fred8033

A few things ... #1 The "enforcer" role? ... What are the roles of an adult leader? Is the adult leader an "enforcer"? A wise older friend? An advisor? A safety check? ... I fear the adult leader as "enforcing" rules as it creates a separation / barrier between the scout and the adult. It creates a grudge when the phone is taken and an incentive to hide the phone and hide the person from the adult leader. #2 Consistent expectations ... Will the adult leaders police themselves and secure their phones too? Key to scout is the example that the adults set. Scouts mimic the adults. Scouts quickly see the double standards setup by the adults as hypocrisy. Obviously ... IMHO ... The purpose of scouting is to teach skills, responsibility, etc. At some point, we meet the scouts where they are instead of dragging them into the past that no longer exists. Cell phones are part of their world and part of the adult world.

Be careful. We had a SPL pushed by his dad to emphasize mixed patrols and the need to reorganize all the patrols because that's how the dad experienced it when he was a scout. The reorganization caused issues with our more senior scouts that were there to be with their friends ... and especially those that owned the identity of their patrol. A few dropped. More just hung with their original patrol mates as those were their friends and who shared their scouting time. That damaged the new patrols. It took a few years to absorb the patrol change as those older scouts had to age out. If I had to do it over, I'd roll the change in slowly over a few years as new scouts join. Ask for volunteer older scouts who are interested in helping for the new mixed age patrols. Ask the existing patrols to see who is interested in accepting younger new scouts. ... Let the scouts organize themselves. ... If some scouts want to keep their existing patrols, let them keep their patrols. ... I feel strongly about this as patrols belong to the scouts in those patrols and NOT the troop, NOT the SPL and NOT the adults. Also recognize that the next leader a few years from now may have a different opinion and want to change it again ... such as myself. IMHO, focus on the adventure and getting the scouts outside. The learning and adventure will come from that. I don't know your troop's situation, but be sensitive to the scouts in the troop as it can

#1 Absolutely agree with @skeptic that the legal system blocks youth-only patrol hiking / camping. Scouts might still be able to patrol camping with legitimate registered / trained adult supervision. It's a troop activity with a selection of patrols equal to one patrol. Beyond that, it's about liability. #2 ... Question ... Can patrols still do non-camping activities without adult supervision? Go to the movies? Bowl? Socialize? Go to a state fair? I've been out for a few years now, but we always encouraged patrols to have a "patrol" activities and it was never overseen / reviewed by troop leadership. #3 ... Scouting still provides a huge benefit. Today's youth are couch surfers with organized activities. Youth are not comfortable roughing it out in nature and don't know how to handle quiet time. Scouting can fill a huge gap. It might not be the leadership training of the past. Perhaps, scouting is needed now to fill the gap of building confidence, stretching comfort zones and teaching skills by surviving the hardship of living in nature.

Advancement is always a special topic where troops are inconsistent because each unit has it's own flair. It's some of the best and worst in scouting. The position on "participate" sounds reasonable. Some may say standing and saluting is "participation". Others interpret as raising the flag or calling the ceremony. Generally though, advancement is not that interpretable. The words in the requirements are the criteria. That's clear in the Guide to Advancement. I always fear when the conversation pushes too far to the "troop can interpret". The boundaries of what is reasonable is pretty well written in the G2A. The above on "participate" for a flag ceremony sounds reasonable. As for troops can interpret advancement, be careful.

I suspect you are referring to the form used when changing charters. I've used that form to change charters. The charter org has to yield ownership of the scouting unit (i.e. the unit number). I suspect that specific form does not apply in this case as long as the departing unit is disbanding and members just join the target unit. As for asking the charter org and scouting council for permission to give scouting property of the unit, this hits the boundary for me with my "following the rules". Charter orgs and the scouting council almost never help raise funds or manage the finances or assets of the unit. Charter orgs are rarely involved. ... As one non-profit can donate to another non-profit, the unit leadership chooses to donate if they choose. Recommendation: Be careful asking too many people thoughts and opinions on it. You will get more opinions and emotions on it. Best you can do is work to make a smooth quiet transition and focus on creating great experiences for the scouts.

