Eamonn

Have been sitting on the fence with this thread. Part of me wants to agree with most of what Gold Winger said at the start. Part of me agrees with Bob White. I'm concerned that we seem to want to appoint blame or point fingers!! Some times I do think things are just the way they are because that's the way they are. Bob White is right when he posts that the characteristics of young people haven't changed. I agree with him, but the opportunities that kids have to do things have changed. A quick tour of my son's bedroom and compare it to my bedroom when I was about his age. Without trying too hard I can count at least nine electrical /entertainment appliances in his room, where as I had a reading lamp!! I love the outdoors and really enjoy just being outside. Where as he never has seemed to have developed this love. This is just because he is the way he is. It is no fault of mine, of Scouting or the leaders he has had some have been trained and some could do with a refresher course. I'm not wise enough or clever enough to know why the numbers are dwindling. Some of the youth who join have a great time and seem to be around till they leave for college, while others who are the same age and join the same Troop /Pack /Crew/Ship at the same time wander off to participate in other activities or for some reason don't have the time or are unwilling o make the time to remain active in a lot of things including Scouts and Scouting. Why? I really don't know why!! I think it is just the way it is or they are. Part of the problem in my opinion is that the youth really don't know what they want. Again in my opinion I think the BSA tried to accommodate these undecided, uncertain youth with the creation of the Venturing program. However it seems to me that the successful Venturing Crews are the Crews that offer a traditional Scouting program that is much like Boy Scouting for bigger kids!! The special interest Venturing Crews don't seem to last long, in part because the youth change their interests as often as they change their underwear. It strikes me as being a little funny when people post that they were a Scout in the 1960's. I think we at times forget that some of the Scout's parents weren't born until the 1980's!! -A lot changed from 1960 till 1980!! These parents in many cases see and view things a lot differently than some of us older folks. I have to wonder; if we are unable to see where the parents of the youth are coming from? How the heck can we expect to understand their kids? Sure it's all too easy to sit back and talk about the "Good old days". But these parents and their kids were educated differently than maybe we were. They see organizations with rules and uniforms and that sort of thing in a different way. If we keep on keeping on about how it "Was" and don't try to see things as maybe they are? Or allow for change? I can't help thinking that we will continue to see the decline in our ranks. We will become an outdated has-been organization. Eamonn. (But maybe that's the way things are supposed to play out? - I really don't know!!)

As I have posted in the past. I really think that Commissioner Service is in such a sad state, that it is beyond repair. As I write in my mind I'm seeing the Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch. Like OGE I like and have great respect for just about all the Council Commissioners I have met and had dealings with. I have served on our Area Committee, the meetings are about as exciting as watching paint dry. Every now and then a Council who is really failing will receive a smack on the wrist along with a provisional charter. Area Vice-presidents do their best to get out and meet with Council Key 3's. Seems to me that these VP's are already doing what has been described for these new Commissioners. I really fail to see how these new positions will make a difference to the unit that doesn't have a Unit Commissioner. The service is needed at the unit level, it isn't happening and it seems to me that everyone knows this and nothing is being done. Eamonn.

Someone sent me an e-mail the other day that said due to the fact that 2010 would be the last Jambo at AP Hill, no new sub camps would be made available. Much as I hate to come off sounding like a wet blanket. I think someone has to a sometime say "Enough is enough!" Over 40,000 Scouts is a lot of Scouts. When I see big numbers like that I get scared. In 2001 and in 2005 just moving that number of Scouts to where they were supposed to be became a big headache. Dealing with the heat, the security for the President and the visitors seemed to take up almost an entire day. Maybe it's time for Regional Jamborees? Scouts from other Regions could if they wanted apply to attend a Jamboree in another Region. I know some people would still be left out in the cold, but with costs; this might give some of the parents and the leaders a break. Ea.

It's a shame that Mike Walton doesn't say what is the way it is and what is his view on what he thinks it is. Eamonn.

Hi, I can't vouch for how true this is!! But for the most part it seems to go with what captainron14 has posted. According to several of the Philmont histories, the jac-shirt began with Dr. E. K. Fretwell, the Chief Scout Executive in Philmont's early days. In 1944, he brought up the idea of an outdoorsman shirt. He later sent a red shirt to Minor Huffman, Philmont's first General Manager. Fretwell had Huffman trace the bull in the tile at one of the entrances to Philmont for a patch for the red shirt. The first few shirts were made by J.A. Brewster of Camden, Maine. In August, 1946, Fretwell gave each of the regional executives a red shirt with the bull on it. Ea.

