fboisseau

supermom, The BOR\Committee was way wrong. The requirement for Star is worded as follows. "Earn six merit badges, including any four from the required list for Eagle." It does not say that only 4 can be for Eagle it say that at least 4 must be from the Eagle required list. The Committee should of personally apologized to your son, and scheduled his BOR for the NEXT MEETING not a month later. If I were you I would attend the next Troop committee meeting and give them what for. Now some people might think, I am being to hard on the Committee member that made up the BOR, but keep in mind that a boy at this age is still think of adults as infallible (they are quickly getting over that false belief). We of course know that we are not, so when we do make a mistake we need to acknowledge that mistake ASAP and attempt to fix the problem ASAP. When we do not do this we are breaking a trust to the child and also not teaching them the correct way to handle their mistakes. Now back to our scheduled topic.

From what I understand you not only can help out, but should be encouraged to help out. One of the steps in passing a requirement in Venturing is to show/teach the skill to someone else and one of the areas that you can do this is to teach those skills to Cub Scouts.

I would be interested in working on that position. I have just not gotten arround to filling out the paperwork and am not sure when and how to submit the fees.

Twocubdad, I wish our council still did the WRC the way they do in your council. Unfortantly our council built this really nice Cub Camp next to the Boy Scout camp and now the WRC program has been trashed. With the old program a Webelos could get his Outdoorsman, Aquanaut, and Readyman during the 3-day period and still have plenty of time for fun, if the leader was smart. Now with the new program, under the control of people who think of all Cubs as Tigers, a Webelos only can get Readyman if the leader insists that First Aid instruct works on the requirements. I will admit that the air-conditioned mess hall is nice (but I also will state we had more problems with heat exhaustion) along with the flush toliets and private showers. Just give me a program for Webelos that prepare them for SRC and does not treat them like Tigers/Wolves.

Thanks Bob White. That should answer my wife's questions.

The problem I see with the campout you are looking at is that BSA wants the activities that the Webelos participate in are geared to their program and level. What you are doing at this campout is geared to Boy Scouts and their program. What I may suggest is first you look to see if there is a another campout that they can participate in that has activities that are geared to their program or could be with minimum changes. If that is not available add some activities to the program that are geared to the Webelos such as putting together a survival kit and putting up a tent using a tarp, and allow them to observe the other activities. Also keep in mind that Webelos should have their adult partner for the campout to help show them how to do things (not do things for them that they can do for themselves). Keep in mind that they probably have not been camping before and do not have other experienced Scouts in their patrol.

Bob White, Thanks for the information. I was not too concern about the quality more about the selection. For example do they provide options to aleast the main course if you do not like the primary one and things like that? Also is the meal cafeteria style or family style?

I am trying to talk my wife into going to the Training Center next year or the year after (if I can get an invitation). The only current problem is that both she and my daughter are picky eaters when it comes to food prepared for the masses (ie neither will eat cheese or enjoys a lot of the prepared frozen food out there). So my question is what types of food do they serve and how do they serve it?

I would say no. The reason being that the Scouts at Daycamp are doing a SERVICE to the district putting on the camp and part of Scouts is doing a GOOD TURN without expecting an award. If you were to start tipping, then the Scouts would start expecting it in the future and degrade the value they are earning in learning that helping others is an award in and of itself.

For me morality is not based on scripture, but making the choices that cause the least harm to society and yourself. In the two examples stated in the thread (homosexuality and sex outside of marriage) I have to come down against them because I see evidence that they harm society. First both examples are based on the presumption that if it feels good do it. This presumption in our society causes all sorts of social problems, including the following: transmission of diseases, the break-up of marriages (studies have shown that two opposite sex parents are necessary for well-adjusted children/future adults), drug use, alcohol abuse, poverty, and un-wed pregnancies. My beliefs does allow for the break-up a marriage for such things as abuse, because does society no good to have its citizens living in fear of others and abuse in the home teaches it to the children in the home. A course following this view is never easy because the right/moral thing is never easy.

My proudest moment so far in Scouts with my boy is when as a 2nd year Webelos getting ready to move on to Boy Scouts we were having an impromptu discussion about the Scout Law and what it means. He gave the best explanation I had ever heard of the cuff including that it applied even out side of Scouts. It was at that point that I understood that he had gotten it.

As someone that worked in a department store that did alteration for suits in the Men's Department I would add to the Tailor merit badge the requirement to know how to properly mark a suit for alteration.

The problem is not that your PLC is not planning enough of the details during the planing session, though setting dates might be a good idea instead of just what is done in each month, the problem is that they are not given the chance to finalize those plans throughout the year. I see this because it is a problem my troop also has, the Scouts say they want to do this on this date and then the Troop commitee/leaders take over and makes it happen. What we both need to do is too convince the commitee/leaders to work with the PLC so that each patrol is assigned events. The patrols will then finialize the plans and the adults only do those thing that they can not do for themselves, like make reservation. What I am planning to do is to suggest to the Adults that we first encourge the PLC to assign each event to a patrol to finalize the plans for, second that each partrol has a ASM assigned to it to prod the patrol along and to be a resource to help them answer question and to do those things they can not do themselves.