I am a rule follower. It's my personality. At some point, it gets ridiculous. But, Tron sounds right. Consider a full merger instead. Sitting on the fence about merging causes it's own trouble (coordination, emotions, cost of who pays for what, etc). A full merger is easier and better in the long run. And, you don't have to ask permission. It's just a member transfer from Pack X to Pack Y. As for assets (tents, cash, etc), Pack X donates their assets to Pack Y. No one will ask and it works smoother that way.

BSA high adventure camps have their place. I doubt we would have snorkeled and camped on a Florida island or sailed off the coast of Florida without them.

Not a comment about the scout and more a comment about Eagle Courts of Honor. ECOH are a show. The scripts are usually over-the-top. Specific parts of the scripts are almost always "wrong" as no-one is being awarded a rank. Maybe, "given" as here's the rank you were awarded two months ago. The scripts usually have something like ... "Now, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the National Council of Scouting America, I hereby award the rank of Eagle Scout to you." ... The person saying these words has no "authority" to "award". Worse, the scout has already been awarded the rank and should be wearing the Eagle rank on their uniform. Your choice is whether to attend the Eagle Court of Honor and / or participate in the ceremony.

I've said the exact same thing when I saw the Lion program piloted. Burns out parents. Creates the wrong perception of scouting. Wears out the teaching elements of scouting. It's just too, too much during the early baby sitting years. IMHO, scouting (cub or troop) should start when scouts begin to be somewhat independent. Kindergarten and first grade scouts are tied too too much to the parents.

I'm 100% okay with this. I'd celebrate getting the scouts outside their comfort zone and experiencing new things. My earlier response should probably not have been written during a work mtg.

Argumentative. Patrol includes the patrol leader. The connection between SPL and non-PL patrol members is the PL. The point of the original sentence was that the guidance for the patrol (including PL) is thru the SM and the SPL and that parents need to be careful trying to influence the patrol (both patrol leader and patrol member).

Well said. "with my father" ... I can respect that. I fear this might be a psychology of the troop and a BSA training conflict. Strictly speaking, scouts are to socialize with scouts in their scouting activities and then with the other adults. In conflict, I also attending most scouting activities with my kids, but I tried to keep myself on the outskirts ... mostly. ... It is a pull/push or a training vs reality issue. ... I'm not sure there is a perfect answer other than making sure the scouts have positive growing experiences. "adult leadership crosses over" ... is really up to the troop leaders you are joining. They may very well be open to your immediately getting into a leadership role. They may want you to wait a year. They may have some in-between. ... Number one thing is to make a healthy connection with the existing unit leaders.

100% agree. Changing troop culture is nearly impossible as a new parent. It takes years. ... So for now, ask yourself ... can your son benefit, grow and enjoy the culture that currently exists. Will your scout have a positive scouting experience? Adventure? There is no perfect troop culture, but even a less than ideal scouting troop can be a big positive. Separately, to make change, plan that it takes years. Start by serving the troop that exists now. Build friendships and connections. Over time, other leaders will see your investment in the troop. Once you have positive credibility with the troop, then you can take on roles such as SM/ASM where you can influence the culture. This takes years though. If you push too hard too fast, you will alienate people. Be careful here too. Patrols are guide by the SPL and SM. You risk alienating yourself and causing issues if your words and actions are not aligned with the SM. My apologies if I'm nit picking here. I'm not trying to be a jerk. ... BUT, your son is crossing over. It's his scouting experience. His adventure. You can look for ways you can help the troop. AND, your son will definitely see you value scouting if you volunteer to help. ... "I will be crossing over" is a red flag that always makes me think about does the adult realize the youth scout is to have their own scouting experience.

Do the scout stores stock the new "Scouting America" branded MB books? Wondering if free PDFs online is a reflection that it's cheaper to make free online than to stock all the scout stores.

WOW ! That is a exciting change. IMHO, I see nothing but good by having these available online. Great marketing by showing the high quality merit badge program. Maybe more MB pamphlets will be sold because the on-line content is so impressive. Sounds inverse to the immediate action, but I would not be surprised if it happens. Might market scouting to new audiences and thus drive more involvement. For example, home schooled families may borrow the pamphlets. Then, parents seeing scouting as an easy next step to supplement home schooling. If nothing else, this allows scouting to influence other organizations.