Eamonn

I think someone, I'm unsure who? (I think it was a Judge??) said that he couldn't define pornographic material, but knew it when he seen it. Much the same can be said about bullying. While I agree that not everything that is perceived as being unfair or not right is always bullying. As we know sometimes kids and adults are not always kind. Sometimes things are just the way they are. When picking teams for a game where each team leader selects one player at a time, someone has to be the last person selected. This last player might feel bad that he is the last person to be selected, but the truth is that someone has to last, just as someone has to be first. However when the team leader makes a comment about having to have this last person on his team, such as "Oh no we got you!" This might be seen as a mild form of bullying. "Put downs" can be a form of bullying. Even if they are true. Telling little Tim that he is only good enough to get the water at camp because he can't cook. Might be true, but how the message is delivered comes into play. I have had Patrol Leaders who have tried to rule the roost by being a bully, using threats and intimidation to lead their Patrol. Sometimes this does get the job done! Rarely if ever do the threats end resulting in being anymore than just talk. Still as a SM or adult leader I know that this is not the way things ought to be and step in. Mainly by talking with the PL and explaining the error of his ways. To my mind the bold print in the G2SS deals with more malicious bullying, where the intend and the result is where someone is harmed and the person doing the bullying has the intent of doing harm. Eamonn

Nearly all of these units were at one time "HUD Units", in low income housing. Of course after "The Memo" there was a rush to find new CO's. The person who served as the FOS Community Chair. Is deeply involved in the local Lions Club. The Lions became a CO. The Lions have no idea who the unit is! Where it meets! In fact know next to nothing about the unit. I'm not exactly sure how it works (Maybe Bob White does?) But somehow, someway the charter doesn't have the names of the youth on it. The argument for this is that the families are transient. Back when I was District Chairman, I was very unhappy with having these units listed as part of the District. I argued that the District played no part in these units. We never played any part in starting them, the leader is an employee of the Council, we never provided any type of service to these units and they never got involved in any District activities. The guy we have now does try to do his job. In the past the Council tried to staff this with people involved in the Americore program, one of these paid volunteers went MIA and it seems no one noticed for six months. We also had at one time a Scoutreach Venturing unit /Crew also staffed by a Americore volunteer. This was in a juvenile detention center. I went to visit and the Director was a very unhappy camper. I was the first person to go there from the Council in over 18 months. There as far as I can see seems to be no plans to do anything more than what is being done. While one meeting a month (But not in the summer as the guy who does this works at Summer Camp during the Summer) might be better than nothing? There is no real Scouting program, which is in some ways understandable being that at any given meeting there might be more five year old girls than boys of Cub Scout age there. What is sad is that in the areas there are a good number of churches that are attended by mainly a African-American congregations. I think given the opportunity and maybe offering the adults some help to pay for training, uniforms, books and program material with some help from traditional units and using the OA program, we could really make more of an impact and in time move these type of units to become established traditional units. Of course on paper membership would take a big hit. Numbers would drop. In another area of the Council a friend of mine tried to start traditional type units in a mainly African-American area. He ran into problems finding black men who didn't have a criminal record, mainly convictions for drug use when they were young. He was told to drop it and leave it alone. Some of our DE's refuse to go into these areas! They feel that they are unsafe. While I don't have the answer! I do feel that we as an organization need to look at hiring a more diverse workforce. I do know that the Council that Ed serves did at one time have a African-American District Director who was charged with community relations. I served on on our Area Committee which serves 13 Councils, while our Regional guy is black few if any of the 13 Councils have a DE of color. While of course people who serve at the unit level should put the unit they serve and the Scouts they serve first, there is a need for Councils and professional staff to make real plans to get into areas that don't have a scouting presence and see what can be done, this might mean inviting established units to offer a helping hand. Maybe with some sort of mentoring program for these units, maybe by offering to camp with these units offering them the use of equipment. I was overjoyed when Wood Badge took on diversity. I'm sure this has been a real eye opener for some. Eamonn.

