoiding lawsuits that could cripple or shut it down nationally (and I realize there are groups out there that would just love any pretext to do so). On the other hand, this is just more evidence that our society has lost its strength and stamina. Just 100 years ago, the age when Scouting started, boys the age of our Scouts were frequently men of their house, earning (or supplementing) their families' keep. We had plenty of unsupervised or relatively unsupervised o

Kittle -- I'll add my perspective as a childless 20+ year Scouter. There shouldn't even be a question in this matter -- go to resource camp with your son. Presumably we are in this activity for the boys, not our own egos. Yes, you may learn some things at Woodbadge that will make you a better scouter but more importantly, the boys in your troop (and your own son!) need you at resource camp. There will be other opportunities to do Woodbadge when your son is more independent, doing his own things -- there won't be nearly as many more opportunities where he ASKS you to participate in som

This kind of garbage is why I find the training mandated by National to be rather worthless. They keep trying to sell official training as improving the program but I find much of it to be worthless to me (or worse than worthless when they spew stuff that's flat out wrong as you cited). Any training -- mandatory OR recommended -- should offer some kind of benefit to the trainee. That benefit can be personal (education or growth) or administrative (improve understanding of how the council or national operate, reduce chances of lawsuits, etc.) but there should be a benefit. Handing out w

My current unit has an excellent relationship with its unit commissioner but I've always been a little unclear on the benefit to the unit. In times and units past, I never ever saw a unit commissioner, this guy shows up 4-6 times a year (sometimes more) but I'm not really sure what he DOES. Having those materials online is a huge help so I can look and figure out what he's supposed to do and try to use him most effectively.