You can not have a Venturing Crew in a troop, you can only have a Venture Patrol (a patrol of older more skilled Scouts that particapate in high adventure trips, usually 13-18 years of age). A Venturing Crew is a total seperate unit/program from a Boy Scout troop, just like a Cub Scout Pack is a total seperate unit/program. The Venturing Program has it own awards, advancement and uniforming policies. The only links between a Crew and a Troop are the following. 1) They can have the same CO. 2) A Boy Scout that has reached 1st class or above in a Troop can continue working on his Eagle rank as a member of a Crew without maintaining membership in a Troop. 3) The members of a Crew or encourged to work with Troops and Packs as training resources for those units. Part of meeting each requirement is to teach the material to someone else.

Keep in mind the options that can be used for swimming for rank advancement in this case DO NOT qualify for replacement of the swimming requirements in G2SS. Those requirements are for safety and must be meet for the activity in question. As far as the swimming test at summercamp, if he feels that he can not even attempt it then he can take the test for beginner which is easier or be classified as a non-swimmer, and he will a course be only be allowed in the areas that he qualified for.

I made a PVC Frame the first time my son and I went to Scout summer camp. The version I made was simpler then the one already listed. What I did was for each end of the cot make a U shaped frame out of PVC. Each frame consisted of two uprights that were about 3-4 feet long, two 90-degree connectors and then a crosspiece the approximate width of the cot. The connectors can be glued to either the uprights or the crosspiece. The frame was attached to each end of the cot with 4 (two per leg) velcro wire ties, these were also used to keep each set together when dissembled. You can actually use only one set at the head of the cot and be quite comfortable.

First we continue to have Pack meeting each month during the summer. Second we provide some sort of activity each month during the summer (June, July, August). These events have included some of the following: camping trips fishing a local BSA camp overnights at or trips to local museums pool party at a local pool We also take advantage of the Council Cub Scout resident camp and the district Day Camp, plus the local minor league baseball teams has every year a Scout Day, where Scouts and Leaders get in free if they are in uniform.

I got the Life or Eagle Scout requirement from the person who is running Day Camp for our district who looked it up with me standing there in his Day Camp Manual printed by BSA. I assume he had the current one since he had just complete training for the Day Camp director.

I recently came across one of those BSA regulations that seem to be extreme, to me, when it comes to safety or other reasons. It seems that to be on youth staff for Cub Day Camp you must be 14 years old and a Life or Eagle Scout. Now I can see the requirements being set to this level if the Scout was going to be running the stations, but in most cases that I have observed the youth staff is helping two or more adults with setup, clean up, and keeping the Cubs on task. I can also see these requirements being necessary they were assisting with an area that was inherently dangerous such as waterfront, archery, or BB's, but most of the station are arts and crafts, or informational. There are other similar programs in my area (vacation bible school being one) that uses kids 11 years and older to assist the instructors, I have a hard time understanding why the BSA is so restrictive in this area. I will also be honest and state the reason that I was checking into this was because I was trying to convince my son to work at day camp for the experience. So there is a little feeling on my part as to why my son can not get this experience now, when he might still be open to doing it.

BobWhite, I am not trying to lower the minimal legal requirement, I am trying to find out what that minimal legal requirement is. I always will advocate that a leader has 2 deep leadership at a meeting for various reason's including safety. What I want to know is if 2 deep is the legal limit, which means if it can't be met for extra ordinary reason the leader must abort the meeting at that point and send the scouts home, or if it is not the legal limit, which means the meeting could continue to its logical conclusion. One example of these extra ordinary reason is the following true event that happen when I was a assistant den leader. The den leader's, at the time, son stepped on a peice of glass 5 minutes before the meeting was to start and had to go with him to the hospital. Now luckly at that time due to the size of the wolf den (12 boys) we had 3 leaders at the meetings and so we were able to maintian 2 deep leadership. But if we could not have maintain 2 deep leadership would the rules of the BSA have required us to try to contact the parents (some of whom may not have been reachable for whatever reason) and have them pickup their kids ASAP or would the rules of BSA allowed the single leader to continue the meeting. Keep in mind that one of the reasons for this post is that I have heard both positions in YP training (I have taken the video training at least 3 times and the on-line training once) and as a fairly new district Webelos leader trainer I want to make sure I have the correct information. Which reminds me I should check my Webelos training material and see if it clarifies the position, but I am pretty sure it points to G2SS which so far has not been able to clarify this issue.

