emb021

It will be several months before most of us would get to see it. Same happened with the new Guide to Advancement. A select group got to see it, but were not allow to show it to others before it was available on-line and then soon in print.

"A leader who doesn't earn the "natural" adjective is basically a guy with a title (or in BSA terms, a patch on his sleeve). One way or another he's been declared the leader, but does a terrible job actually providing any leadership. He's a de jure leader, not a de facto one (Beavah, did I spell them lawyerin' words right?). He's been granted some sort of official authority, but to the extent people follow him it's out of obligation rather than desire." Some people are leaders because they hold a position (or title or patch). Some people are leaders because of how they conduct themse

Back in the 40s and 50s they spoke of charter orgs having the 'whole scouting family': chartering a pack, troops, & post or ship. Recommended was having a single committee to oversee the whole thing. In other countries, (for instance the UK), they have the concept of a 'group': a pack, troop, etc under a single group, lead by a group scoutmaster, etc.

"MT: We're still trying to figure out the implications of this Venturing District. But it maps with "facts on the ground." Venturers aren't as geographically locked as Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. They make tight associations with youth on the opposite ends of council (and area, region, nation, and world) and seek out activities in and provide service to districts other than their own. They have this proclivity to venture beyond district boundaries (go figure). We're just trying to tap that and make it work more smoothly for the unit leaders (who still are more than welcome to go to their local

Its long been National policy that you are only allowed to be a member of ONE lodge. I've been involved with 2 councils, however, I am only a member of one lodge.

Scout Stuff wis the name of the book. Its about scout memorabilia, not BSA's on-line store. http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Scouts-America-Scout-Stuff/dp/0756688736/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326315356&sr=1-1

Have to agree. They didn't point out the 'other' high awards of scouting: Quartermaster, Ranger, Silver (both Explorer and Venturing). I was surprised by their selection of some insignia for the other programs.

Eagle92's excellent article is one I would agree with. First off, yeah, there are a LOT of arrowmen who have horrible outfit and poor knowledge. There ARE, however, many arrowmen who have great knowledge. Some (like me) are amateur historians/anthropologists and work hard to research things and share our knowledge. Several of us work with professionals in the field AND some of the local tribes, many of who respect us for the work we do. Many arrowmen are involved in historical re-enactments, many alongside 'real' native americans, and they don't have an issue with what we do and o

"Interesting that when they are pushed on the issue they fall back on what as a defense---- that being selected for OA is an honor for adults. " Sigh. There are honors and then there are honors. Again, being selected for the OA is NOT like Silver Beaver, et al. An adults IS being honored by selection. But its NOT for what they have done (again and again, that is the purpose of honors like Silver Beaver et al), but because of what it is hoped they will bring to the Order and the youth in it. We do NOT want adults who will be 'sash and dash', who feel that getting in is the

"Interesting point. Presumably female Scout Executives and District Executives are eligible for OA membership. And female adult Scout leaders. Just no female youth members. " Interesting point? Not really. To be eligible as a youth to join the OA (ie under 21) you must have First Class. This bars all female venturers. There is no problem with adult female scouters being selected. This was a chance that occurred about 20 years or so ago, when National opened the last 6 adult positions to females, and all the lodges in my area have many female arrowmen, many of whom are V

I thought troopmaster including Venturing stuff. But have no experience with it.

Bummer. Am a Toastmaster and was gearing up to give speeches such that I could earn the knot.

"What a shame! For thirty years I felt honored to have been nominated for OA as an adult. Now I discover that was a mistake and rather than feeling honored I should have been told my function was to be a driver and grunt laborer. " SP- you seem hellbent on finding some way to get upset about the Order. Rather then trying to come up with some explanation, I think it might be a good idea to go back to basics. Here is what the current "Guide for Officers and Advisors", an official publication of the Order says about adult selection into the order. QUOTE- Recommendations of the

"Scouting is all about cheerful service." While this is true, there are some who don't get it. And sadly for some people you need to be a bit blunt about it. "But telling adults that you aren't wanted except as a car driver and grunt laborer is demeaning and entirely the wrong attitude, in my opinion. " You're entitled to your opinion. But the issue, IMO, isn't the attitude but maybe the expression of it. The thing is, as adults in the Order, our job is to advise and SUPPORT the youth in THEIR PROGRAM. Note that. Advise and support the youth. More so th