"I was told that if you just want to visit for a day, the price is over $100. Evidently nothing about the Jamboree is cheap" While the people in charge of the last World Jamboree (For some reason it wasn't managed by the UK Scout International Division) did charge visitors to the World Jambo. In the past the BSA has never charged. I haven't look to see if they will in 2010. But I somehow can't see it. The BSA sees the Jamboree as a giant PR event. Sadly it missed the mark in 2005. The Scouts in the Troop I was with had a great time. We at times when we read the papers were unsure if what was being reported was in fact the Jamboree we were at. Eamonn

I have heard and I have no idea if it' true or not (Other than the person who told me seems to know about this stuff most of the time!) That 12 sites have been identified that met the needs and criteria. ( of those 9 are in the NER) I'm sure when "They" want us to know, we will. Ea

Tell the truth I don't know!! We have a the local Elks. They have a club in town and were a little afraid that if the Ship went under !!(I know!) They would get stuck with a parking lot full of boats. I'm unsure if they qualify as an educational charity? As we are now we can ask the local UW who has de-funded organizations who have endowment funds (our council) for funding. I'm trying to get money for a 15 seater van and some cash to keep it on the road. I had to send them all sorts of papers showing what out purpose was, vision, mission and all that good stuff along with the names of the "Club Officers". So far they (the UW) couldn't have been more helpful and the nice Lady I'm working with tells me we stand a good chance. We might have to offer to share the bus with a couple of other youth organizations. Eamonn.

While the Ship is chartered by a local service club. There is a 501(3)©?? That we put into place so we could accept large donations. Our Council didn't want to accept boats. My accountant did the paperwork for free, but with fees and one thing and another it ended up costing about $1,500. The accountant is a member of the Ship's Committee and takes care of the paper work that is needed. For most units the costs involved are really not worth it. You might want to tell people who donate to a unit that their donation is not tax deductible. Donations to the Council or in most cases chartering organizations are. Eamonn.

I've never taken the time to find out how dumb I really am? Many years back Dr.Foreshaw ,the poor guy who served as my math master at school seemed to think I was fairly dumb. I'm almost certain that attending Wood Badge or any other training has not made me any dumber! I have and still do think of myself as being a run of the mill scout. I'm not an expert in anything. I know a lot about food and cooking, but I don't count that as it's what I do to bring home the bacon. My outdoor skills are in fine shape. I enjoy spending time with the youth we serve, they seem to like and respect me. I try to offer them a program that is fun, is adventurous and offers them new challenges. If they decide that they want to do something that I'm not able to provide, I'm happy to look for a place or a person who can deliver the goods. I'm not a fan of same aged patrols. I'll admit that I never liked the idea so was happy to ignore it. I have never seen the need for a New Scout Patrol, in fact in my view I think having one takes away some of the responsibility I place on the Patrol and the PL. But if it works in other places and people are happy with it? More power to them. While I know a lot of the stuff that can be found in the books and agree with most of it. When it comes down to doing things, I don't really give much thought to anything other than the activity (Whatever it might be.) I'm not really looking at a list of the methods of Scouting, the aims or even the oath and law. I for some reason seem to think that by doing what we do, the way we do it; everything is going to fall into place. The Scouts know that they live and work in patrols, they expect to and want to do stuff outdoors,they know that there is an expectation that at times they will need to wear a uniform. They know that along the way there will be adults to work with them and when needed help and advise them. They know if they mess up that they are going to get the Eamonn Scout Law and Oath sermon!! I think they know that I really do care for each and every one of them. No training can teach people to care. I think we take it for granted that the people who volunteer do care. I'm not sure why? But it does seem to me that a lot of the adults who are now serving as adult leaders don't seem to have the outdoor skills that I have. This does worry me. I have never taken the goal of making any rank within a set time to heart. Maybe because it was never a problem. Scouts who are active in the Troop just seem to reach their goals without the need of some sort of plan. I do take ensuring that they do have the skills needed to heart. These skills are the key that opens the door to more adventurous and more challenging activities. These bigger and more challenging activities will hopefully make them want to remain in the program and the longer they are around the more impact Scouts and Scouting will have on them. They will have a better understanding of all the good stuff found in the oath, the law, what true leadership is and what is is to be a caring person. We can look at any Wood Badge course, new, old, English, American, in fact any course from any place in the world and I very much think that a week long training is not going to provide everything that is needed to be a good Scout leader. While I don't have anything that will back what follows up!! Back when I first joined Scouts (Maybe this was just an English thing?) Parents didn't get involved. Troops were led by a small group (less than six) of people who for some reason knew what they were doing. I'm not sure how they come to know this? Some were ex-military, some had been through Wolf Cubs, Boy Scouts, Senior Scouts and Rover Scouts -But they really knew their stuff. I remember as a Scout sitting around a campfire listening to a group of them discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the Japanese lashing for hours!! Maybe it was because they seemed like some kind of elite group that they in some way scared others away? Or maybe they just weren't very welcoming? Even the committees seemed to be comprised of "Elderly Scouting types" My first trip to Wood Badge was or seemed to me to be about the inter-patrol competition. More about which Patrol had the best and most skilled members. We were treated like Boy Scouts for a week and we acted like Boy Scouts for a week. Fast- forward to the 21st Century. I see lots more adults involved in the Troops and Packs. I spent over ten years as a District Commissioner and District Chairman. In that ten years never once did I receive a call from a youth member telling me that his program wasn't very good. But at times it seemed that the phone was ringing non-stop with calls from adults who just never learned how to get along. Part of this was due to the fact that they didn't understand the program -What we are trying to do! Part of this was due to poor leadership -Adults forming teams and working together toward a common goal. Take a look at the number of adults it takes to run a normal everyday Cub Scout Pack. It isn't hard to see that without some kind of management training this is going to face all sorts of problems. Back when I first became a leader, we would take the Troop away with four or five adult leaders who were all very committed to what we were doing, who knew or understood scouting. We each knew each other, we were all close pals. A couple of years back I visited OJ's Troop at summer camp. They had 28 Scouts in camp with 16 adults. While the SM and a couple of the ASM's are trained and do know what they are doing, many were just parents who were there to keep an eye on their kid, but had their own idea what Scouts and Scouting should be. The new course does help provide tools that I have found very useful dealing with youth members, but I have found the course has helped me most when it comes to dealing with adults. It does seem that the task of providing adults with outdoor skills and a better understanding of the methods of each program has fallen on the local councils. How each local council goes about this is yet to be seen. As I have said this is just the way I see things and is nothing more than my opinion. Eamonn.

