Eamonn

Few if any of the Troops in the area where I live have ever managed to have all of these three levels working at the same time. Depending on what the definition of "Experienced Scout Patrols" is? I'm not sure if we even manage to get there! I don't know what the average size of a Troop is? Looking at the size of Troops in my area they are small. I have not been able to get a break down by age. Looking from the outside, it seems to me that the Troops with older Scouts (16+) tend to be the smaller Troops, with no younger boys. The larger Troops seem to have a lot of very young Scouts (Under 13) and very few active older Scouts. Back in December, I was invited to a COH. OJ's SM was stepping down and the Troop was presenting him with a gift. I was taken back by how few Scouts were there. I didn't count, but I'm sure that there wasn't any more than 12. Earlier this week I received the membership report for the district. It had 22 Scouts listed. Later in the same week I was at a meeting and the new SM was there. He was going on about how a Scout from the Troop had not passed an ESBOR. Thankfully, I had not been involved in any part of that!! But he made mention that the Troop was going to fall apart. He said that he had 13 Scouts about to get Eagle and once they had it they would be gone!! (The membership report I read was the end of year report. This of course doesn't show how many Scouts had left the Troop since it rechartered last January.) By coincidence at this meeting I mentioned that we (The District) needed to do what we could to see about re-starting a Pack which is in the next town, but just down the road from this SM's Troop. I said how not having a Pack was hurting this other Troop. Our District Commissioner was involved with the Pack that normally feeds the "Eagle" Troop. He said that I didn't have to worry about the Troop with no Pack as all the Webelos Scouts from the Eagle Troop. (Same CO, same number.) Were going to the other Troop. From what he knew there were about 14 of these Webelos Scouts. I looked at the membership report, the Troop where all these little Lads are going is listed as having 8 Boy Scouts. With so many new Scouts I kinda think the Leaders will put their time and energy into looking after these new guys. With luck they will remember that there is still 8 "Old Timers". Still I kinda think the 8 old timers will get lost and fed up "Looking after the little kids." Mean while back in the Eagle Scout Troop, 13 new Eagle Scouts will receive their Eagle and take for the hills. The recharter numbers will show how many Scouts the Troop is left with. I'm thinking - Maybe about 8 or 9. These levels look good on paper. I'm just not so sure about how they work in the real world? As ever I'm sure they do and can work in some units. I'm very aware of what is not working. Yes I know 13 Eagle Scouts!! I'm not saying that these levels or ideas need to go out with the bath water. I'm just not so so about them. Smaller units will have a very hard time. Eamonn.

"So Eamonn, what kinds of water activities do you do? how many days a year are you in the water? People have said that only an idiot like me would start a Sea Scout Ship in a land locked state. So far I have found that our location hasn't proved to be as big a problem as the weather. Our on the water activities close down in October (This past year we manage a weekend cruise in November) We restart in late April. During this down time, we spend a fair amount of time working on the boats (All 3 of them!!). In the local swimming pool. This winter we have partnered up with California University of PA and we have Scouts working on their scuba certification, they are doing their dives at Mt. Storm Lake in the Allegheny Mountains of northeastern West Virginia, thanks to the 1,600-megawatt Mt. Storm Power Station, even in winter the water temp doesn't go below 60 F. The Quarterdeck does plan one on the water event a month. We seem to spend a fair amount of time in Deep Creek Maryland and at Lake Arther in Moraine State Park, these are normally sailing weekends. We use these because they are close to home only a 90 minute drive. For one day activities we have our rivers and our guys seem to really enjoy kayaking, so much so that they are planning a week long Sea Kayaking adventure. Someone has just donated a couple of small catamarans, which they have been working on. The plan is that these will be able to be used on some of the local small lakes. We also go white water rafting at least once a year. Sea Scouters are a nice group and we have been very fortunate to have been taken under the wing of two really great Ship's, who invite us to tag along with what they are doing. Both Ships have Skippers who have been Skipper for SEAL and have forgotten more about Sea Scouting and being on the water than I'll ever master. Our Scouts really enjoy these joint weekends. Most months we have two activities going on, of course due to the other activities the Scouts are involved in attendance can vary a lot. Eamonn.