I still have not seen any agreement on what the policy stays on my posted situtations. BobWhite or dsteele I would sure like to have your opinion on this.

littlebillie I am sorry if I offended you with my last post, my attempt there was to show that I accepted your position and in that I must have failed. So here it goes again. If I understand you correctly, your position is that the BSA has the right to exclude homosexuals if they want to, but you personally believe that they should include them. If also understand you correctly, you also have not given up on trying to convince the BSA to change their policy thru debate. I also understand that you do not support any of the strong arm tactics that are used by other groups to get the BSA to change their policy, such as that I listed in my previous post. If these statements are correct then I have no problem with you personally and your position on this issue, or any one that thinks like you do. I also do not have a problem with the legal cases brought by Merlyn_LeRoy and others like him when they believe that the BSA steps over the lines set by the courts of this country. What I have a problem with is the attitude in this country, mainly the liberal side but also on the right, that says because you disagree with our group and we could not get you to change your opinion by debate we will destroy you. Again littlebillie I do not see you in this group on this issue based on what I know.

littlebillie, Regarding the following "fboisseau - "But according to your logic with the BSA I have to be made a member to your group." No - the 'have to be' would seem to be in your head. In mine, it's "should be" and in mine, the BSA should not be forced to change, but persuaded to do so. Basically, there are no exclusions in the Charter, and the BSA should realize it's closing the door on those kids who arguably need it most. ". I disagree with how you state the position of the groups that want to change the rules. If I believe that someone or some group "SHOULD" do something then I express my opinion and the reasons behind my opinion and if they still disagree I will continue the discussion or leave it alone if I believe that we will never agree. If I feel strongly enough about the issue, I will not associate with that person or group in the future. If on the other hand I believe that someone or some group "HAS TO" do something I would use any legal options that I have to make it happen. For example I would take the party to court, lobby other groups that may fund this party (except the government, that money is all ours and we each have a say to how it is spent) to remove funding, and even take my case to the public by any means necessary to FORCE the party to change their mind. I can see from your post you fall in the "SHOULD" change category and I support your right to have that opinion. On the other hand the homosexual lobbing groups falls in the "HAS TO" group because they apply the techniques that I listed above, the same ones I would apply if I believe a party "HAD TO" change what it was doing. I can accept that some people may not like the BSA policy. What I can not accept is the strong-arm tactics that are used to "FORCE" the BSA or any group to change their policy. One final point, in a similar line of thought, how many people have noticed that when a conservative speaker at a college was forced off the stage, it was called Freedom of Speech and diversity by the student body. But when the same techniques where applied to liberal anti-war speakers, everyone was up in arms about how the speakers Freedom of Speech was infringed upon and how diversity was destroyed. In the same line of thought, we have a group that is based on a certain moral code, people join together to destroy it and those on the left are all for it. But if I try to destroy a group that has membership rules that I disagree with because it excludes me, but is a darling of the left, I would get vilified in the worst way. Littlebillie, I understand your opinion that BSA should allow homosexuals, I support your right to have that opinion, but I disagree with that opinion and the BSA disagrees with that opinion. Now I can guarantee you, that besides debate, I will not use any method I can to change your opinion. I also can be sure that besides telling you to go away that the BSA will not use any method to change your opinion. If that is true why should those who agree with you attack the BSA for their opinion. When a group of people believe they are so right about a subject that they will use all methods to destroy those who disagree with them they are no longer in the right. This country was founded on the right for each person or group of persons to come up with their own opinions on any issue. I believe in this right and am willing to debate anyone I disagree with, but I will not FORCE anyone to change his or her opinion on a subject. Please, tell those who are trying to destroy the BSA, extend the same treatment to them.

littlebillie, "it stops when every decent, ethical law-abiding boy has access to scouting... " Decent.......by whose standards? Ethical......by whose standards? Law-abiding..by whose standards? Yours? For example you may believe that co-ed skinny-dipping is not decent, but I see no problem with it (I do not really but keep in mind this is an example) and participate whenever I have a change and promote it also. Now your club/group say people who believe like I do should not be a member because I do not live up to your standard of decency. But according to your logic with the BSA I have to be made a member to your group.

fotoscout, I do not look at a child who has behavior problems and immediately point the finger at the parent and say they are the problem. I instead look at how the parent handles the behavior problems. If the parent says sorry about his/her behavior, but he/she is ADHD or some other condition, and we can not do anything with him/her then the parent is the problem. There are always solutions to behavior problem including commitment at a treatment facility (I know this is extreme, but my family is providing emotional support to someone who this was the solution). When a parent will do anything, short of abuse, to work with their child to correct behavioral problems, then the problem is not with the parent, but when a parent says sorry we can not do anything then the parent is the problem. This parent is taking the latter approach. As Scout leaders we are not trained to deal with kids with these types of problems. We are trained to provide a fun and safe environment that can be used by parents to reinforce what they are teaching at home including how to behave.