OneHour, The "Meaning of Scouting" can be found in the Vision and Mission statements of the BSA. It is up to each of us volunteers to decide how much time we want to devote to Scouting or if we want to be involved. We can in some ways decide where we volunteer. Scouting and the BSA does at times have problems, some of these problems at times do rub off on us and do effect us. When this happens to me, I tend to look at my options. The list of options does of course change, depending on the situation. As a rule it starts off looking something like: Do Nothing Let the situation ride and hope that it will somehow someway sort itself out. Fight For What I Think Is Right! I of course have to deep down believe that I'm in the right (Spending time finding out if I am or not, does help prevent me looking like a real twit!) Even through I say it myself I'm a good "Fighter"! Do I always win? Of course not! Most times some sort of a compromise is met which if nothing else helps everyone save face. Do Something Else. Back in 2004, I wasn't a happy camper. We had a new DE. I was District Chair and I had a very low opinion of him (My fault.) I wasn't overjoyed at who was selected to be Council President. The Council finances were in a real mess. The SE was a nice guy, but wasn't a good SE. When my 3 year term was up, I was happy to move on and do something else. I was saddened to see what was going on. In fact at times I was upset when I seen a lot of the good stuff I thought I'd done and worked hard on fall apart. I took sanctuary in the Ship. Working with Scouts again, learning a new program, doing the things I was doing kept me busy, so busy that I didn't even bother to find out what was going on in the District and the Council. The truth is that my knowing wasn't going to change anything and again deep down I knew that if I wasn't going to be part of the solution, which I didn't see!! I'd only become part of the problem and end up getting upset. Things have changed, we have all new people. People I like and enjoy working with and for. They have asked me to get involved. I have because of things at home made it clear how involved I'm going to be and once again I'm a happy little Eamonn. Quit! While each and everyone of us can quit and quitting is always an option. So far I have yet to use it. I'm very selfish!! I enjoy my Scouting!! I enjoy the Scouts and like most of the people in Scouting, all my best friends are in Scouting. I also don't like the idea of backing myself into a corner. Please don't think for a minute that I'm in any way trying to pick on you. But when I hear someone say "I had a principle that I must stand on." It to me seems to be saying "I'm not sure if I'm really right or not! But I don't want to end up with egg on my face!" You need to ask yourself "What is the principle? -Think about it for a while. Seems to me from what you have posted that you do miss what you were doing, you do enjoy spending time with the Scouts that you used to serve. In fact it seems to me from what you have posted that you want to return. So it all comes down to your ego and your principle! Returning might be a little uncomfortable for the first few minutes, days, but I'll bet you can ride out that storm. You know that Scouting isn't about Scouts who might or might not be 100% worthy of the Eagle Scout Rank -Heck only about 5% of the Scouts we serve ever get that far!! Will you have to eat humble pie for a while? Yes!! But the bottom line is that true Scouting can be found in the Oath and Law, you promised to "Help other people". That oath didn't come with a time limit. -Your hooked!! So stop moping around the house, give the SM a call tell him that you are returning, try and iron out any of the big differences you might have with him and get back to work! Eamonn.