Our Council employs a person part time to look after these units. He is a nice fellow, but at best he holds meetings once a month. We don't have any Scoutreach Troops only Packs. The meetings tend to be attended by any kid who has time to attend (Boys, girls of just about any age). They meet do some sort of a craft have a drink of juice and that's it till next month. Eamonn.

Ohio_Scouter, You are of course so right. In fact this was in many ways what I was trying to say. I am indeed very grateful to all who serve our youth. Along with those who served me when I was a Lad. Still I do wish that "We" as an organization could do more to get into areas where Scouts and Scouting could do so much for the kids that are there. Sadly it seems that many Councils use programs like Scoutreach to boost membership numbers, with no real plan to get these units to move from Scoutreach to becoming traditional units. Of course the community leaders in these areas have to want the program. We (The BSA) might need to take a look at maybe lowering the requirements for adult leaders in these areas? Or maybe looking at the LFL program so that it can in more ways mirror the Scouting program? Without the .... shall we say "Baggage"? Anyway I really don't want to hijack the thread. Eamonn.

Right now I'm in Jail!! Good thing is that I do get to pass go and do collect my $200.00! (And have a get out of jail free card!) I'm involved with just about every aspect of Inmate Food Service: Teaching Inmates and Staff ServSafe courses. Diets for the general population, therapeutic diets. Anything that has to do with food seems to land on my desk. I spend my day locked up with about 1,000 convicted criminals! You name a crime and we have someone who has committed it (Well Almost!!) The strange thing is even after you get to know these guys and like them you know that you can never trust them. Security and security concerns always have to come first. Just working in a State Correctional Facility has made me feel so very blessed that Scouts and Scouting has been and is around for me and for OJ. I see so many young people who have got involved in gangs and drugs, which has at times led them into more violent crimes. Yesterday I was talking with a Lad the same age as OJ (19) who is serving a double life sentence for murder. He is still a cocky young thing. Later I was talking with a guy who is in for life (Also for murder.) He has served 26 years. He has no one on the "Outside" While he is by no means insane, his entire life is now what happens within the jail. I couldn't help but think that when the 19 year -old is 45 he will be the same way. I'm so very grateful that there are people who care enough about other peoples kids that they are willing to help them. My Thanks to all of you for what you do. My great wish is that we as an organization could do more to go into areas where Scouting could do more to help prevent kids from ending up eating the heart healthy diet (Nut free!!) That we provide for our inmates. Eamonn.

I'm not happy with the "Ask your ?" routine. I think it sets a bad example. I think you need to work backward. Look for the reason why you are being asked? Communication is the giving and receiving of information. While I don't know! I think that the Troop Barry serves is a well established Troop where some things are well established. Trying to play the "Ask your Boatswain" when you (The Skipper) have a fair idea that the Boatswain doesn't know the answer is just kinda silly. It does little to build up the leadership skills of the Boatswain and confuses the Scouts. As for tips. *Keep on keeping on reminding the Scouts that the Ship is their Ship. (Not your's!!) *Keep reminding yourself that the Ship belongs to the Scouts. This can be hard when things that you feel they should attend or even must attend come along. (Things like the Winter Training Weekend, Regatta??) * Don't overload the Boatswain. He is after all only one member of the Quarterdeck. At times you might need to remind him to remind the person who is tasked with getting something done. * Hold people responsible for doing what they are supposed to do and what they say they are going to do. * Go back and look at the notes you took at WB!! * Look back at how information was managed. * Set the example by passing on (delegating) and sharing information and tasks sent to you as the Skipper. Let the QD decide what they want to participate in, have someone send out the information and get the count have the Purser collect the cash and write the check. After the event in the Ship's Log have the Yeoman record what happened and write any letters that need to be sent. He or she might want to write something for the Ship's web site or group page? * We the adults can pass on a lot by really listening to the Scouts, doing what we say we are going to do (Keeping promises.) * Go out of your way to recognize Scouts who do a good job. Be sure to thank them and praise the heck out of them, both privately and in public. One problem I see with the "Go ask your..." Is that some Scouts might feel slighted or feel that you don't care. Trying to ensure that the information they need is at hand and is understandable (To them!!) can help a lot. So you can without sounding like a smart-Alec say "Have you checked the .. Menu, roster? Will go a long way. (Better yet if the information has been put there by a Scout !!) None of this is going to happen overnight, it will take time and just when you think it's working a new group of Scouts will come along and ... Good Luck!! Eamonn.

