fred8033

Absolutely agree. Fixing the agreements will have little to no impact on the the units. This is about correcting misleading agreements. Words matter. Written agreements matter. For most charters, no one expected the words to be 100% followed thru. Not the unit leaders. Not the council. Not the charter org. Parents were oblivious to the words. ... The old charter agreement was more about soliciting discussion and making everyone feel good. Now in hind sight, these words are being used to infer more responsibility than ever existed. Words matter. It's time to make th

Thank you for the extremely helpful summaries. I've always wondered about these issues. Insurance prejudicial. No significant relief. Duplicative services. Conflicts of interest. Are we getting to where LCs will need to find a path to continue scouting for years or even forever without BSA? I'm surprised this is not a new standard.

I liked what you wrote ... That sounds exactly like our summer experiences. Way more relaxed. Way more freedom to create their own experiences. Each year was a slightly different flavor, but each was for all troop aged scouts. Each year brought something special ... the year the scouts discovered a short (????) cut from the group site to a gas station / ice cream shop. ... An unused / unlocked / enclosed 1910's era shelter that became the 10pm shelter for a magic the card game ... etc. When you have 30/40 scouts, you still need other activities even if you have 10 sco

Summer (off school) is three months. The perfect time for camping and activities. Council camp is 7 nights. For ten years, our troop did it's own extended camp too. The troop extended camp was often destination based and other parents stepped up for skills or MB or helping out. Those camp outs were often the best.

I often argue our expectations of the scouts should parallel the expectations of the adults. If no phone charging stations means no adults, I'm not surprised at all that our youth membership is dropping. ... BUT ... that's another debate that's been had many many times.

... 20 years ago. Now, I can do remote desktop screen sharing using cell phone from most camps in my state. Often, I'm lucky enough to have reasonably high speed data inside the tent. ... real question now is "why"

Your carefully-chosen humor to relieve the seriousness / stress of this topic is always appreciated.

Has this channel been quiet for almost a full day? Wow. Or am I missing something.

Absolutely. Ditch the stuff scouting does not shine at. .... at least minimize. Scouting SHINES when it takes kids outside. Hiking. Biking. Canoe. Teaching outdoor skills. Scouting bumbles around in just too many other areas. Scouting can claim so many positive reasons to be a scout IF IT WOULD JUST STOP DESIGNING THE PROGRAM TO TARGET THOSE REASONS. The reason to be a scout is simple. To be outside. To have adventures. To try new things. To make friends. To explore the world. To sit by a campfire. ... The rest is hogwash. Sure it's neat to point and brag at,

Timely advancement is important. ... For my old pack ... end of the year was for the last-push to help stragglers and to transition to focusing on the next rank. ... aka ... award at the next pack meeting whenever possible.

Argh ... I just re-read my writing ... Wow did I blow it. ... I should never connect and try to say something meaningful when I'm extremely tired. I add, edit, etc until I'm too tired to make sure it's really written well. So much for trying to be insightful. My point is simple. Times have changed. Fifty years ago people would often say "let's be realistic" about what was really expected. Today, it is all in the words. Words matter. The written word can be used against you and often will be used against you far beyond anything you ever intended. COs should NOT sign documen

Even without the latest lawsuit and insurance issues, charter orgs should sign the agreement. Signatures mean something. Words on the paper set expectations. If you don't plan to fulfill the words, don't sign! COs need to do-what-they-say and say-what-they-do. Encourage training (lack of training is fault). Maintain membership (unregisterd adults / youth is admitting it's out of control). Follow BSA program, GTSS, etc (not following indicates rouge program) ... etc ... Review unit leader apps. Make follow-up inquires to confirm moral, educational and emot

100% understandable. Similar to or same as proceeds from camp sales only go to claims from that council. Well intentioned by individuals who want to help their council's victims. Also, probably some legal basis (no real knowledge in fact) that they want to see their local victims compensated as part of upholding the validity of being shielded against future claims. Complexity ... This case is complex enough. Yet another painful twist in how complex to manage. Can't isolate costs ... Some are shared by settlement off-the-top. Some of the funds go for trust admin, victim lawyer

Well said. Many of your comments hit home. (deleted rest of my post ... it was nothing new)

The answer per how my favorite SM worked.

Interesting article. I've just never been a fan of taking cheap shots to prove your points. "lose their way" ... "unhappy ending" BSA has had 20 years of people taking cheap shots. This is yet just another one. It's not very Christian. It's not an example want my kids to follow.

Absolutely true. SM should be doing lots of friendly coaching to help scouts develop and foster the right environment ... if the SM even knows to do that. Reflection and mentorship should always be part of the program. Heck, it's the reason we have the SM moment.

The design is scouts working with scouts in the outdoors doing things. By doing that, leadership is fostered. SM can do minor reflects and suggestions as part of helping the troop function and scouts grow. But, there is no need for a constant focus on "leadership development". Sure, do an annual leadership course in the troop. Let ASPLs build experience to become the next SPL. Share roles and jobs. ... BUT, explicit focus on leadership is often more destructive than helpful.

LEADERSHIP IS AN IMAGE. I'm okay with saying scouts become good leaders. I'm saying volunteer adults are really bad at teaching leadership. Scouts were chosen during WWII because they could do well in adverse conditions. A strong rain storm is a better leadership teacher than any adult.

Our PLCs have always focused on what's next. Often for the next two months or longer. Next campout. Next activity. Next planning session. Next mtg. SM would work with SPL for a few minutes so SPL had a plan. SPL would then go into a room / area with the PLs and do their planning. SPL would share back to the troop committee what was needed or other comments. SPL runs all "troop" activities unless he's not there or assigns it to another scout. PL runs all patrol activities unless he's not there. Elections were scheduled during annual planning. The troop did run (until la

And the PLC would do what with the method "leadership development"? The closest I can see is making sure each scout gets a chance at shopping for food for the scouts or taking their turn in another area. BUT, that can be easily explained in oath and law. A scout is helpful. It's also about being part of a team. There is zero need to have the PLC talk about leadership. PLC should be talking about activities and doing cool things. Sadly, that's a marketing problem. At some point, BSA started selling scouting as more than it was. Scouting is an absolutely great way to enc

Leadership development will naturally happen. What needs to be taken out is the "METHOD". Leadership development. We can use methods such as ideals, patrol, advancement, uniforming, etc. Adult volunteer leaders can do something there while still focusing on the heart of scouting. GETTING THE SCOUTS OUTSIDE BEING ACTIVE. Run a program that gives the scout's adventures and they will will naturally learn leadership. ... If anything, add a "method" called "adventure". The issue is having adult volunteer leaders explicitly try to teach leadership. It damages the program. I

We can deal with the individual without inferring BSA's challenges with societal change. Arrests, charges, crimes, etc ... Yeah, this is absolutely a path that will get you removed by BSA. We can debate this incident, but this should not be surprising. I'm betting the council does not want someone facing a felony jail time to be sitting in an Eagle Court of Honor. Best way to avoid arguments about requirements and having earned Eagle is to remove the scout. SADLY !!!! ... In this case, it could well be warranted.

Great comments. I think about the great scoutmasters I've known. When they brag, it's not about number of Eagle scouts or how they ran their troops. They brag about trips to the rockies or bike trips or camping at the state fair grounds or summer camp storms or ... It's never about how effective or well organized the troop was.

Yep agreed. I was disagreeing with it being a female leader issue. It's absolutely an new-leader training / learning issue. I think what you wrote and I wrote are same / similar.