I have read that the 2010 will be the last NSJ at Fort AP Hill the reason I was given was that the DoD have found a new use for how they are going to use the Fort. There was a sheet with a list of what the BSA would like to see available in a new site. The list was very extensive. I have also heard that the keeping the new new site near to Washington DC is also on the wish list, so Scouts do get to visit the Nations capital. I haven't heard how the search is going? Or if they have found a new location. As yet for the 2010 Jambo the Council I serve seems to have done very little. Talking with one of our local professionals, it looks like the price tag is going to be around $1,800. We are only about a four hour drive from the Jamboree site, but it seems that the companies we have used in the past to transport the Scouts to and from the site have really had to increase the cost they charge due to the fuel costs. Trying to get them to quote a price for 2010 has nor been easy. For a family I'm thinking that with all the extras it is going to end up costing them about $2,000 per person. Sending one family member might not be to bad, but in 2005 my ASM paid for himself and his two boys to attend. I'm thinking that for $6,000 the family could go on a really nice vacation and he might even take his wife!! Eamonn.

"This is really important when it comes to Eagle Badges." ?? I'll bet if you look on e-bay you can buy whatever patch you want, including Eagle Badges!! If we are trying to safeguard these badges?? Are we in fact feeding the"Black Market"? Registered Scouters in our Council can buy all the patches they need. Some Scouts have several uniforms -OJ had six when he was a Boy Scout -He still has six but he is no longer a Boy Scout.) Ea.

At the risk of being called a "safety Nazi"? I would strongly recommend using pasteurized eggs or finding some way of ensuring that the eggs are throughly cooked. (You might want to avoid using shell eggs and go for the eggs in cartons!!) Eggs should be cooked to 145 degrees F if they are going to be ate immediately 155 degrees if they are going to be held for any length of time. Microbial pathogens of the genus Salmonella are among the leading causes of foodborne illness in the United States. Between 696,000 and 3,840,000 cases of foodborne salmonellosis occur each year, causing mild to acute gastrointestinal symptoms, such as abdominal pain, frequent diarrhea, vomiting, fever, and chills. Egg-laying hens intensively confined in battery cages are unable even to spread their wings, these hens are stacked in cages one on top of the other of course when they use the bathroom?? It ends up on the hen below. For a while these hens were being fed a feed which included ground chicken quills!! Induced molting of commercial layers is a common practice used in the poultry industry to extend a layer flock's productive life. Molting programs impose stress and this in turn increases a flock's susceptibility to salmonella infection, which can result in people becoming sick from foodborne illness. Eamonn (We have done this with carton eggs it works well but I like to cook the onions a little before I add them.)