Seems to me that you have things in order. Helping to fix the problems with the program first. While Bobwhite is right. People and organizations do change. 20 years back a local volunteer fire company had a lot of people who were or had been involved with Scouting. They (The fire company) were very enthusiastic about wanting to get involved and did become a CO for a pack. Over time the people who were in the fire company, changed. The new volunteers had different values. Giving up the fire hall for Cub Scouts, which resulted in not having a bingo night!! Became a big deal. The Pack ended up meeting in the local elementary school. Sure someone from the fire company was willing to sign any papers that needed to be signed. But even that was at times hard work as the elected officers in the fire company changed from year to year. Things came to a head when one year the elected Fire Chief contacted me (The then District Commish) and said if we (The Boy Scouts) didn't remove the Pine Wood Derby track that was stored in the fire hall he was going to send me a bill for storage!! I did send the DE in to talk with him (He was after all the IHO /Executive Officer ). The fire company was happy to allow the pack to move, keep the number and all the assets that the pack had. With the help of the District Membership Committee a new CO (A local church) was found and everyone ended up happy. When it comes to dealing with CO and the Executive Officer, this is best left to the DE. The agreement that a CO signs is with the BSA, not the volunteers. You might when you give your report to the District Commissioner want to bring this up, he will bring it up at a key 3 meeting and maybe the DE will contact the Membership Committee to see if they can be of help finding a CO. Of course if the DE was doing his job and meeting with the CO every year, he would know what is going on. Good Luck Eamonn.

Do I by chance detect some bias here? Of course I agree. Eamonn.

John-in-KC, Having just tried to follow the thread that this one was is related too. I'm still a little lost. I have read what you have posted and it kinda seems to me that maybe? You are trying to make the Scout fit the program and not the program fit the Scout. Just as in most cases an older Lad will be bigger, stronger and more coordinated than a younger Lad. There will be a better understanding of the aims with older Scouts. Every now and then when the mood hits me, I like to read what we promise boys who want to become Scouts. You know that page near the front of the Boy Scout Handbook. I'm at times a little taken back at how much we promise!! As I see it the road to First Class is our way of keeping this promise. We give the Scout the skills needed to take on bigger and more challenging adventures. Which of course is the "Stuff" we find in our vision and mission statements. (I'm still working on what Bobwhite has said -Knowing my luck by the time I have worked it out the thread will be long gone!!) Ea.

More and more I find myself wearing the uniform less and less. After a lot of heart searching, I have stepped down as Skipper, I have been asked if I'd take on being COR for the Ship? I'm thinking about it. I will be playing a more active role in the Area, Council and the District. I don't see myself rushing out to buy a new uniform anytime soon no matter how it changes. If it hits the streets before 2010 and I go to the Jamboree? I might think about it. Ea.

OK Bobwhite,I'll play!! To save me from opening and closing the page!! Your example was: "How often have you heard the complaint from scouts and scoutmasters alike that "the scouts won't do what the _______(fill in the leadership title of choice) tells them to" Would you agree that strongly suggests a leadership environment where there are people "in charge" of others? " Yes I agree. There are times when this style of leadership "Telling" is necessary and needed. I'm thinking of situations where safety might be involved or an issue. "Stop hitting him with that big stick!!" (Feel free to put in your own stupid situation!!) Most people especially boys of Scout and Sea Scout age, do not like being told what to do or being ordered to do something. We as youth leaders spend a fair amount of time talking about and trying to master leadership. Going back to your example: ""the scouts won't do what the _______(fill in the leadership title of choice) tells them to" Maybe exploring why? The Scouts are not doing what who-ever is telling them to do is worth the time. Did they understand what was asked? Did the leader take the time to make sure that they did understand? Were the instructions clear? Did the leader use good communication skills? Did he listen for any feed back? Do the Scouts know how to do what they have been asked? Do they have the tools (resources) to get the job done? If not, do they know where to go to find the resources needed? Has the person doing the asking earned the respect of the Scouts? Is he a good example? Does he follow instructions? Does he have a "Do your Best" attitude? (Walk the walk or just talk the talk?) Do the Scouts feel that they have some kind of ownership in what is going on? Have they been asked? Did they receive the facts? Were their opinions respected? Is there any kind of a history about what is being asked? What happened last time we tried this? What worked and what didn't? If it didn't? Is there another way that might be better? Was there a plan in place,was it reviewed with the Scouts? Was there a plan "B"? Were alternatives considered? Did everyone know what they were expected to do and when? The person doing the asking. Did he bark out orders? Or was he,Observing,Making instructions fit the situation,Helping where necessary,Examining the completed work,Reacting to the quality of the work? Are the Scouts aware of the consequences or rewards that might be gained from getting the job done and on time. "Hey guys if we get the trailer unloaded quickly and the tents up, we can still make it to the Trading post!" Very much in line with "Do what you gotta do, so you can do what you wanter do!" Talk about dirty pool!! Yes this is of course the old Leadership Skills. Ea