Where the heck is Boy George, when we need him? Ea.

Hi and Welcome, Please don't think I'm nit picking. There is one little thing that has been bugging me a bit since I read this. That is " our boys have tried to talk to him" I can't help thinking that if he has joined the Troop he is one of the "Our boys". I'm also working on how if he has just recently joined the Troop;"some of the boys refuse to share a tent with him" ? I suppose it comes down to what recently means? As for the problem. This really is not your problem. As I see it by the time a child reaches a certain age he is responsible for doing certain things. While it might be OK for a Cub Scouter to remind Cub Scouts to wash their hands and brush their teeth. I expect a normal healthy Lad of Boy Scout age to have learned this stuff at home. My role as a Leader is to deliver a program, not teach things that parents should do at home. If there was some sort of a problem, that was beyond the Lad's control. It of course wouldn't be his fault and educating the other members of the Troop in what a Scout is Kind is all about would be in order. Other than maybe going over the points of the Oath and Law that deal with being Clean and Physically fit and talking with the Lad's parents (Which you have done). There is nothing to do. I find the idea of allowing bullying in any shape, way or form to be just wrong and far more serious than body odor. Many years back in the UK,it wasn't uncommon for Scouts to be given "Tags". Some might say that these were harmless nick-names. I have had Scouts who have had nick-names, but these were never seen as being unkind. The "Tags" I'm talking about are the short kid being called "Tich" the heavy-set Lad being called "Tubs" and the kid with a odor problem being called "Stinky". Sadly a lot of this sort of thing was the work of the adults in Troops. I'm sure they seen it as being fun and some were even daffy enough to think that this in some way helped build these Scouts into men. Of course they were 101% wrong and name calling like this is a form of hazing. I'm sure this isn't the case in the Troop you serve, but you might want to keep an eye out to make sure that this Lad doesn't become a victim of this very un-scoutlike behaviour. Eamonn.

We are having a reorganization of the Council, I was dumb enough to agree to take on membership. A good many years back, I was all for holding spring round-ups for Tiger Cubs. That is recruiting these little Lad's as soon as they graduate from kindergarten. Back then I was more concerned with the numbers than the quality of program that the new recruits would receive. I tried to justify what I was doing by telling myself that it was up to the unit to provide the program and I was just helping out by recruiting these boys. I still whole heartedly believe that the program is in the hands of the unit. But I have noticed that a good many of the new recruits that are signed up in May, never make it into the program. A lot of the Packs tend to slow down or even stop from when school breaks in late May /early June until school restarts in late August early September. My big concern is that they and their parents feel let down and decide that Scouting just isn't for them, now or ever. Some ideas that I'm playing with that might help overcome this are. * Allowing Tiger Cubs and their adult partner to sign up for Day camps as individuals. (Not depending on the Pack, who might or might not attend. *Challenging Packs to sign-up six Tiger Cubs and having someone organize a inter-pack six-a-side Tiger Cub soccer tournament. My thinking here is that very often small packs don't recruit enough Tigers to form a real Den. (Six seems like a manageable number when you add the adult partner!) Most parents understand a little bit about soccer!! *Offering people who will be the adult partner an overview of what Tiger Cub Scouting is about, before they join. I'm thinking of a few public type meetings to be held in different locations in the Council. I welcome your comments and ideas. As I have said this is all still very much up in the air at this time. Thanks Eamonn.

