emb021

"he told me that the man in charge at National of the entire event died unexpectedly late last year" Yes, John Alline, the Jamboree Director, passed away in November/December of last year. In addition, the National Office is in a bit of a chaotic state due to yet another internal re-org PLUS the movement of the Regional offices into the National Office. A LOT of balls seem to be dropped of late. (like, where is the January Jamboree newsletter we were promised).

This has been posted elsewhere, but AFAIK, the general plan is: 2011- Indian Summer 2012- NOAC 2013- National Jamboree 2014- open (maybe another arrowcorps like event?) 2015- NOAC/OA 100th Anniversary I won't even get into the discussion of WHERE these upcoming NOAC may be. That's pretty much up in the air.

Well, my ex-boss showed me his new Moto Droid phone. One of the apps is a flame. So, with many 'smartphones' your phone can be: * your watch (is mine) * your alarm clock (i've used it for that) * your flashlight * your GPS * your camera (used it for that in a pinch now and then) * your web browser (used it for that at times, useful once to check my yahoo email for a meeting to ensure I was at the right time/place/date). Also used to update my FB status. With people scattered around, they will be a great way to communicate. At NOAC they used them to alert everyone to severe weather and to get to shelter. When you are in a staff group and not everyone is in the same location, great way to connect with them.

"I presume its the SM as NYLT is not supposed to use the term CD any longer (not sure why, just what we were informed)." Yes, he was the NYLT SM. My typo. ""One of the requirements to earn the fourth bead is for the NYLT SM to serve as TG on Wood Badge; he's satisfied all the other requirements. We'd like to present the beads to him when the rest of the Wood Badge staff receive their beads." Personally, I wouldn't do that. A fourth bead for Wood Badge is for the Course Director. If the other TGs are getting their 3rd bead, I think your NYLT SM should be getting his third bead along with his peers. He should be wearing 3 for the course anyway. Does he already have 3, or is he taking a leap straight from 2 to 4?" I don't have the requirements for the NYLT SM to get their fourth bead, but YES, they must be a 3rd beader. Part of the requirement for them to get a third bead is to have served as a Troop Guide on a WB course (which would get them a 3rd bead, if they didn't already have it). There is another thread here on the requirements for NYLT staffers to get a 3/4 bead. I recommend you go read that. Its official and in the current NYLT syllabus.

"Hmmm..... Woodbadge Beads because of NYLT staffer..... "How do you earn Woodbadge beads by not participating in Woodbadge?" Because the NYLT Course is so close to Wood Badge, about a year ago, it was setup such that CERTAIN NYLT staffers can get a third bead and NYLT Course Directors can get a fourth bead. They STILL have to go thru WB as a participant. There are clearly stated National policy on what they must do for this. I would think this is covered when they go thru the REQUIRED NYLT CDC at Region. BTW, we just presented our recent NYLT CD with his fourth bead at our Wood Badge Breakfast.

"Where did they get our emails?" they're the government. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. (that's a joke, btw).

""To go on any trail at Philmont you will need to do the full Trek version of their physical." "While we were at PTC last year we were able to hike quite a few trails on the Philmont Trek side. There were no restrictions and no special physical was needed - just the standard PTC physical." While you just need a PTC physical, there ARE restrictions. When I was there in 08, they said I couldn't go on any of the trails. I took a look at my physical to determine that. Not sure if it was my weight or other factors.

I assume you have received your letter of acceptance, which means you have a position. Most people seem to be getting notices now about reporting dates. Which is good as we will need to start making our plans and reporting them soon, including making bus reservations (if flying). If you got a note from the person in charge of your group, I would recommend you contact them. Some groups are good or bad about this. Don't blame National per say, as its up to your staff group to do some of this.

Staff members are required to send theirs in by March 1, so no, its not strange.

As noted yes. I know of many scouters who do that. I would say that one should avoid confusing people by 'mixing' your uniform. (or uniform items). While serving as a DL, wear blue loops, your unit numbers and DL patch. While serving as a DC member, wear silver loops, no unit numbers and DC patch. Either use velcro to switch insignia, or invest in several shirts. (this assumes you want to wear a uniform noting that you are a DC.)