Hi, At the risk of coming off sounding like a "Book Thumper" The delivery of the program lies with the Unit. Unit programs are supported by the District through its Program functions and Unit Service. Having spent over fifteen years working at the District level. I think (Just my opinion!!) That depending on who you are and the position you serve in has a lot to do with how you see/view the District and its' success or failure. For example a Den Leader might only see what happens at the Round Table, District Training's and Camps. If the these are well organized and ran. He or She will think the District is doing great!! On the other hand the District Finance Chairman who is having a hard time meeting the District Finance goals and is being given a hard time by people in the community and the volunteers in the District. Might have a very different point of view? I'm very lucky!! I live in the center of a very small District. People in our area tend not to move very much and it seems that everyone knows everyone. In fact as you drive around the District you need to drive with one hand as you need the other hand to wave at people. Having owned and operated two restaurants and bars in the area and having been involved with organizations like the Chamber of Commerce, I'm fairly well known. The family of Her Who Must Be Obeyed were involved in Scouting long before I came across the pond from England and owned and operated the local funeral home. So they knew everyone. This has been a big help when it comes to trying to get people to do things. My Mother-in-law was the Den Mother to the local Bank President, my Father-in-law was SM to several of the local School principles (3 are Eagle Scouts) Such is the joy of serving in a small semi rural District. As District Chairman for some reason people found it hard to say no to me!! In part was because I always had back up plans for them. If I asked them to do one thing and they refused me, I hit them with another! Taking a NO! Just wasn't an option. Working with local Service Clubs did a lot to help our District. I looked for volunteer Scouters who were already involved in these clubs and used the Adult Recognitions to get my foot in the door (Make the awards at their meetings and functions, not Scout functions). Having presentations from events like the Jamboree or Eagle Scout projects that an enthusiastic volunteer can present at meetings of local clubs (Their Chairmen are always looking for an easy program that they don't need to put too much time and effort in!) Communication is vital, but the one thing people seem to hate most is wasting time. Meetings for the sake of meetings will kill or scare off any willing volunteer. The best thing to do is decide what needs done? Look at what is involved? Select and recruit the right person to do it. Let him or her know what it is, what is involved, when it will start and when it will be done. Once you have these people they need to be held accountable for doing what they have said they are going to do. This does take time. Some people will need some sort of training (We lose 47% of the people who volunteer. A lot of times because they don't know what they should be doing!!) The District Chair or The Committee Chair does need to follow up and see how things are going? Ask if they need anything? Offer to help if need be. (Offering to help is not the same as doing it!!) I know this is going to sound terrible!! But the District Committee needs to know that they serve for a one year term!! If someone isn't doing what they should be doing or is using the meeting to voice their complaints or is just a miserable old goat!! Get them off the committee. They are not doing anyone any good!! Never allow any meeting to run over 90 minutes. Always start on time and have everything ready. The District Chairman and the DE should plan the agenda. People like to be rewarded. Use the recognition plan (The District Key) Celebrate when goals have been met - A cake and case of pop costs very little!! Thank people a lot -A pat on the back costs nothing!! The District Chairman needs to look at each and every committee and remind the other committee chairs that one person is not a committee!! Trust the people you ask. They might not do it the way that maybe you might do it!! But there will be time to look at what happened and reflection after and the goal is to do it better next time!! Invite Council Chairs to come and talk with each committee. He or She should know what the goals of the Council are!! Most times these people do know what they are doing!! Encourage all the District Committee members to attend the District Training. Get to know the people who serve on the same committee in the other Districts -Heck you all are doing the same job for the same Council. Pick their brains -Who knows some good might come out of it. We all want "Our District" to be the best!! But it really isn't a competition! Treat Adults like adults!! Expect them to act like adults!! Encourage each and every volunteer to ask the District Committee person who serves in a particular area, when they have a problem. Not pick up the phone and call the DE!! This helps the District Volunteer feel needed!! (And loved!) Have fun!! Eamonn.

Lisabob Seems I read what I wanted to read!! Maybe the fact that I had been invited to sit in on an Eagle Scout BOR yesterday, in some way played into this? Any which way!! Seems I got the wrong end of the stick. Please accept my apology. By the way the BOR I attended went great two 17 year old Lads who did really well!! As for asking a Scout to "Restart". I have done this. It was an Eagle Scout BOR. I knew the Lad well and have known his family for a very long time. I'd seen him from the time he was a little fellow in Cub Scouts. I had been his Jamboree SM. He really was/is a nice lad. At the time of the review, our District Advancement Chair wasn't around due to work. I was District Chair and was using the BOR to help involve more people from the community, by inviting them to sit in on BOR's. (Our District has District BOR Eagle Scout rank) The Lad was close to being 18 and was into "Goth"! His hair was dyed jet black, he wore his Scout uniform, but had what looked like spiked armlets on his wrists and a dog chain around his neck!! I have invited the president of the local Business and Professional Womens League to sit on this BOR. A nice elderly Lady who was dressed like the female who is running for President of the USA!! Got to love them two piece suits!! The lad came in and didn't make eye contact with anyone. His head was hung low and his shoes must have been the most interesting things he'd ever seen! He sat there looking at them. Very much like you describe he just didn't seem interested in what was going on and had about as much enthusiasm as a dead fish. I asked the board if they would excuse us for a minute. We, that is the Lad, the member of his Troop Committee and myself left the room. His Dad was waiting in the other room. We got together and I explained that he just wasn't doing such a good job. I asked him if he was trying to fail? Of course he said that he wasn't. We talked for a couple of minutes about the effort that he had put in to get this far. I reminded him about the times when he wouldn't shut up!! How he had been the ring leader in getting most of the Jamboree Troop to attend the Buddhist Services (The family are Methodists) I went on to tell him what he was doing wasn't cool and how I really wanted him to go back in there and give it his best shot. We all went back and started over. He was a different kid. He did pass and is an Eagle Scout who now serves in the US Air-force. His hair is no longer jet black and last time I seen him there was no sign of the dog collar. I hate to see any Lad fail. That doesn't mean that I'm not for meeting the requirements. Some of the Boy Scouts in the Ship seem to have a hard time accepting that a requirement is a requirement. Of course I don't bash them over the head or try to drill things into them. Keeping things as friendly and up-beat as is possible seems to work for me! Sure we have Scouts that do try to pull the wool over my eyes and pull a fast one!! I try to make light of it and still let them know that I didn't come up the Thames in a bubble! Again I'm sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick. Eamonn.