That's the way it is! Ea.

emb021 Thank you. I'm sure if Dr. Foreshaw, my old maths master was around, he'd want to thank you as well. I have spent 30 years wondering why the heck we spent so much time on what was then in the UK called New Math, which included Venn. Now I know!! As I have posted in the past, I'm not a great fan of Venturing (As it is here in the BSA). So to my way of thinking if Sea Scouts is a small circle totally within a larger circle for Venturing? Venturing is the shell and we are the nuts. I don't mind being a nut!! But what do people do with the shells? Eamonn. (Posted in fun!!)

" adult leaders should generally be fit enough to deliver an active outdoor program"? OK I'll bite!! I'm 52 years old. Five feet eleven inches tall, weigh about one hundred and fifty pounds. All in all I'm not in bad shape. Back in the summer of 2006 the Ship with your's truly sea kayaked with all our gear almost seventy miles in five days. I know that without me holding them back they could have got miles in. I know when I got home, for about a week I had pains where I didn't know I had parts! I have had five back surgeries, I was popping ibuprofen (sp?) like it was going out of style. I think that if I hadn't been with the Scouts to offer words of encouragement a lot of what we did do, wouldn't have got done! I'm glad I did it. But will make sure that I don't do it again!! They want to go back this summer. I'm willing to help and support them any which way I can. I don't have to participate and pretend that I'm twenty-one years old to be an active leader!! In fact I believe that they will be better leaders if I don't participate with them. The program will be just as active! I don't buy into this idea that adults have to participate to offer or deliver an active outdoor program. Eamonn.

Just to add to the confusion. Sometime about a year ago, a Lad who was a Venturer was past by a District BOR for Quartermaster Rank. This for one reason or another didn't go over very well with some of the Sea Scouter's. They claimed that only a Sea Scout can earn Quartermaster Rank. But a Sea Scout can earn all the Venturing Awards. I'm not sure but I did hear that a group got together and combed through the Sea Scout Manual to see what was what? In the end it the Lad didn't get the Rank. (I wasn't part of any of this!!) I really like the Sea Scout program. While the Manual is in dire need of an update. The people that I have met who are involved in Sea Scouting are a great bunch. There have been Venturering units at some of the Sea Scout events I have attended and from what I've seen they have been made feel welcome. Eamonn.

There is a link to the training http://www.seascout.org/for_leaders/adult_recognition/adult-seabadge.html'>http://www.seascout.org/for_leaders/adult_recognition/adult-seabadge.html And a pp on the Sea Scout web site http://www.seascout.org/ As yet I have not taken the training. So I really can't comment on how good or bad it is!! I'd like to try and attend this year. Sad thing for me is that it seems all the courses are a fair distance away. A couple of years back there was one in Maryland (Curtis Yard) That would have been nice!! The Central Region had one in Ohio, but moved it to someplace in Michigan, I think that was the year before last? CNYScouter (As Oak Tree posted) informs me that there is a course in Connecticut this year. Maybe I'm getting lazy? But it seems like a long drive for a weekend course. I'm kinda inclined to wait until a course a little closer to home is offered. Who knows, maybe by then the new Sea Scout Manual will be out? Ea.

I do tend to get very... Shall we say defensive when people try and tell me how I should spend my hard earned cash. Of course sometimes people do tell me that I do need too open my bill-fold and part with a few dollars. Last time I had one of the cars inspected, the guy doing the inspection said I needed a new tire and without it the car wasn't going to pass the inspection. I could of course have not bought the tire and parked the car on my property. But I did spent the money and bought a new tire. Years back when things were a little tight I did try buying recaps. They didn't seem to last and I didn't see much of a saving. As we know a uniform is not required for BSA membership. It is a method of Scouting. We in this forum ave given the subject a lot of discussion. I see the method as a goal. The goal being that the Scout should want to wear the uniform with pride. I'll admit I was a little sad when someone sent me a photo of the Patrol that won the District First Aid Competition to see that all the Patrol were earing jeans. I was happy that they were good at first aid!! I have suffered from sticker shock. OJ, needed two pair of new BSA shorts for the last NOAC. I paid the $38.00. I moaned and groaned. I was happy that he was going to NOAC and that the OA was holding his interest. I knew the group he was going with. They are a fine group of fine young men. If my paying a little over the top for a few items of clothing is going to help ensure that he is going to hang out with kids like this. I'm willing to pay it and yes I'll still moan and groan. I suppose I could have said that I wasn't going to buy the shorts and he could have stayed home. He wouldn't feel very comfortable wearing "BSA knock-offs"!! On thing about a uniform is that it should be uniform. The Patrol who won the first aid competition are still good kids, not being in uniform doesn't change that. Who knows maybe some of them will want to attend the Jamboree and will want to wear the uniform with pride? Maybe they don't have the money? Maybe a lot of things? Getting them a uniform is one thing, getting them to want to wear it, is another! Eamonn.