"A Scout is kind" A fellow forum member has requested that I close this thread. In the PM that he sent me he says, in part: ".... This is very serious stuff, my friend. It hurts a lot to re-visit it." I really can't see any reason why we would want to hurt anyone. In fact that's the last thing we want to do!! So at the risk of being "Heavy Handed" I'm going to close it. Thanks for your understanding. Eamonn.

Hey Bob, I think your playing dirty pool!! I know that you know all this "In Charge" bit is for the birds. How about in place of "In Charge" We go with the word "Serve"? Eamonn.

Some might say that this is like splitting hairs. Maybe they are right? I suppose if you have something that isn't broken it's kinda silly to fix it. BrentAllen, My dear friend, please don't think I'm in ant way trying to pick a fight or pick on you or he way things are done down in Dunwoody. I'm not. I'm not comfortable with the idea of adults who are adult leaders having Adult Patrols. Re: "If you want to be an ASM in our Troop, you must attend SM/ASM training and ITOLS (along with YP), as a beginning. Candidates must also pass most of the T-FC requirements, get CPR/AED trained along with Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat. This is not a short process, and it gives us plenty of time to observe the Scouter to see if he fits in with our program. If he does, upon completion of all the required training, he/she is welcomed into the adult patrol, with much fanfare. If the CO has mandated that all this Training is required? More power to the CO. I do however have a problem with: "This is not a short process, and it gives us plenty of time to observe the Scouter to see if he fits in with our program. If he does, upon completion of all the required training, he/she is welcomed into the adult patrol, with much fanfare. The selection of leaders is just not done this way!! What happens if someone feels that the new ASM doesn't fit in? Volunteer Troop Leaders are not in charge of "Hiring and Firing". Re: " We do this in WB and in SM training," No we don't!! While the participants role play being members of a Patrol and the Staff Member selected to be SPL also role plays being a youth member, the staff at Wood Badge do not try and form any sort of Adult Patrol. While of course the 21st Century course is not a Boy Scout course. The Course Director does take on being Scoutmaster. He /She is assisted by a ASM for program and a ASM for Support /Physical Arrangements along with the ASM for Troop Guides and the other staff members -Not a mention of a Staff Patrol. When adults take Scouts away to camp the adults are not following the same program or schedule as the Scouts. Any thing that could or might look like the adults are in some way in competition with the Youth members is to my mind wrong. Somehow a young Scout who has tried his best and is proud of the burnt offering that he has cooked, being shown up by the "Adult Patrol" who of course should know what they are doing and more than lightly will end up with better results, just doesn't seem right. Back when I was a SM, I selected the best person to do the job that was needed and never gave any thought to any sort of duty roster. Fred liked to do the cooking, he was good at it and this left the rest of the team free to do what was needed with the Scouts. Pete was the QM, He'd worked as a store-man in the RAF, he enjoyed being QM, so that was his job which he did for years. I enjoyed messing with rope and working with the PLC, helping them do what they had planned to do. To this end I assigned tasks for the ASM's. Very often when things were going right!! My role in a Troop meeting would be a few wise words at the end (Of course I was doing other things like meeting with Scouts.) We also had ASM's who only came to meetings or camp outs when their expertize was needed or when they were free. At summer camp I was always happy to stay in camp and as long as at least one other adult stayed in camp. If the other adults wanted to have a night out after the days program was done, I was fine with that. As for Adult Patrol Patches, as there is no adult patrols I don't think we need them and while when you first hear the name of the patrol it's kinda cute. It gets old really fast. Having said all this!! If it works for some units? I don't think it does any real harm!! Eamonn

"just minor annoyances to many." Wow!! If all the people I have ever annoyed could boot me out? I'd have been gone a long time ago!! E.

hops, I know. The rope dope is busy recruiting already. Have you joined the Yahoo group yet? I was really pleased to be able to meet you and Bob White on the Hill. I'm not sure if Gary will be back, he retired from teaching this past year, maybe him and the dope are busy working on their knitting?? Now that they are both unemployed? Ea.