Joni4TA I'm not sure how to put this in a nice way. My great hope is that YOU didn't use the inappropriate language and phrases that you are using in this forum. I would remind you that we do have parents and youth who visit this site. I spend my working day with convicted criminals and they don't use the terminology that you seem to think is acceptable. With great respect I do ask you to refrain from using it in the future. Eamonn.

Of course I wasn't at this BOR. I don't have any real interest in what went on or what didn't. Communication is a leadership skill. I would hope that when the Eagle Scout Leadership project was reviewed communication and all the other leadership skills were looked at and taken into account. If the Board felt that the project wasn't up to snuff due to poor communication. That might be a reason to the Scout not meeting the Eagle Scout requirements. I have not seen it posted that this lad is not living or doing his best to live by the Scout Oath and Law. If the Board found out that he wasn't. This would a reason to deny the Scout Eagle Scout rank. If however all the requirements were met? It would seem from what has been posted that he is being denied Eagle Scout rank because he failed to communicate well and impress the members of the board. I'm sorry but I fail to see this as being a reason to deny a Scout who has met the requirements Eagle Scout rank. I think if this were to happen on a board that I was a member of, I would after the board had met to discuss the merits of his application and the Scout returned to find out what the board had decided. I'd make him aware of how very difficult he had made things for the board and let him know that in the days to come he will have to go to job interviews and maybe performance evaluations? In fact as I think about it I more than lightly would let him know during the first interview that he wasn't doing a very good job and wasn't doing much to help himself. Maybe going as far as to ask him to leave the room for a moment and restarting everything again! As I say I wasn't at this BOR. Of course there could or might be a lot more going on than has been posted. Eamonn

"So if the boys want to play basketball for the pre-opening gathering activity and carry it through for the entire meeting, what's wrong with that?? It's not the Scoutmaster's program. Remember, it's not our program, "it's for the boys". I was half expecting to see a little smiley face icon or something like "LOL" at the end of this. Sadly it wasn't there. I'm not sure what program this might be? But to my way of thinking it sure as heck is not my idea of what a Scouting program should be. Somehow I can't ever see any PLC that I have ever been involved with planning or wanting to plan a Scout meeting where the entire meeting was playing Basketball. While maybe playing ball games does meet one aim of Scouting? If the youth and the adults are only interested in this area of activity they are in the wrong program. In our area the YMCA does offer nights when Basket ball is the activity that is offered. I think if I were the SM of a Troop that only wanted to play basketball I'd be glad to provide details of the basketball programs offered by the YMCA, along with detailed directions on how to get there. If the CO was unhappy with the idea that so many of the youth were jumping ship to join the YMCA? I suppose it would be time for the people in charge of the youth programs for that organization to take a long hard look at what activities they wanted to provide for the youth they were serving. Maybe Scouts and Scouting isn't the right activity? Maybe they should think about replacing Scouting with some other sports program. One that maybe doesn't stress the same things that Scouting does and doesn't maybe have the same values that Scouting has? I'm 100% for us having a youth led program, but the program is a Scouting program and we remain inside the program. There is a big difference between providing activities for young people to participate in and providing a Scouting program. I see me saying to the PLC that having meetings devoted to basketball is fine and dandy would amount to much the same thing as me saying "Sure if you don't like the Scout uniforms, go ahead and don't bother with them" No -Not in my life time!! Eamonn. (The fact that I know nothing about basketball has nothing to do with it!!)