Volker, You can see a copy of the illustration at: http://www.normanrockwellvt.com/BoyScouts.htm I'm happy to hear that Clemens and the Scouts in your part of the world are enjoying the program. One of the great joys about being an adult in Scouting is seeing Lad's grow and manage the challenges that Scouting offers. Eamonn.

Bob, You do know that our friend Slouchhat is the leader of a German Scout Troop!! Hey Volker, The photo reminds me of the illustration by Norman Rockwell, I think it is titled "Can't Wait". I think without realizing it I may be breaking a few rules!! For our Sea Scout working uniform, the chambray shirt, I have been buying seconds from the company that supplies the US Navy and have had them embroidered with the BSA Sea Scout logo. (As is suggested in the Sea Scout Handbook). The lady who does the embroidery does it from her home and we are the only Ship that she deals with. She charges us $3.00 a shirt. (I'm paying $7.00 for the shirts). Maybe I should see about paying the fee needed to use a BSA logo? Ea. Come to think of it she also does the white uniform jumpers!!

Yes. Ea.

Hi and Welcome. As I see it you have the following options. 1/ Give up! Don't join any Troop. 2/ Grin and put up with things as they are. 3/ Join and try and change things from the inside. This might take a very long time and the trail will at times be very rough going. 4/ Go shopping for a Troop a little further away from home? 5/ Start a new Troop. No easy task. 6/ Find a way to have a chat with the SM and maybe the CC about where they think the Troop is heading? Express your concerns and see what happens. I really think that no matter what this can't do any harm. Of course whatever they say, things are not going to change overnight. Eamonn.

I don't mean to hijack the thread. I wish you the best of luck with your boots. I have sent things back to BSA National Supply (Two pair of shorts that developed holes near the inside seam and a couple of pair of socks that got holes in them.) I mailed them with a note saying where and when I bought them. I didn't keep the paperwork!! But within a week or so I got replacements! I was a very happy little camper. Ea.

A few weeks back I thought I had come up with a brilliant idea that would help cut the cost of uniforms. Here in PA all the uniforms that the State police and those working in the DOC wear are made by inmates. I smiled when I looked up the name that has been given to the "Company". It's called Big House!! When I checked the cost of a shirt from Big House it was $24.95. So much for my brilliant idea. Eamonn .

One of my biggest fears used to be that traditional Boy Scout Troops would one day somehow be morphed into something very much like the Venturing program. I enjoy reading about the early days of Scouting. I have spent many happy hours in the White House at Gilwell Park reading about the early days. Fred Jenkins who joined the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) as a Assistant Scout Leader, was a King's Scout. He had been a Boy Scout in London before WWII. He told me stories of the good old days. Pushing a trek cart loaded with all the gear to camp on Saturday afternoon. (Kids left school at 14 and many worked in stores that closed half day on Saturday). Cleaning dirty dishes with wood ash from the fire, washing in washing soda. Fred was a wonderful outdoors-man. He could tie every knot in the Ashly book of knots. Sad thing was he wasn't very good with working with the Scouts. Fred would show a Scout how to do something once, if the Lad didn't get it Fred seemed to be convinced that the Lad was a complete and utter idiot and wasn't worth his time. I learned a lot from Fred, when we went away he took charge of cooking for the adults and helping me out. Turning the clock back trying to make the youth of today fit into some Rockwell illustration type Scout unit is not going to work. Sure some younger Lads will find it fun for a while, but the novelty will wear off fairly quickly. Visiting the past and seeing how things were done can be fun. The odd Camporee with a theme that looks back is not a bad thing. But I don't think I know a Lad over 13 who wants to live in the past. I'll admit that I'm a "Program Type". I know that retaining the youth we do recruit is dependent on them having fun, adventure, friends and having them take on new and exciting challenges. I'm 101% for this, but and it's a big but. This isn't why we have a Scout movement (Yes movement.) This wasn't why BP and the other's who help shape Scouting started Scouting. If we were to take the values out of Scouting, I'm not sure what we would have? I have no idea how many people would want to join or not join? I do know that it wouldn't be Scouting. I kinda think BP would turn in his grave. The marker on his grave the dot in the circle (The tracking sign for gone home) would take on a whole new meaning. Maybe replacing it with a dogs head in the circle might be an idea? (To signify gone to the dogs) Eamonn.

