fred8033

BSA has to hand over evidence. Physical and computer files. BUT, who does the leg work when the data is incomplete? Who hunts for yet more evidence? That seems to be on the side driving the lawsuit. So if the data is incomplete, I really can't blame BSA for that. Most organizations probably have poor membership records from 10, 20 years ago. Definitely from 40 years ago.

Me too. I have no magical hat either. BUT, it seems like we are in for some type of mapping / tracking of insurer paid versus victim was in which org and when. Same reasoning as property sales from a LC would get allocated to a specific set of scouts that was victimized from that area and not for all 84,000 scouts in the case. ... Some policies will have limits. Some won't have umbrella coverage for these cases. I'm sure will be pooled as similar coverage. Is the real question ... is there one or two major insurers for this whole thing? Is it really just Chubb and (???) for most of

I've tried and deleted my writing multiple times. I'm trying to ask how the insurance portion will go. I just don't think it will be simple at all. The BSA bankruptcy may be the easy part compared to the insurance case. Seriously, is there a projected insurance path? Settlement (if even possible to settle) ... or will it be a gut-wrenching case-by-case battle over years. For 84,000 cases. Prove the right council / CO. Apply the right state laws based on the time. Finding / proving the insurance company. Finding / applying the COI details. Is there even a way to get

BSA is trying to stay in business. I'm disgusted at the costs, but I really can't blame BSA. It's the cost of our legal system. ... The only way to stop BSA's legal expenses is to reach an agreement.

I absolutely agree. People get weird when money is involved. We never required fundraising. We did incentivized it. We'd spend about $200 to $300 on prizes for fundraising. Amazing how much kids sell to get a $40 big prize or a $10 Frisbee or $10 flashlight. But, that was our solution. It worked for us. Might not work for others. Ya know, the real interesting thing about scouting is ... it doesn't have to cost alot. If your CO has a fire-ring, the pack can go-far with marshmellows and field games.

Managing 84,000 claims. Fighting with insurance if they were real or not. Establishing injury calculations. Removing duplicates. Managing allocations as dollars come in. (... These $$$ are from camp $$$ which covers these 311 claimants with this finding of injury... Sending funds (to victim or lawyer ... confirming both lawyers and victims really got their funds ... ... oh wait ... that camp is across state boundaries ... and in another council ... what years was that and is it during a liability window ... ) ... Billing rates starting at $300+. Often $500+. Sometimes $1500. ...

I was a pack committee chair at least 15 years. I'd used fundraising to subsidize cub registration. When my first son started as a Tiger cub, the BSA registration charge was nominal. $15? The rest of the money was for awards, program, food, entertainment, etc, etc. "I think" our annual budget was about $150 to $200. The budget was funded between dues and wreath sales. We charged $50 dues. We often profitted $7500 from our wreath sales and used it to make a good pack program. ... If I were dealing with this today ... I'd want to keep the pack dues manageable, $50 to $75. U

That should be the standard goal for all of us; every day of our scouting careers. It's the whole reason people have donated their lives and material and money to scouting.

Yeah. ... I never envisioned it getting to 75%, but I would not be surprised. This whole case smells like a gravy train (with more words I'll avoid adding). But then again, we've been told to not speak badly of the motives of the lawyers involved. ... It's just hard not to with $1500 hourly rates, the massive monthly bills and a big slice off the top at the end. I just don't see any good coming from this case. Period.

That makes sense. Then, it's not really BSA paying. It's a settlement trust that has been set asside for this. Is that in the current negotiated agreement?

QUESTION ... What about the other lawsuits BSA was facing? Do they submit claims to the settlement trust? Specifically GSUSA seeking millions for BSA infringement and damages. If BSA gets out of bankruptcy, it's a new company and past debts are cleared. Does GSUSA then go after the settlement trust?

It will be interesting to see if any of the COs can use previous abuse settlements as shields for repeated liability or effectively class action status.

I'm betting we are at least 18 months out before anyone sees a check. I'd question whether the settlement trust can start being dispersed or if it is on-hold pending further litigation with insurance companies. Or will individuals see one smaller check for BSA settlement. Then potentially another check for insurance companies.