It's been a while since I was involved in the Cub Scouting program. I was never a Tiger, Wolf or Bear Den Leader, but did serve as a Webelos Scout Den Leader and Cubmaster. My understanding of Cub Scout Advancement is that Cub Scouts who are in the Tiger, Wolf and Bear Dens work with their parents on advancement. Family involvement is a big part of Cub Scouting and is a method of Cub Scouting. Parents are not only allowed but are encouraged to work with their son on meeting the requirements and sign off in the Cub Scouts book when the requirement has been met. This changes when the Lad becomes a Webelos Scout, then it is up to the Webelos Scout Den Leader to sign off that the requirement has been met. This is seen as helping the Webelos Scout being prepared for Boy Scouting where the parent doesn't play a role in saying that the requirements have been met (Unless the parent is involved as some sort of leader or MB Counselor.) The bottom line is that the Cubmaster has nothing to do with the advancement of any of the youth in a Pack. Someone might want to get their hands on a copy of the Cub Scout Leader Book and show him what his role in the Pack is!! I kinda think in his heart of hearts that he knows what he is thinking of doing is not the way that things should be done. I would hope that someone who is close to him would find the right time, right place and a nice kind way of pointing this out to him. Even when we deal with this young Scouts the life lesson we pass on to them by handing out awards that have not been earned is not a good lesson. Some time back a Boy Scout who attended school with my son received his Eagle Scout rank. My son knows the Lad very well. They were not in the same Troop. To be honest the Lad who received his Eagle was never that interested in being a Scout, but his Dad was SM and forced him to remain in the program. He really is not everything or anything that you might expect an Eagle Scout to be!! Having been in trouble at school a lot and in trouble with the law a few times. When he got his Eagle rank, my son was a Life Scout. I was doing my best to encourage him to complete his Eagle Scout requirements. Sadly he seen what had gone on with this other Lad and said "If they give it to people like him, it's not worth having." Is is fair to the other Cub Scouts who have done their best to work on and meet the requirements if at the end of the year we hand this awards out to the Scouts who have not earned them? I think not and I also think it harms everyone in the program. Eamonn.

Back in 2005 when I first got involved with Sea Scouting, I went and bought myself a Sea Scout Manual. I was impressed by the size of the book! It seemed to cover just about anything and everything a Sea Scout might need. I sat down and read it from cover to cover twice!! For work I have to read a lot of reports and updates, but even being used to reading material that might be seen as being dry. The Sea Scout Manual was tough going. When the Ship did get started we along with the membership fee and the cost of a working uniform collected the money needed to buy a copy of the Manual for each and every Sea Scout. As we started to use the Manual we started to notice that some of the material was out of date. I mentioned this to a friend of mine who serves on the National Sea Scout Committee and was informed that they were working on a new manual. He said that there were problems as the people working on it were all volunteers who were located in all parts of the Country and at that time there was no budget for the new manual. I'm not sure if that really was the case? Or if there is now a budget for the new manual? Last January the Ship was invited to attend a Quarterdeck Training in New Jersey. I'm unsure if it was supposed to be a Regional Training or a Flotilla training. We drove from SW-PA to NJ in the snow, expecting something a lot better than I could do!! It was fun and the Scouts who attended had a good time, but the material was terrible. The people presenting the training were all very nice and some were very knowledgeable about seamanship, boat-handling and that sort of thing. But the material was just not very good. The Sea Scout Manual and other Sea Scout publications informed me that the outline for Quarterdeck Training can be found in the Skippers Manual. The Skippers Manual has been out of print for a very long time. I did find one on E-bay that was printed in the 1940's!! Being the only Ship in our Council the Council run Scout Shop didn't as a rule keep copies of the Sea Scout Manual in stock. So the ensure that we would have copies on hand I would buy a dozen or so copies at a time. I was surprised to find that the last time I ordered them they they had gone up in price by about $4.00 a copy. Same book, same printing date, same everything?? Sea Scouters are some of the nicest Scouter's I have ever met. They couldn't have been more kind and understanding toward me and the Ship. They really did reach out and take us under their wing. But a good many seem to get very defensive when it comes to changing anything. A lot of the program does deal with tradition and a good number of the Sea Scouts I know really like this and enjoy learning about it. Some even accept the fact that the outdated material is just part of the way things are!! It's almost as if this is part of the program. A new Sea Scout Manual is never going to be a "Best Seller". I'm sure that sales will never reach the numbers that the Boy Scout Hand Book or the Cub Scout books reach. Maybe we should look at what is happening in the LFL program where all the material is now available on line? But maybe before that could happen Sea Scouting might need to become part of the National Web site? (http://www.seascout.org/ is unofficial and may not reflect the official position of the National Sea Scouting Committee or the Boy Scouts of America.) I have not taken Sea Badge. I have sat through the other adult leader training's. They have been enjoyable, good fun and have provided useful information. Sadly a lot of the material presented seemed to be the personal opinion of the person presenting it. Of course we all know that some presenters do at times get a little carried away. But some of the courses I sat through were supposed to be the same courses that every volunteer leader has to go through and if I hadn't already taken the courses; I'd never have known. I'm not sure why this is happening? It might be that Sea Scouting is so very small that the powers that be are happy to ignore what is going on? Or it might be that the Sea Scouting powers that be don't want to allow or don't seem to want National interfering? The program does offer the youth that join a lot. From my adult point of view I find it a lot easier to understand and deliver than Venturing. Of course a lot of that is because I like the structured program, which at this time I fail to see in Venturing. (This is a problem with me not the program!!) Over 50% of the youth who join the Ship do come from Boy Scouting programs, many have taken the youth leadership courses offered in Boy Scouting, sadly when I try to use the youth leadership materials offered by Sea Scouting resources it's like entering a time-warp!! The Scouts who have been though Boy Scouting courses see this and end up being more than a little confused. Of course there is still a lot of good stuff in the old material and just because something is old doesn't mean that it's all bad. Sea Scouting is a great program, it has the potential to reach a lot of young people. It does seem to be growing. Surely it's time we spent some money updating the materials available and tried to make it even more appealing to young people and new adult leaders? Eamonn. (I did try and spin off, but got an error message! So I put this here!!)