While my Honor is mine, I have ownership of it. I see it very much going hand in hand with my values. Which again are mine. Others might at times try and judge my honor. It is always a work in progress!! Just when I think I have it where it should be, something happens and I see that there is room for improvement. Of course the only person who can make any improvements is me. I learned a lot of my values from my parents and from people I have looked up to over the years. - Teachers, Religious leaders. Education, by which I mean every person I have ever met, book I have ever read, TV show I have ever seen and so on has also played a part in making me the person I am. Somewhere along the line I decided if I wanted to be like the good guys or the bad guys. Sometimes it has taken me a while to work out who my real hero's were. I look back now and can see what a truly great man my father was. While I don't pretend to have his qualities. For a very long time I never seen how kind and how loving he really was, I just took it all for granted. Now I'm happy to bear his name in fact I'm honored. I'm also overjoyed that OJ seems to be very much like him. Maybe for all my faults I did get somethings right. Eamonn.

Not sure what all this talk about the District has to do with the Scout Unit and the CO? But as we have seen Threads do take on a life of their own! I will admit that even though I know better, I do tend to view COR's as being "Unit Types". To be honest most of the COR's in our area fall into the guys who wear a uniform. People like me who have been involved with a unit and kinda move into the position, many do wear other hats. Then we have the guys who don't wear a uniform. Very often these are strangers who only come out when someone is upset about something. Of course some are just names on paper (This seems to happen a lot in Cub Scout units) As for the "Tabs" I wish we could do away with them!! There isn't any adult ranks in Scouting. A Cub Scouter doesn't out rank a Boy Scouter and a District Committee Member doesn't outrank a Boy Scouter. At the end of the day we are all trying to do what we can to make the vision and mission of the BSA have real meaning and come to life. All of the other organizations who make up the Chartering organizations share the same values as the BSA does. If they don't? They have no business being CO's!! The COR is very much the middle man /person who is the liaison between the two organizations. The BSA provides the program, the CO selects people to deliver it, Councils and Districts provide support and training to help make it work. Eamonn.

Have to admit that when I read that a Council is trying to do things like this it makes me mad. Council Professionals know or should know that trying to do this is just not right. If they want to have a learning for life soccer clinic, that's fine and dandy. If the guy in charge happens to mention to the boys and the parents that they might be interested in joining Cub Scouting and explains what the requirement for membership are? I think that's fine. But trying to "Pull a fast one" is never a good idea. In the end when they get caught it makes us all look bad. Some years back we had several Scoutreach Packs in low income areas that were chartered by HUD. But after the "Memo" we found new CO's. Much the same thing happened with units on military bases. We as an organization have stated what the requirements are! If we were willing to change them? Chances are that we might qualify for these grants. But as things are right now we just don't meet the requirements. Maybe this was just a mistake? Maybe it was the work of some new guy? I don't know! Maybe the word "defraud" is a little bit too strong? Of course if someone knows that the guy who made the application did so knowing that he was bending the rules? Maybe it's the right word. I would kind hope that before we use the word, we were 100% sure it was indeed a fraud. -Not just an oversight? Eamonn.