Needless to say our friend hops was hanging out in Action Center D. Ea

Looking back to when I was a Scout. My parents were not involved with the Troop or any of the Scouting activities that I participated in. Of course this was in a different time in a different country. At that time in that place parents were not feel very welcome. But to be honest as a kid, I didn't want them there. My time with the Scouts was my time! The last thing I wanted was to be under the watchful eye of a parent. My Dad was a very busy man, he owned several businesses, never camped a day in his life. He was happy to support my Scouting by providing the funds I needed, when asked he would help the Troop with cash. I loved both my parents very dearly but when it came to Scouting I Had More Important Things to Do! And didn't want them there. Ea.

OJ, went as a youth in 2001. He had a great time. He went back in 2005 as a Youth Staff member. Again he had a great time. But he was kinda fortunate. He worked in Action Center D. The fellow in charge of Action Center D is from our Council and he recruited a lot of people from our Council to work in that area. So of course OJ was with a lot of people whom he'd known for a very long time. I was also there, so when he had a day off he choose to hang out with me and at night when he found himself with nothing to do he could visit the two Troops from our Council and shoot the breeze. Heck one day he even got me to buy him lunch at the Trading Post!! Eamonn.

I'm 100% for Trained Leaders. Before I'd rush to make training's mandatory, I'd like to see why the people who do attend are attending? What makes volunteers want to give up their time and hard earned cash to want to attend a training? On the the other hand I'd also like to try and find out why some people don't want to attend? How far do we go with this "Mandatory Training"? Do we insist that everyone is trained? Does everyone include members of the Board? If training's were seen as being informative,well run, fun and presented at times when everyone could attend; would we need to make them mandatory. As a Trainer do I want to present to a group of people who are there because they want to be there or because they feel that they have to be there? Will this group who feel forced to be there interrupt and take away from those who want to be there? I'm still unsure how a Council can turn around to a CO who has selected and is happy with the people they have selected and say"Sorry he or she has to go"? The long term plan of the BSA talks about bringing one million new adult volunteers on board by 2010! Are Council /District Training teams ready for one million people who are mandated to be trained? As things are now (At least in the Council I'm in) Training's have to be seen to be worthwhile, if they fail to be seen as worthwhile people just will stay home. If we make them mandatory will we risk losing quality because we know that "They have to attend"? While it might be OK for a CO to mandate training, I do have issues with this idea of an adult patrol?? Eamonn

"If anyone has any information about whether one-day versions of OLS have any official sanction, I would like to hear about it." This talk about any form of "official sanction" has me a little confused. For my sins I have served as a District and Council Training Chairman. While I did get involved with the presentation of the training's, I seen part of my job as ensuring that the syllabus was presented as written. To this end I along with the Training Committee selected people to present the training's. In part the committee and myself choose people who we knew would follow the syllabus. While I never seen myself as an Official Sanction-er of any kind. Presenters who failed to follow the syllabus were never asked to return and present again. Had I been the Council Training Chair in a Council where some misguided person be he a pro or a volunteer wanted to alter the training syllabus? I would have met with him and explained the error of his ways. Just as the SE really shouldn't change the laid down requirements for Eagle Scout rank, he or she really shouldn't go messing with the training's. I happen to think that one weekend isn't long enough for this outdoor training, but while it might be OK for me to offer my services for another more in depth training. For me to turn around and say that the training as in the syallabus is not good enough would be wrong on my part. However were I to do so? I don't think anyone other than the volunteers in the Council I serve would do anything about it! At the end of the day like a lot of things in Scouting we are charged with doing our best to do what is right, because it's the right thing to do. No"official sanction" is required. Eamonn.

All of us make the choice about what is and what isn't important to us. Looking back at the choices I made, some of them now seem wrong, some seemed right, then wrong and now seem right again. At the end of the day we promise to do our best. For a very long time I was guilty of talking the talk and not walking the walk. I'd tell new adults to Scouting that Family,Work and Church should come before Scouting. While all the while I was neglecting my family. I have a friend in another Council who got so involved in Scouting that his marriage fell apart and his wife left him. He tried to make a big joke of it. He served as a Council Vice President, soon after his wife left he had a big difference of opinion with the Council Executive Board and he was out. About the same time he was forced to take early retirement. Sad to say right now he is a very bitter, lonely fellow living alone in a small apartment. We really should try not to judge others until we have walked a mile in their moccasins. Eamonn.