Glad to hear that you had a good time. Just be careful. Right now you might be on a Wood Badge high? We as Scouters can and do make a difference in the life's of young people. But we don't have super powers and are not super heroes. Most of the kids who join Scouting programs don't need saving, they tend to come from good families and homes. That isn't to say that good kids from good families don't mess up and that Scouting doesn't help prevent them from messing up. Just don't burn up!! Eamonn.

Bob White As I posted I have not as yet attended Sea Badge. I'm not in the Central Region and don't know many of the adults who serve in that Region. I'm sorry that you feel that you didn't receive everything that you might have expected from the Sea Badge course. There have been people who have posted on the Sea Scout net. page, that the course was "Top notch" It would seem to me that some people did enjoy the course and did get something from it. They point out that Sea Scouting in the Central region has seen 7% growth. A member of the Ship that you serve stated that this Sea Badge course was a a good way to start the boating season. Ea. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Now I have got over the "Pink" thing!! The question asked does seem to place a lot of expectations from people who have taken Wood Badge Training. In some ways to my mind it's a little like asking, "Why don't members of a certain religion behave better?" I have attended a lot of Training sessions -Some were really great, some were down right bad. I have seen all sorts of people attend training's. Some attend because they think that they will get something out of the training which will help them better serve the youth in whatever role they are tasked with. Some just tag along because they have a pal who is going. Some feel that they are under pressure of some kind to attend. Some are "Training Junkies" who attend anything and everything. Having at one time or another presented most of the BSA Training's I felt my main concern was to present a quality training. My job was never to judge why anyone was taking the training. Do some people get more or take home more than others from a training? You bet they do. Trying to group everyone who has ever taken Wood Badge together as one big group is just a little daffy. No change that it's more than a little daffy it's big time daffy. If a fool attends Wood Badge at the end of the course he or she isn't any less of a fool, hey are just a fool with training. As with most things in life I sometimes know what I should be doing or not doing and there are times even with this knowledge that I choose not to follow the right path or right way. I have been a Scout for a very long time and my working on my living the Scout Oath and Law is still very much a work in progress. I have been a Roman Catholic since I was baptized as a baby. Still I'm practicing. I wish I could put my hand on my heart and say that I always do the right thing and I always do things as they should be done, but I can't. We do have people in Scouting that might be serving in the wrong position? We have people who do think that they know everything and don't need or want any of the "Stuff" that seems to keep on coming from where ever this "Stuff" comes from. Some people new to Scouting seem to want to get rid of the old and move ahead with the new, while some want to have nothing to do with the new and keep things just as they were in whatever time they deem to be the best time. Most times I try to look at them all as being a clock that has stopped. If nothing else they are right twice a day. A lot of it for me comes down to respect. I might very well be in disagreement with people who don't agree with me and most times I tend to think that they are wrong and I'm in the right, but that's life!! Eamonn.

"Is this why the Methods aren't taught in any training course?" Ed you might want to look at the syllabus for Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training -It's in there!! Ea.