"Before a Scout earns his Totin chip can he use a pocket knife with the troop he joins?" No. That's part of the purpose of earning Totin' chip, to learn how to properly handle a knife. Until then, he shouldn't carry one. "Will the troop require that he has a whittling chip or does that only apply to Cub Scouts?" Whittlin' Chip is for Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. I would say that a Boy Scout needs to earn Totin' chip, but I guess that could depend on the troop in question. Why not ask them?

"When a Webelos Scout crosses over to Boy Scouts does the Scout need to have a whittling chip to use a pocket knife in the troop? Does he have to wait for the Totin chip?" AFAIK, yes, he would. Not sure what you mean by 'wait'. Most troops try to make sure their new scouts get their Totin' chip pretty quickly. I earned it on my first troop camping trip. Nothing says they can't do this at a troop meeting either. I think if troops are bringing in Webelos toward the end of the school year, it would be done that way or when they send them to their summer camp's "First Year Camper" program.

"Again, like all else I've said here, this is just my opinion, but the Vigil Honor should have no special device, patch, flap, ect, save the sash alone. If a special insignia is required to identify a Vigil Honor member, the honor may have been bestowed in error." Actually, the Vigil Honor has LONG had special devices. In the old days of Lodges having special pins, Lodges would make one with the Vigil Honor triangle on it. These pretty much fell out of favor in the 60s, I believe. (you can see a display of these at the OA Museum @ NOAC, btw) We continue to have the small Vigil Honor triangle pin. You may wear this pinned to the middle of the universal arrow ribbon worn off the right pocket. When one does not wear the sash, this is the only way to identify one as a VH member. It can also be used for civilian wear, but I've really never seen this. For me (as a VH member) that's good enought for me. I understood this as a scout, and as a scouter & VH member, that's just fine.

Having seen the 'discussion' on the jambo list AND their use at NOAC, I would agree with your point about "Contingent leaders will have to make rules about their use, obviously, and parents should be strictly forbidden to call except in emergencies, etc, but all those things are doable, seems to me." is a better thing then banning them outright. If the scouts properly use them (ie, not be on them all the time, but be on hand for their leaders to contact them as needed and for emergencies and the like, they shouldn't be banned. Frankly, I can't think of any NOAC contingent banning them, even before their heavy use at this past NOAC. Maybe the difference is most NOAC contingents are older boys as compared to Jamboree contingents, and prehaps a different mind set of lodge advisers vs scoutmaster types...

"Actually Girl Scouts are indeed Scouts. The "Scouts" in their name is a clue. "If they were Guides they would be called Girl Guides. " Actually, Girl Scouts of the USA are part of the world-wide Guide movement, NOT the Scout movement. "GSUSA - member of WAGGGS - World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts" WAGGGS is so named because SOME Girl Guide associations decided to call themselves 'girl scouts' and not 'girl guides'. But they STILL are part of the world guide movement. Their symbol is the trefoil NOT the fleur-de-lis.

"The real question lies within the word Scouting. Is the BSA refering to itself or itself and Girl Scouts? " The Girl Scouts aren't part of Scouting. They are part of Guiding, a different, tho related, Movement. My cousin did his Eagle Project at a Girl Scout camp.

Well, my council will be getting a new SE. Ours got bumped up to Region. The new one will start around April. I assume they are looking for the replacement now. Our Field Director is also leaving to take on the position of SE for Pueblo, CO.

"As I can see, things are getting all twisted again. Where in any official BSA rules or regs or bylaws does it state what day & time a specific unit meets, Frank? Where in any official BSA rules or regs or bylaws does it state what a specific unit charges for dues (if any), Frank? Where in any official BSA rules or regs or bylaws does it state when permission slips for outing for a specific unit is due, Frank? " Yes, I would agree that these things need to be documented (as others have stated). These don't go into bylaws. Bylaws document certain information about organizations (for instance, that you pay dues, that you have meetings). But certain kinds of information DON'T go into bylaws (dues amount, time/place of meetings). Instead, these go into the organizations "standing rules". Some organizations may have further "policies", such as risk management policies and the like. These are all separate documents from bylaws. Should units document this sorts of things? YES Should units call these bylaws or put them into some kind of 'bylaws' document? NO As someone else noted, these sorts of things can go into a simple 1-2 page "unit policies" document that would put into writing things like time/place of meetings, dues amount, etc. You know, part of our 'job' as adult leaders is teaching our scouts. All our scouts will most likely be joining organizations in college and in life that use bylaws. Why can't we as adult leaders teach them the correct things about bylaws rather then the nonsense I see here from too many. I've encountered too many scouts who have been told misleading and just flat out wrong information about parliamentary procedure and bylaws, either from well meaning, but unknowleable adults or adults who were misinformed themselves. This means that orgs that use parlypro & bylaws that they don't just have to teach their new members this information, but many times have to 'unteach' their new members of thier bad information.