"> "Frankly, I'd consider this ample good reason for a troop to drop OA. You're handing adults a broom and a dustpan and asking them to smile. "I am decidedly unimpressed whenever I hear someone repeating this line. " SP- wrong attitude. The point of this is that Adults are NOT nominated to the OA as an award or recognition, which is something that happens too many times. We have awards and recognitions for adults (DAM, Silver critters, etc etc.). OA Membership is NOT. As adults, we are there to help the OA and the youth to succeed. Most of the active and

Have to echo what SR540Beaver. there is no requirement for 2-deep leaders from the troops for OA events in my section to my knowledge.

Eagle92 hit all the points I would have made. Especially #1 and 2.

I have a published copy of the "Insignia Guide". (it may be the last one) It shows 2 different sleeve placements for the Centennial uniform (ie the one with the sleeve pocket) and the ODL and I guess the new uniform (ie the ones WITHOUT the sleeve pocket). This is important, as the placement of the office patches, trained strip, and commissioner arrowhead will change depending on whether or not the uniform as a sleeve pocket or not.

"Does anyone know of a skeptical analysis of Leadership Development theory that links concepts like "innovation," "thinking outside the box," and "group development" theory with magical thinking and the recent 7.7 trillion dollar bailout?" Well, of course not. The bailout has ZILCH to do with those concepts. It had more to do with poor economic ideas and political thinking. Also, what IS "leadership development theory"??? Does it exist or are you just making it up? There are various concepts about leadership development. Some are complementary, some are not. There is no

"But after the ordeal, there's not much for the OA members other than to say they are in the OA or to help administer OA." Really? Yeah, for most lodges, ordeals can be their biggest events, but its not their own event. Keep in mind Lodges are told NOT to have too many events. But most good lodges will have about 4 weekend events a year. You will have ordeal, service events at camp (before and/or after summer camp), work/fellowship events in the fall and spring, and usually a banquet. The Lodges are encouraged now to do more service work in the community. There is the On

How can the venturing uniform go "back to the scout uniform", when it never WAS the scout uniform??? Sounds like an unfounded rumor to me. Heard NOTHING about this on any on-line forum. I think we would have. Venturing uniform still available from Scoutstuff. Have the Scout Shop people back up this claim with something official and in writing.

well, its too late to complain. Sometime after this was announced, we finally got 'the rest of the story'. Apparently this came from the National Committee. They gave an ultimatum to the National Youth Cabinet: either the VLA Awards become youth-only, or they go away entirely. Well, I'd rather have them youth-only then totally gone, but I think the National Committee was wrong on this. As I've said before, there are many dedicated adults in venturing who, because they don't have high enough positions, will be more or less automatically overlooked for other adult awards like th

"If the CD or staff are involved there will be no ceremony." Well, don't know how its done in your council, but in mine, the ceremony isn't necessarily done by the CD & staff. In my council, it goes like this: The scribe for the course is informed you have completed the course, thus getting the records updated and releasing the beads, woggle, necker. Arrangements are then made with the participant regarding the ceremony (as I noted, when and where). Usually the guide is the point person for this. And wood badgers are lined up to put it on. Ideally your troop guide should

"So let me get this straight. You plan your own ceremony??????? " Not sure what you mean by "plan your own ceremony". The Wood Badge people will plan and carry out the ceremony. You, the candidate, does not do this. What is usually done is they ASK you WHEN & WHERE you would like the ceremony to be done. Most people want the ceremony done at a time and place that is most meaningful to them. One patrol I knew worked to all get their tickets done, and the ceremony was held for the whole group at a Camporee (at a location that anyone could come to, but no so as it i

Oh, please. Your childish hatred of leadership skills is silly. Anyone can use leadership skills, from the patrol leader up to the CEO. Such skills are not limited to those in the business/corporate environment. We know a LOT more about leadership then in B-P's time. I doubt the IOC issue was with "leadership skills". I won't be surprised if the problem was a bunch of business types trying to apply business management concepts (which, btw, leadership and leadership development is NOT part of) in a non-profit group. That is usually a recipe for disaster.