Question (seriously) ... How would BSA continue to re-imburse for counseling? What I mean is bankruptcy is the clearing of previous debts. BSA will be a new company. ... IF BSA starts / continues to pay for previous wrongs, then those payments put the bankruptcy in quesiton and opening the question for others that did not get full restitution.

I am very strongly in the let the scouts decide. Not even the SPL deciding for others. The scouts should be able to choose their tent mates as much as possible. It's the scout's experience, let them own their experience. As for patrols ... keep your patrols. Kids can trade and move around ... but patrols are patrols. even if just two kids. That's who they are. You want to promote patrols as part of the scout's identity. Ad-hoc patrols subverts the patrol idea.

Yep. Then add the mix that not only do scouts need different methods, but adults do too. Further, we often have so many adults that you can never get them all on the same page. Some common phrases I think about. Continually adjust to maturity and needs of the scouts Continually back off as soon as scouts begin to take the lead Number one job is to keep them from major injury Adult leaders should be in the background; not foreground Adults need mentoring as much as the scouts Forms and print-outs have few places in scouting Often best to focu

I'm really okay with that ... IF ... seriously IF ... you apply the same rule to the adults. Otherwise, it's just hypocrisy. I've heard enough that adults need phones for other responsibilities like staying in contact with the family at home. The reality I've seen is it's really much more close to the exact reason the scouts want their phones too and the parents often want them to have their phones. Check web sites. Text friends and family. Be reachable. ... I have a serious issue with setting expectations for the scouts that the adults won't follow. IMHO, I'd rather see us

Yep. We keep re-circulating the same discussions. It's to the point that I just have contempt for discussions about "scout-led" or "patrol method" or many others. The very adults that say they are doing it so well then at the same time subvert the program. I've sat in and participated in years of debate. Only to see it rarely done well. A recent one I've heard ... The scout leader that is proud to repeat stories of: ask your patrol leader. The leader thinks they are teaching a good lesson. As often, I bet the scout thinks the adult is looking down on them. ... I keep thinkin

I absolutely love Ask Andy. Learned a huge amont from those columns.

All for improving YPT. Improve reporting. People need to recognize abuse happens. It's real. It often happens by people you trust; not just the creepy guy driving an ice cream truck. ... BSA YPT is good with rules and guides, but weak on opening your eyes to take it seriously. It's opposite of the first VIRTUS trainings I took. VIRUS opened my eyes with cringe worthy video interviews of abusers from jail. Statistics. Grooming practices. Darn creepy stuff, but it opened eyes to say "This is real. Take it seriously." VIRTUS was weaker on rules and guides, but it was extremely good to

I hugely agree. I do think troops should help the scouts earn SCOUT really quick. A scout should never been in a troop for a year without earning SCOUT rank. First or second meeting is great. A month or two fine. ... It should be simple and if the scout has missing parts, it's easy to fill in. I agree the key should be "opportunities" to advance, but the program should be fun and adventure oriented. Let the kid do new things. AND, if that means sitting in a hammock for an afternoon, fine. For many, that's a new experience.

I like the idea of having first year programs available, but not required. Perhaps the camp should publish a skills training calendar for their woodcraft area. Monday night KNOTS. Tuesday night LASHINGs. Wednesday SWIMMING. Thursday FIRST AID. Have a sign-up sheet with a max number to know how many staff are needed or if troop adults need to step up too. Scoutmaster could get a report of who attended which skill ... if necessary. Really, the scout demonstrating is the big thing.

I absolutely love that idea. Adults are their own patrol. Separate from youth scouts. If they want to be at camp, they should do similar activities. Learn skills etc. Idle adults and untrained / unskilled adults are often the bane of scouting.

One person's stunt is another person's confusion on how to deal with a difficult / confusing situation. Not everyone ... including myself ... always handles difficult / uncomfortable situations well. It takes real grace. I don't handle it. If you can, cut them slack for having handled it badly. There was a friendship. It's probably still there somewhere.

Wishing you the best. This whole process is an emotional gut punch.