I'd really like to sit down and have a chat with the people who come up with this stuff. I'm not for mandatory training. I'm all for training, but feel making it mandatory places an unnecessary burden on volunteers, many who struggle to do what they are doing. Calling this indoor training an outdoor training?? Just goes beyond being daffy!! Maybe calling it an introduction to outdoor leadership might be better? I'm a little puzzled why the Professional Scouters are doing any of the Training's? If I were the Council Training Chair. I'd be a little upset and I'd be talking to the Council Vice President for program. It could be that someone, somewhere thinks that a little bit of training is better than none? I can see that, but again calling it something that it isn't only cheapens what it should be. Over the past few weeks here in the forum there has been a lot of talk about First Class Scout. I'm very concerned that many of the Scouts who wear the patch and advance beyond First Class just don't have the skills. My son is an Eagle Scout, his outdoor skills are really bad. Sure, he has taken a lot of leadership skill courses both as a Boy Scout and as a OA member. A little while back he said he was thinking of joining a Troop as an ASM. I asked him what he would do for the Troop? (The Troop is a Troop that he used to visit when he was on camp staff and they fed him. -He likes to eat!!) He is a good kid, he would be a good example for the Scouts in a Troop, but not having the skills needed would mean that he was just another name on the charter. One problem that I have with our Patrol Based Training's (Even back in the days of the old WB course) is that in most Patrols there was always one "Super Scout". The guy or girl who had outdoor skills coming out of their ears. The less skilled Patrol members tended to either shy away or not be allowed to take an active role in what was going on. A lot of times returning home with maybe some idea of what needed to be done, but no idea of how to do it. Very often at the Outdoor Training, I see people who have served as Cub Scouter's and are crossing over to a Troop. These people really have no idea of the skills, the really want to learn them and learn how to teach them, but they get pushed back while the "Super Scout" does all the work and shows everyone how good he is. From the outside looking in, it would seem that the Patrol is doing well, but in fact the goal of training all the leaders hasn't been reached. Eamonn.

Very often I hear myself saying that I enjoy Scouting and that when it stops being fun that I'll move on and do something else. I really enjoy being with the youth members. All of them from our little Tigers to our older youth members in Troops, Crews and Ship's. I enjoy spending time with the adults, be it at some sort of Training or just helping out cooking for an event. I have been blessed to have been able to serve as a Jamboree SM twice. Being a Jambo SM is great fun. Being there and being able to share with a Troop of Lads who are having the best of times is indeed a wonderful experience. I know that deep down I'm still very much an overgrown kid. I am however both mindful and thankful to the people who staff the Jamboree. Back in 2001, I went with some of the Scouts to see how the disposal of waste water was being managed. Scouts were lined up with buckets of nasty looking and evil smelling yucky waste water. There was some kind of giant waste disposal system, with a really good natured fellow supervising the entire operation. Every so often a fork or some other object would get into the machine and he would have to clear it. I stopped to have a chat with this guy. He informed me that things were so much better than in the past, the machine had more horsepower!! If this guy had been paid, I don't think we could pay him enough! But to think that he had paid about $600.00 to do what he was doing?? It's easy when your the Jambo SM, not to notice that there are no trucks delivering food during the day and not to notice that a team of volunteers have worked through the night unloading the food and stuff that will take care of the Scouts during the day. It's a little too easy to not notice that everything that is there was put there by someone. I still see young men who went to the 2001 Jambo. They at times tell me about what a great time they had and say thanks. Still without the people who do the dirty work and pay for the privilege, things just wouldn't go as well. They give true meaning to the "Help other people at all times". We at times take them for granted. But they do deserve our thanks. Thanks! Eamonn.