I have to agree with Tokala (we're from the same section, but don't know who he is). YES, there are many in the OA whose knowledge of indian lore is sadly lacking. We've all seen those people. But to slander the people involved with the AIA staff at NOAC & Jambo is a bit much. I'm not sure about other Sections, but I think in my Section, the people teaching the AIA courses at our Conferences & Seminars are all top notch people. The people they select for AIA staff at NOAC & Jambo are amoung the best of the best in this area. Several are in fact native americans. And most have been involved in this activity for years if not decades.

"Seems to me that the collarless shirts in the 70's were only available as long sleeve shirts." Nope. I also wore the collarless shirts in the late 70s. They were all short-sleeved shirts. "The drawback to the collarless shirts is you had to wear neckers." Not really a draw back. The intent was that the scout was to wear the neckerchief. I always hated neckerchiefs, so when I found I could get a collared shirt, I went with that and wore bolo ties. When we moved to wearing the ODR shirts, I continued to wear bolo ties for years until I went to Wood Badge and got my beads.

"Call 'em Rules & Policies or Parent Guides or It's The Way We Do It but they are the same as bylaws. Semantics! " Nonsense!! Bylaws are not the same thing as rules/polices. See CalicoPenn's recent note. He said pretty much everything I would have on Bylaws. I am a member of several organizations, most of which are local chapters of national organizations. ALL of them have bylaws, including the local groups. Bylaws are a must. But not for troops/packs.

"I would suggest that anyone considering bylaws to first attempt to read Robert's Rules of Order. That should stop any notion that bylaws serve any purpose." Ha ha ha. Probably the most ridiculous thing I've read on this thread. As a parliamentarian, I've read Robert's Rules. Every organization I am a member of has bylaws. They are a must for all organizations, as is clear from RONR. They clearly define a great deal about an org. Without it, you really don't have an organization. Scout troops don't have bylaws not because they are bad, but because they are a subset of the BSA, and BSA policy pretty much covers everything that would be in a unit's bylaws. Other information about a unit would be better in a set of 'standing rules' or 'policies' then in bylaws.

"Trust the people that da parents are trusting to take their kids into the wild. Tryin' to write this sorta thing on a national basis across youth from ages 5 to 20 is goin' to fail, eh? It's goin' to do more damage than good." Well, I think that had this been done in the past, this might never had been a problem. Am sure that most troop had reasonable (tho probably undocumented) 'active policy' such kids who were clearly 'not active' weren't able to advance. And there were probably some troop that went with percentages. And a few who abused the concept. But when parents complain or appeal to councils due to ANY denial of their 'little darlings' getting advancement because they weren't active (regardless of how the troops were handling it), National reacted with the nonsense 'active = registered' policy we've been dealing with since. I personally blame 'helicopter parents' then overstrick troops in this problem.

They actually created a special one-piece 22 unit number for Brownsea Double-2. It was in the same color scheme as the "Brownsea" strip: yellowish lettering, border on brown material. Sadly, I don't have a complete Brownsea Double-2 syllabus. I got what I thought was a complete All Out for Scouting syllabi off eBay, but found that most of the Brownsea section was missing.

"I came across this recent video with a youth wearing the BROWNSEA strip between the CSP and unit numbers and and BROWNSEA temp insignia." When Brownsea Double-Two was rolled out as part of the "All Out For Scouting" program, the youth were to strip their uniform (much as the adults were to strip their uniform for WB) by wearing the Brownsea strip in place of their RWS, and a special one-piece "22" patch in place of their unit number. This was to be done ONLY for the Brownsea course, removing the strip and numeral after the course and restoring their normal RWS, unit numbers, etc. (just as adults in WB would restore their uniform after WB, or youth restore their uniforms after their Jamboree troop was over). Since Brownsea Double-Two stopped being an official training event in the late-70s/early-80s, doing this would no longer be kosher. Sadly, some council who choose to call their JTLC/NYLT/etc course 'Brownsea', think its ok to still do this. I don't think so.