Trying to prepare a Jamboree Troop for the Jamboree is not easy. Sometime about now, Scouts will start to sign up. Some may have already done so. Councils will have set a fee, be asking for a deposit and setting up a payment plan. The Jamboree Committee will be selecting leaders. The Council has dates when National needs Jamboree cash in, this is as a rule a fair amount of time in advance of when the participants cash comes in. The Council wants to ensure that all the spots are filled. In our Council, it's a matter of first come first served. Very much a "Give us the deposit and we will worry about the paper work later. The Jamboree Scoutmaster and his team have little or no say in who can attend and who can't. After the 2001 Jamboree the Scoutmaster of the other Troop (Our Council sends two Troops) made a list of things we thought might improve the Jamboree Experience for the Scouts who attend from our Council. Some of what we came up with was just ideas about equipment. We went from dining flys to the framed car-port type things, from wooden to metal tent stakes and asked that a lot of the un-needed stuff in the Patrol boxes not be sent. We also asked that the Scoutmaster be allowed to meet with and interview Scouts and their parents before they paid the deposit. We came up with this in part because I had two Scouts who had been a problem. One Lad had never been to a Scout Summer camp. His Scoutmaster hadn't told the truth on the form, he wasn't First Class. The Lad called his parents on the morning of the second day, saying he wanted to go home and they picked him up. The Mother of the other Scout, informed me as we were getting on the bus to depart from the Jamboree, that her son didn't want to go!! But she had told him that he was going. The Lad was a started out trying to be a real little toad. I met with him and he informed me that he didn't want to be in Scouts and that his Dad was making him stay until he made Eagle. He said that he had called home and left a message that he wanted to be taken home, but no one would pick up the phone! I was stuck with this kid. Him and I had a heart to heart. I said that he could choose to be miserable or he could do his best to try and have a good time. I also promised to have a chat with his Dad when we got home. He begrudgingly agreed. At times he was still a little toad, going as far as removing all the patches from his uniform!! But by about day four he teamed up with some Scouts who were having a good time and couldn't help but have a good time. I did talk with his Dad, he did quit Scouts and I met him on the street a year or so back and he apologized for acting like a little rat. Once the deposits are paid, I normally have a meeting with the Scouts and their parents. This tends to be an overview of the Jamboree, I go over what is expected from the Scouts and what they can expect from the Jamboree. Uniform seems to be the big concern from the parents. The Scouts are busy with the program provided by their home Troop. So trying to do anything as a Jamboree Troop is just not going to happen. After Summer Camp (2009?) The "Real Jamboree Troop" is formed. Starting in about September or October, we start having monthly Troop meetings. I held a weekend Campout in early spring. It's not as a rule very hot here in SW-PA in the early spring in fact we had a hard frost when we did it last time. In late May, we have the Shakedown Weekend, where we use all the equipment that they will be using at the Jamboree, we mark out the site to be the same size as the site they will have at the Jamboree, practice putting up the gateway. Load all the gear in a tractor trailer truck and other than the Troop meetings, that's about it for training. I of course tell the Scouts about the heat, I send newsletters home, parents are given the information. But to be honest we can't train the Scouts to be prepared for the heat. At the Jamboree I wear myself out telling them to drink lots of water and Gatorade, I have parents who are coming to visit bring in extra Gatorade and ice. As part of the fee we include a fanny pack which has two water bottles. At morning inspection before the Scouts take off, I insist that both bottles are full. When I meet any of our guys when I'm out and about I'll see about making sure they are drinking and do refill the water bottles. I'm not sure what else I can do in the way of Training. Of course if anyone has lots of extra cash they could offer to pay to send the Jamboree Troop to someplace where it's nice and warm in February! The Bahamas might be nice!! I think we are aware the Virginia is going to be hot, we kinda know that we will have a few storms and flooding is going to happen. But other than doing what we are doing the Scouts have to be there to understand what it's like. Eamonn.

Just about every Scout I know that has attended the Jambo has had a great time and really enjoyed it. A couple of things you might want to think about. Scouts have to have reached First Class Scout in order to go. The Jamboree in itself is not very expensive. However the cost of traveling and the "Add on's" that some Troops /Councils add on can make it very expensive. Fund raising can be a problem!! The Jamboree Troop is a provisional Troop of the Council and can with the permission of the SE raise money for the event (Following the BSA Guidelines.) I have served as SM twice, the first time the Scouts who of course come from lots of different Troops were really into fund raising. The second time they weren't. To be really honest I don't like fund raising and as well as being the Jambo SM, I was still doing my other Scouting duties. The Troop Committee for the Jambo is mostly made up of other active volunteers and they tend not to want to get involved with any fund raising. The Council has to be careful that donations (Even if it's a sale) don't take away from the cash the Council needs. Some parents are all for fund raising but the parents don't know each other and I found trying to get them to work together was next to impossible. Some of the Scouts had jobs and were paying their own way. (As a rule older Scouts don't seem to do well selling stuff. -They have so many school sales) Some Scouts had their way paid for in full by Grandparents or parents who (Like me!!) Would sooner write the check and be done with it. Some Scouts were allowed to use money that they had in their "Scout Account" in their home Troops. But no Troop held a fund raiser just to help send Scouts from that Troop to the Jambo. Most Councils have a very long list of people who are willing to act as leaders for the Jamboree. Each Troop has one SM, two ASM's and a Junior ASM. You might want to think about serving as a Jamboree Staff Member, as the competition to be a Council contingent leader could be great. I do have some concerns about very young Scouts attending the Jamboree. Our Council is small and the Council camp is close to just about every Scout (I think no matter where you live in the Council you can drive to the camp in less than 45 mins.) First year campers arrive at camp on Sunday afternoon. Parents drop them off and give them a big wet kiss!! Thursday night is Parents Night. (It used to be Wednesday but too many first year campers were going home with their parents. Delaying it a day, so the camper only had two days left seemed to help.) Parents arrive loaded down with enough food to feed the British Army for a week. Saturday as soon as breakfast is over Scouts are picked up and go home. Depending on where you live? The trip to the Jamboree can take a while. Once the Scouts arrive, it's very hot and they have a ton of work to do setting up the site. - Tents, kitchens, gateways. The heat is almost unbearable and there is no escaping it. The Scouts get very tired and with the heat and being so tired they can get very homesick. They are a long way from home. They are cooking their own food (No dining hall). Chances are that parents might not come for a visit. I don't want to make it sound bad. But maybe having these little guys wait might till the next one might be a better idea? Eamonn.

Before you move forward take time to look back. From what you have posted. I don't see any mention of the Quarterdeck? Only the Boatswain. Who made the plan? Who assigned the duties? How was the plan communicated? Did everyone know what was going on? And who was doing what? What is happening really is best left up to the Quarterdeck to manage. They should have set down a rule, bylaw (call it what you will) when the Ship's elections will be held. While maybe right now it might seem a strange thing to say, but it seems to me you have some Scouts who if you take the time to work on leadership development have the potential to be great leaders. What is going on now might act as a good wake up call to the Quarterdeck? The hardest thing you have to do right now is butt out and let the Scouts work out what is best for the Ship. After all it is their Ship. Your threat to leave? Doesn't seem like you!! Go back and cook some brownies or an apple pie!! (Yes I'm being serious - Bring everyone together and have them do it over!!) Eamonn.

Lisabob, Of course no two councils or districts are the same. How things are done or have been done in the past in the district your in will play a big part in how you break in a new DE. I feel really bad that I did a really bad job with the DE who joined us 3 years back and moved to another council back in July. Some of the things I did wrong were. I kept trying to make him into the DE that he replaced!! I forgot that he was so very young. (This was his first real job.) I allowed him not to communicate. That is when he didn't return phone calls or emails, I allowed myself to get upset and gave up! Where the right thing would have been to hound the living daylights out of him!! I was overly fast to criticize him, his ideas and maybe things I didn't understand, some of which were none of my business and had nothing to do with Scouting or his job performance. (A stupid toe-ring comes to mind!!) I forgot that he was a long way from home and didn't know anyone. I think I expected him to come on board and hit the ground running, when the truth is that he was still learning to walk. I was way too quick to dismiss his ideas and didn't allow him the time and space to develop things that he wanted to do. When we found out that the DE was retiring we did ask the volunteers if they wanted to donate a few dollars, in fact we set a ten dollar limit on how much they could. She really is into glass and crystal, so I bought a nice lump f glass from her favorite local glass works. We had a covered dish supper as part of her last R/T meeting. Her and I are still very close and we go out to dinner every now and then. Eamonn.

Hi Bear12, Welcome to the forum. Please pass on my congrats to your son for reaching the rank of Eagle Scout. As to your question. The answer is a little daffy. When your son receives his certificate it will be dated with the date of the BOR. When your son completed the Eagle Scout Board of Review, the chairman of the board signed and dated it. It was sent to your Council Service Center, where the local Scout Executive signed it, from there it went to the National Office where supposedly it was checked to ensure that everything was in order. Once they agree that everything is in order, Junior is an Eagle Scout for sure. When I serve as the chair of a ESBOR, I explain this to the Scout, but I then tell him that as far as I'm concerned he is an Eagle Scout and congratulate him. Please tell your son, not to be upset with the SM. I'm willing to bet my last dollar that he is as pleased as punch and it might be that he just got things a little mixed up. As you can see it is a little confusing. Eamonn